0:02

Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah. Rose.

0:18

Hello there. And thank you so very much for joining me today on the podcast. Wow, today’s episode, I am so excited to share with you. Now if you went back and listen to my update a couple months ago, now, you know that I don’t edit the interviews anymore. And so this is unedited raw footage, and I’m so excited to share it with you. So let me just start out the conversation by giving you a little bit of guidance as we get started. Today is a little different. For the most part on this podcast, I interview Christian wives, or even Christian intimacy experts and they give me insight about physical intimacy, spiritual intimacy, emotional intimacy in marriage. That’s what we talked about here, every now and then I have an experts who might not be of the Christian faith tradition. And yet they share very important insights that help us as Christians to live out our faith in, in every area that we need to be living it out. Right, every area of our lives is what I’m trying to say. So today, I really have been intrigued by a community of people that live out a lot of ideals that we as Christians also carry. And so in New York City, I see a lot of the Jewish community. It’s so there’s different sects that are more strict than others. And my guests today clarify that you’ll be able to hear, but it’s very evident in York City that you can see the differences of religions in in front of you. So one insight I want to give so so just to be clear, I have two observant Jews on the podcast today, a couple. And here’s what I think is pretty amazing about this conversation is it gives insight into the culture for which Jesus came, right. So a lot of times when I read some of Paul’s writings, it’s hard for me really to get my head around what is going on. Because we live in such a separated culture from that original Jewish culture that they were living within, right? Because Paul used to be Saul was an incredibly observant Jew. And so when he talks to, for example, Galatians, and I’ve just been reading Galatians and Ephesians. He’s talking to people that have this tradition in mind, they were saved by Jesus dying on the cross, because they understand the depth of their sin, the depths of how they didn’t do what God had intended them to do, because God is that holy, that righteous that completely other than us. And so I just want you to listen into Ilana and mortar highs, conversation today to get some insight into what truly, God desires us to live and be a part of, and why that’s the standard, that we by God’s grace sending Jesus Christ to die in the cross have been saved from because the truth is, if we understand how truly holy The God we serve the creator of the universe, how truly untouchable he is, how truly other how truly higher he is than us. There’s, there’s no humanly possible way that we could match that we could meet that we could approach that being. And so, like I said, Ilana and more, I have amazing insights that I think, help us understand our God and what He deserves, and why we desperately need Jesus blood to give us a path to God because He is that holy. I’m going to give a couple more clarifying thoughts after after the interview. So stay on for that because I do want to again, put it in the perspective of Christianity of the way that we’re walking and living. But again, I do believe that there’s something incredibly valuable that we can pick up from from giving your and and respecting and understanding the Jewish faith

4:56

Hi, delight your marriage listener. Thank you so much for joining me Today I am really excited. I’m joined with Ilana Dolman, and her husband, Mordecai Dolman as well. Welcome Elana. And Mordecai.

5:10

Welcome. Thank you. Yeah,

5:13

absolutely. Thank you so much for being here. I’m excited. I have wanted to really connect with you for a while feels like it’s been a maybe a couple of weeks or months that we’ve been in contact. So this is exciting to finally get together. So, first of all, would you go ahead and, you know, introduce yourselves and give a little insight about your family and what your day to day life looks like?

5:38

Sure. Well, I’m Ilana. And you know, we are been married for 29 years. And we have four children, ranging from 24, down to 13. And we live in observant, or I like to say observing, because you know, it’s a process. Orthodox Jewish lifestyle, we uphold the laws of the Torah to the best that we can. That’s the Old Testament. And, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s our focus. So our day to day life is like most people, you know, we work and we go to school, our kids go to school, and we have jobs, and we take care of our home, we have elderly parents, we have a community. But in the midst of all that, we are doing our best to uphold those commandments.

6:39

Hmm, yes. And that is, you know, one of the reasons I was really attracted to, to speak with you, and I found you online after, you know, my listeners know that I live in New York City. And so I often see the Hasidic Jewish community that is prevalent here, as well as Orthodox Judaism, obviously. And I’ve always just felt not only intrigued, but you know, it’s as Christians, it’s a lot of our heritage, it comes from, you know, that the Old Testament is a big part of our faith as well. So, so yeah, I’m so grateful that you’re here. And we can talk about this. And, you know, obviously, there are some differences in our faith. But I wonder, you know, because we do have that, that that common ground of the Torah, is there a scripture that has meant a lot to you, maybe about marriage, or your journey that you could share with us?

7:31

Um, I don’t have a particular one about marriage, per se. But I’ve always liked one that says it’s from Proverbs, but it says, it’s a tree of life to those that hold fast to it. And all of its supporters are happy. So it’s analogy between a tree of life and the Bible. And I just I like that my name means tree. So I kind of I have an affinity to that particular verse.

8:03

Yes. Oh, that’s wonderful. Yeah, there’s, and that’s wonderful. Go ahead. I

8:09

want to say my husband here he is actually a scribe. So he’s actually skilled and trained to write scripture in the proper way with the ink and all that. And so

8:24

that’s amazing. Wow, I would love to hear a little bit about that. Mordecai, can you can you share what that means to be a scribe?

8:30

Sure. So the Torah, which is the first five books of Moses, if it is going to be used in ritual purposes, and that means that used in the synagogue, the Torah, one portion of the Torah has read every week, so that by the end of an entire year, we have read the, the Torah from the beginning of in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, to before the eyes of Israel, which is the last three words of the Torah at the end of Deuteronomy, and it is read publicly. So the Torah has to be written, handwritten. There are actually 613 commandments in the Torah. The last commandment given to the Jewish people was the commandment to write the Torah. And it has written the way that it was given to Moses on Mount Sinai, every letter has to be written exactly the way it was shown. The has to be written on the parchment of a kosher animal. And you know, there are lots of laws that dictate how it is written in has to be exactly right. Because we don’t want to we change one letter we, you know, we can’t change, we cannot change the Torah.

9:37

Wow. Wow. That’s,

9:39

that’s amazing. Thank you for clarifying that. I’m sure that’s helpful for all of us to understand. Well, can you tell us a little bit I know that you just clicking through your website, we’ve got a wonderful blog that will tell our listeners how to get to but I know just a little bit about your story, but can you just, you know, Ilana, maybe maybe talk a little bit about your Your faith choices, and how you kind of came to where you are now.

10:04

Sure. Um, so I was raised as a traditional Jew. And we celebrated many of the holidays and we had Sabbath dinners, I went to synagogue went to Jewish school, but we weren’t necessarily what I would say observing. So, which is a whole nother level, almost another religion, I would say, we take it to another level. And so when we got married, we were both in that same kind of space, you know, but my husband here, he was really interested in really growing quickly and fastly to becoming more observant. And I was not at the time as very content, where I was. So it was a bit of a struggle for me to understand his passion and his knee, and also just the authenticity of what he wanted to do. And, and it took me quite a while, you know, it was just a matter of trying it out and realizing that it was really important to him. And then later on, it started to become more important to me. So you know, that that’s just the journey that I was on. And we actually took on a sect of Orthodoxy, which is hasit ism. And it’s, it’s even more, I would say, I don’t know if it’s not any more observing, but it just takes a little bit more seriously. But it also adds in this whole element of joy and love and passion, you know, into the learning and into the observance. So it’s not such an intellectual approach, it’s it becomes a spiritual approach, and not that someone who’s not Hasidic can’t be spiritual and have all that, but just as a group, they tend to be more spiritual.

11:56

Okay. Okay. Very nice. And I hear that you said it was before are called the eighth letter of the alphabet, the Hebrew alphabet is also in Siddiq. Is that right? Yes. The way you say it, okay. I’m gonna practice that.

12:12

Yeah. And also like the holiday Hanukkah, you know, that’s right. It’s not really a Hanukkah. I mean, there. There is a sound that, but but those particular words, use the Ha, ha, yeah.

12:27

Okay. All of our listeners are practicing that in their cars, or wherever they are the gym or whatever. Practice. Good. Okay, wonderful. Um, well, you know, you did write a book about marriage and this journey. And I know that, you know, you’ve got a lot of insights around marriage. And since this, specifically, his podcast is talking about that, I wonder if you could share, maybe just, you know, it’s hard to narrow it down, but maybe three major things that you’ve learned through your 29 year marriage? Sure, sure. So

12:57

I’ve learned so many things. Three, but I would say the first foremost that stands out, in my mind is commitment. And, and I don’t know that everybody goes into marriage committed, I think we kind of think we do you know, like, I don’t think anybody goes into it saying I’m not committed. But I think really taking on commitment means that, you know, there’s work to be done. And it’s not always about you, that if your focus is on yourself, and not that you should lose yourself, but you know, it’s very easy to become self absorbed. And, and all kinds of things can happen in marriage, somebody can, you know, go on a particular journey, or someone can get injured or, you know, and so I think that we don’t realize sometimes how hard that might be. So for me, just like changing absorbency was very, very challenging and wanting to stay committed through that was very challenging for me. But, you know, I decided I did want to be that kind of person, I did want to be somebody whose word was of honor, you know, honorable word. And so So I think that’s my foremost lesson. I think the other thing is that it is hard. And that is not supposed to be easy, and that you have two souls that come together and they’re meant to be together because you’re supposed to be working on those parts of yourself that aren’t necessarily finished that this other person kind of brings to light so I would say that that that is the next part is just you know, it’s supposed to be hard life is supposed to be hard. I don’t think we’re supposed to be on vacation here although we do enjoy going on vacation. No, yeah, that’s so good. It’s supposed to be hard work and and that’s how we grow. And then the last thing is not to lose yourself. As much as you have to focus on the other person. You have to remember your strengths and your needs and It’s easy to get lost in someone else’s journey. Whether it’s your children or your husband, or you know, as women, I think, yep.

15:10

Yep. That’s wonderful. Yeah,

15:12

I like that you putting it out, just to reiterate what you said, first of all commitment. And I think that’s so wise, because I agree with you that we think we’re committed, but, you know, push comes to shove, we start to see the the lacking and that commitment, day to day life, which I think is so true. And then the second one, you said, it’s hard. Life is hard. It’s not supposed to be easy. That’s really interesting. And I just so agree with that. And then the third, to not lose sight of yourself, and it’s easy to get lost in somebody else’s journey, which it kind of reiterates, you know, coming back to what is your journey? What is the path that you are supposed to be on? So I think that’s very, very true. Okay, well, then, you know, I wanted to, you know, really talk and spend, you know, a good amount of time on this next kind of question is, you know, something that really has intrigued me about the Jewish culture. And we’ve already kind of alluded to it is really the strict adherence to rules to commandments that God has given. And I wonder if you could give a little insight, and hopefully Mordecai also can share, you know why this is so important to the Jewish people?

16:31

Sure, I’ll let him go first on this one.

16:34

Okay, so, as the Torah says, in numerous places, the the Jews are the chosen people chosen, and it doesn’t mean necessarily to be better, but it is chosen to be different. And we were given the torah, not any other nation. And the Torah contains 613 commandments, it’s not contained 10. And when God who is absolute, and is real, give 613 commandments, the Bible makes it very clear, he does not change his mind. So when he says, for example, that we we not the rest of the world, but when we are not allowed to eat pork, he meant it, he meant it, then he means it now, for example, if the Torah says that we have to preserve the Sabbath, that, as it says in the Book of Leviticus, that you are, I’m sorry, in the book of Exodus, that you are not allowed to kindle a fire on the Sabbath day, he did not say that. It wasn’t written by a committee of men, it was written by God, and he meant it, and he means it today as well. So that means that we, for example, we are not allowed to lie or start a combustion engine on the Sabbath. So that also has incredible benefits and that Jews are thereby if you’re going to observe the Torah, are forced to live within a community, and that has incredible benefits as benefits of support and benefits of like minded people, and it keeps you insular to a certain degree, not that we are shining the rest of the world, but that we, we, we have our mission that God has chosen for us, and that we are to observe these commandments, and to then bring about the ultimate redemption, you know, God willing, should be very soon. And there is a mission that we were given. And part of that a main part of that is the adherence of the 613 commandments.

18:22

I like to also think of it as sort of the Navy SEALs. So and I’ve said to my husband before, like, I don’t want to be in the army, you know. And, and here, I don’t want to be on the front lines, like let someone else take this job. But you know, for whatever reason, we were born this way. And there are people who convert, you know, who believe their souls were also they are and for whatever reason, they’ve had to go through some other journey. But, you know, that is that is sort of like what the way we see it is just like you would want your Navy SEALs to be of a certain caliber and a certain nature and taking on much more than necessarily the citizens that they’re protecting. So we sit with, that’s how we see it, and those commandments take us also above nature. So for example, we may feel like eating, you know, a glass of milk with a hamburger, they kind of go together, you know, it’s like something you’d want to have. But our commandments say, like you have to go above nature and so we’re always kind of our physical bodies are always pulling us down, you know, toward the earth. We just like we were very in tune with our physical selves because that we have a physical body, but we’re really spiritual beings. And so our struggle always in our and in our commandments, are almost always taking us beyond what feels natural and easy. So it’s elevating the mundane and elevating the physical. That’s what the Sabbath does. It takes a regular day, and we take it up a notch. I take it up a few notches. And so those what that is what those commandments do for us also is, and they create a relationship with the Creator. So it’s, you know, it’s kind of like why do we have to do all these things? Why does God need us to do all these things he didn’t, he doesn’t need us to, okay. It’s more of these things. These commandments actually create a closeness, and an awareness and a relationship.

20:28

And we have commandments, a lot more commandments that most people are shocked to find out that there’s 613 commandments in the Torah. And they’ll tell me, but there’s only 10 I’m like, Well, you know, everyone knows the commandment to keep kosher. That’s not in the 10. So there’s many, many, many others. And each one of these commandments, is they govern every aspect of life. And we as Jews, that observing Jews have to have constant awareness of God. That’s one of the the side effects if it’s not even the main goal. For example, we as Jews cannot just wear any clothes that we want. There are laws of modesty, there are laws of which fibers can be, can be sewn together, the tour makes it very clear that we’re not allowed to sew wool and Lennon together and are not allowed to wear clothing that have those sewn together. So why the reason is not given. In fact, in the Torah, there’s many there’s three different ways of saying the word law. And if you were to, if you were to not every time does the Torah say which word it’s using when it gives a commandment. But in the ones that they do, if you were to list all the times it says the word mish pot, which means law, or ordinance, and then if you take every time that the Torah says the word HK, there’s that eighth letter again, and you list them, which which is translated a statute, whatever, what’s the difference? Something very obvious occurs. All the Misha team that’s the plural are laws that are logical laws between man and man, laws of moral nature. And they’re easily recognize that most of most civilized societies have these kinds of laws. But the laws that are called a HK are laws that have no logical explanation, for example, eating food, we don’t say that there’s nowhere do we say that it’s more healthy, we say that we are commanded to think about God, before we put anything in, in our, in our mouth, the wool and linen, we have to think about God, before we get dressed all the very mundane things that we do in life, we have to think about God to create a god awareness. And that then leads to behavior and connection to the creator of the universe.

22:47

So very good, I’m so glad that you went into that, because that gives me so much more insight, and really helps me to understand this even more. So that’s wonderful. And that kind of leads into the next question I wanted to talk about now you did talk about the Jewish community, that you really have to live within to keep these commandments. But as you know, we all live within a larger society. And as much as you keep yourself separate, can’t avoid things like billboards and advertisements, and just what other people are wearing and talking about. And so I’m interested, especially as it relates to our audience, of how you help yourselves, and help your children to learn how to keep your thoughts pure. And, you know, and observing, I guess observing is not the right word, I mean, but an awareness of God and what He desires of your your thought life as well.

23:53

Sure. You know, that’s not an easy question to answer, right? Because it’s not an easy task. And there are communities where, like up in New York, certain areas and certain parts of Israel, where they are very isolated, and there you will not see those billboards, and they do not have the same newspapers, and they, they very much guard their eyes, they don’t have any electronics in their homes. And I’m not saying it’s 100% because, you know, we’re human beings, but they definitely have a lower incidence of impurity. So, but I would say, you know, it is a struggle for everybody, for us for people we know, because our kids are out there, were out there and there are signs and you know, even like PG 13 movies we find are no longer appropriate. So it’s it’s very challenging. For us we we have filters on our computer, like we have our entire house filtered, okay, so even our phones, everything has to go through a filter. Yet we can’t filter what they see outside when they step outside the door. You know, and and for sure they see people dressed modestly. And you know, and we try to help them to understand that because somebody is dressed in modestly doesn’t necessarily mean they are an immodest person or human being, you know, they have fantastic qualities, and everybody’s on a different journey. And, and everybody’s trying to figure life out and, and, and figure things out, so not to judge anybody else, but for ourselves, for them to be aware of how they dress, and how they think. And I tried to have a lot of conversations with them about having a relationship with God. And so and where do you want your head and you know, and for some of my children, it’s easier than others, you know, they’re all different. So

25:45

I will say also, that one of the main goals of parenting is to preserve the innocence. And we live in a in a in a culture today where things are just thrown at children at such young ages. You know, they said that there was a study done a couple years ago, that said that found out that it what age does the average American Girl and we’re talking about the blue eyed blond haired cheerleader that needs to she is she exposed to her first. And I mean, the hardcore, the worst imaginable. Pornog. So three years ago, the study came out, and the age was a absolutely ridiculous 12. Now that they did the study again, and now it is 1010 years old, so And the thing is, you they can be in a home room, and the kid next to them has, has a smartphone and shows them the video and things like that. So it’s it’s a very, very serious issue. So we are giving just a little anecdotal story within the laws, people are very, as one example, very, into being kosher. And is your home kosher enough? And you know, can you eat in my Can I eat in your house, because I didn’t need to make sure that your standards have been kosher is high enough. So someone a kid, in my, the time 12 year old class invited him to come for the Sabbath, and the person started assuring me that their their cost route, which is kosher, their kosher laws are so strict, and they own the this type of meat and everything. And that’s me, but I have a couple of questions. And it doesn’t have anything to do with that, because I know who you are. I said, I have two questions before they can come first. Do you have any weapons in the house? And the person was kind of shocked? And I said, Well, actually we do. And I said, Well, are they and they said Are they accessible? And they said no, they’re they’re locked up in a cabinet. And and I actually have been trained to teach classes and how to in safety and things like that as Okay. Does your son have access to the cabinet? And they said, no, okay, fine. Okay, great. So then I said, Do you have internet in the house? He said, Yes. He said, one of my son’s is homeschooled. He does it all on the internet. Okay. I said, Do you have a filter on the internet? And he started seeing you mean parental controls? I said, No, a filter? Do you have a on your internet? And he kind of waffled back and forth? And he said, and he finally said, No, I said, thank you very much for the invitation, but they will not be coming. Because a gun sitting on the on the main is not the same. But again, some range and table and unfiltered internet are both things that we’re not going to allow our child to come into your house as much as we may, you know, like you and want to have a relationship and things like that. So we, you know, you have to do you have to set the standards, and it is a requirement of a Jewish home to have a filter on the internet. Now, not? Not everybody does. But it really is a requirement. Yeah. The internet is incredibly holy, you know, and you’re saying what I said, realize that every book of the Hebrew Bible is online at the touch of a finger of the commentaries is do so much incredibly good stuff on the internet. But just to the degree that there are good things on the internet, there is just as much bad if not worse. So it has to be monitored, and it has to be taken very seriously that it is very much a threat, and is very serious. So we you know, we teach that to our children, and we approach it that way. Obviously, we cannot filter everything, you know, television today is completely inappropriate, you know, we would not allow television in our house. We do not have cable television or anything like that. So

29:50

but that aside from those from that sort of structure, there also has to be this really unconditional love in the home. And because it’s the end of the day, you know, there really has to be this balance between rules and love. Because without that, you know it, you have to create a well person that wants to embrace these things, you know, and he’s not afraid and not intimidated. And, and, you know, that’s just parenting and it’s not easy, and it’s not hard and we don’t judge other people for whatever challenges they face, you know, because it’s a challenge. It’s yeah.

30:32

Yeah, no, that’s it’s very, very true. Um, and, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, filters and pornography and just, you know, there’s so many wise actions parents can take to protect their children and I appreciate those those insights. One thought that kind of came out of what you had said mortar high is about is about sorry, I get distracted if I said your name, right. Was that okay? Thank you.

31:06

It’s mortify like in the book of Esther. The Book of Esther. Is, is Esther’s cousin is more to high,

31:16

right? Uh, huh. Yep. Yep. Yep. Very nice. Okay, so, but I, I’m, I’m afraid that I, if I say it again, I might, I might mess up my, my good streak. So I’m gonna wait. So, but my question is just about. So now I lost it, but I’ll come back to it. So here’s the thought that I do want to, you know, ask you is even adults like we, we do try to shield our kids. And in in a very, almost, you know, trying to limit their access and that kind of thing. But what about adults when we’ve gotten to it, society and whatever? Thoughts that kind of invade. I just wonder, you know, how do you talk about that? I did really love that Elana mentioned. It’s hard. Because that’s yeah, that’s the fight, isn’t it? Yeah. But yeah, what

32:07

are their thoughts? It is hard. And, you know, I find that the the antidote to that is, is learning. And so we have books all through our home, you know, one of my twins since he was littles always just hold books off the shelf, you know, he naturally, you know, migrates to wanting to learn the Torah and wanting to read those books, and the others, we have to kind of get it in different ways, you know, but, and also, we’ve journeyed along this path. So, you know, it’s not like, we started like this, some families do start like this, and so that we feel like, Wow, they’re so lucky, they’re already ahead of the curve, you know, when their kids are born, you know, so our kids are sort of watched us kind of journeying and, and they have their own journeys, but, and I think learning is the key. And my husband always told me this when, when I was when we were first married, like you need to learn need to learn, and I’m like, What do I need to learn? You know, like, what, what are you talking about, like, I’m reading books out there. And I do also enjoy, I kind of have a passion for sort of the more psychological, you know, wellness books, also. But there’s plenty of those from a Jewish perspective or religious perspective. And I think learning there’s a great book that I just finished called positive vision. And it’s on we have different books cites that particular size called artscroll. And positive vision, you know, starts with this idea of holiness. And it goes through the idea of things coming before our eyes and how important our eyes are. And then it goes, you know, and it goes through the whole book and it’s kind of a day to day reading, where every day you’re getting a different lesson about holiness and about pure, you know, keeping pure things in front of your eyes. And so you know, it’s learning but there’s Learning Everywhere available, you know, online at our synagogue, you know, there’s women’s classes men’s classes, kids classes, it’s just you know, I think that learning in other words that fills your brain that fills your mind it feels your conscience starts to build a conscience that’s it’s pure and more holy. And and my gosh, you know, it is so easy to break it down as soon as you see the first thing that’s not that’s not pure holy, but really that is the medicine and

34:29

the other thing too is that the standards are are the same for the adults and the children like we would not allow our kids to you know, to watch an R rated movie so we don’t watch R rated movies either. So we can’t be you know, hypocritical we have we don’t it’s not that we have a filter on their internet and we don’t have a filter on our internet. The like I said, we we have through the router that even if you were to come into our house and want to get on your smartphone, you would have to access our router which would be heavily filtered. Then that’s Just the way we have like, once again, you know, there’s many, many dangers outside and we’re not saying we’re never gonna leave our house. But we, you have to build up a defense and it starts in the home,

35:11

huh? Yep, yep, yep. Yep, that’s helpful.

35:16

Um, so then, so I guess, and we’ve kind of touched on it a little bit. But, of course, we all make mistakes and kind of go outside of the guidance that we, you know, diligently follow. And I, and especially, you know, in the Jewish faith diligently following these commandments, I’m interested in how do you guide maybe your children that have made some poor choices or that kind of thing? How would you guide them back to remaining pure in their thought life and that kind of for sure

35:47

that that is, you know, we have something called to Shiva, which is reach is the Hebrew word that means to return. And we believe everybody has the ability to mess up, and they have the ability to return. And sometimes that returning can be a long process, it can be a process of years, you know, it could be a lifetime. But everyone I believe, you know, it’s interesting when a Jewish boy or girl turns for boys 13 to girl 12, they take on the the commandments, but I really believe that everybody at some point in their life, whether they’ve had a Bar Mitzvah or not, every Jewish person has to at some point, say, Okay, I’m buying into this, you know, I’m on board. And, and that really is that active to Shiva. Now, we were always doing tissue that every day, and in actually the holiday of the Day of Atonement, which is called Yom Kippur war, that’s a day where we were annually doing to Shiva, where we fast for 26 hours, no food, no water, that fastest once again, is taking us above physical desires. And, you know, it’s this idea of coming back to God, and he’s there, and he wants us and He wants us to come back, he doesn’t want us to keep messing up, we tell this to our children, you know, if you mess up, you know, we will still love you, no matter what you do, you are unconditionally loved. And we are almost like the parable for God, you know, if you look at the 10 commandments, and the two tablets, you know, Honoring Your Parents, is, is right in there, you know, on the side with all the commandments that have to do with God. And the question is why and it’s like, we are like the representative. So we tell our children, you will be unconditionally loved, you know, and we hope their mistakes are not so severe. But if they are, you know, we want them to know that you can, you can return back, this is the place, and you know, and we’ve seen each of them in different places and ourselves to you know, and our friends, and we just, we try our best that, you know, it’s all we can do is to keep learning and to remember that there is someone out there a eternal being that loves us. And, you know, one time I was listening to some love songs driving down the car, because I you know, I’m a 6070s child. And I love love songs and Jewish music, but I do have that and but my kids really only listen to Jewish music, because that’s what they prefer, they really don’t like my music. But I remember one day, I was driving in the car, and I was listening to this love song. And all of a sudden, instead of having like, a man in that image, I you know, I had this image of, you know, or of God of having that conversation with God. And I remember just crying, you know, thinking like, wow, like, he talks to us in so many different ways. But it’s this idea that he wants us back and those rules are put there to help us have that relationship

38:53

will disqualify one thing that she said that most people probably don’t know. But the there are 10 commandments that were brought down on two tablets. I’ve been they’ve been brought down on one tablet. So there has to be a reason. And there’s not one letter in the Torah that is extra. So every letter has meaning. So the fact that that happened, it has to mean something. So our commentators, you know, all the way back from Mount Sinai have said, What does that mean? So the first five are categorized as between man and God. And if you look at them, you know, I am the Lord your God, and you shall not take my name in vain things like that, but honoring your mother and father was also on that side. And then the next side, which are obviously more between man and man, you know, do not kill, do not steal, do not cover things like that. So I just wanted to kind of give the explanation of what she just said.

39:43

Yeah, no, that’s very helpful. I didn’t know that. I’ve heard the first five and second five analogy, but I’ve never heard about the, the idea that as parents, we’re, we’re modeling that interaction with God. It’s very, very enlightening. And so we talked a little bit about money. St before. But I’m interested, of course, that’s such a high value in the Jewish community. And there’s lots of clarifications about how specifically you mentioned some of the fabrics and whatnot, but also how a woman is permitted to dress and how she should dress herself and that kind of thing. What insights can you share, maybe you can share some of the those requirements, but then also, the reasons behind them and how they why modesty is so vital.

40:31

And let me just add something very, very important is that the laws of modesty do not apply to just women, they are equally 100% equally applicable to men and women. And a lot of people don’t realize that because generally, you know, it seems like the women or the men also are very much 100%. required to, to, to be modest. So

40:55

so first of all men are required if they are obligated to respect women, okay? It’s not that we are trying to hide ourselves, because there are these wild savage beasts out there, you know, there are, you know, and I think that for sure, it can incite people based on the way you dress. At the end of the day, though, that’s their responsibility. But I think the way and this has been a struggle for me too, because I grew up wearing shorts and T shirts, and those kinds of things. And, and I don’t want again, I don’t judge people who choose to dress that way. But in order to create that relationship, you know, you’re really supposed to a woman should feel like a queen, the queen of her home. And if you think about, you know, the Queen, you know, the royal family, you would never see them dressed and T shirts and shorts running around, you know, they’re always dressed a certain way. And if you were to stand before a king, you know, how would you be dressed? How would you present yourself, you know, surely you wouldn’t come in, in a bikini. So we’re standing before standing before the King 24/7, you know, and look, I struggle with this too, because, you know, the, the nature of our of our physical bodies is we want to be comfortable. And, and I tend to like a lot of color. And there’s nothing wrong with that. You know, but at the same time, you know, there are some rules that have been put in place to cover your collarbone to cover your elbows, to cover your knees, and even like your feet, you know, but at the same time, there’s there’s, there’s different communities that have even more stricter standards. For many communities, they like for women to have on some kind of stockings or things like that. Some of them take it even to another degree. And they have darker stockings. Some places, you know, everywhere women cover their hair, that’s actually even a it’s in its Winford. In the in the it’s one of the 613 commandments, that married women, sorry. Oh, I see. But, and but there’s different ways you can do it in different communities have different standards for that. So for some communities, they wear scarves or head coverings of that nature, some wear wigs, some wear wigs with another little head covering on top so that you don’t think it’s just somebody whose natural hair. But it’s really so that your own hair is really only shown for you know, you really you expose yourself when your own hair is shown. And it’s very flattering. So that’s really something you reserved for your husband. So those are some of the rules have been put into place in order to preserve this whole idea of dressing modestly. But once again, it’s not just about dress, it’s about behavior. It’s about your attitude. And it doesn’t mean you’re you are so humbled that you don’t speak well of yourself. It just means that you have a sort of a sense of humility and a sense of awe. And it’s all encompassing, it’s the way you talk. It’s the way you behave. It’s the way you act. It’s the way you dress. So it’s all part of this. You know, relationship building. Mm hmm.

44:18

That’s very interesting. Yeah. Very, very interesting.

44:21

And it’s very challenging for teenagers. It just I can imagine, very, very challenging. So if you tell and look, part of the nature of being a teenager is rebellion. If you tell them your skirt needs to be below the knee, you can guarantee it’s gonna be above the knee. So you know, I’ve seen religious girls schools where they say looks got to be down at the ankle because they know it’s

44:43

right, exactly. Then it turns into mid calf by the end of the day.

44:46

I and my daughter actually was at a school where they you know, they had to have their skirt below the knee and they had in the office this long skirt. So if you didn’t come dressed properly, you had been on that long skirt. She called it the skirt of shame. Oh no, call us sometimes and she was like, I had to wear the skirt of shame.

45:08

You have to bring me something or you have to come in laws in effect. And you didn’t you can

45:18

cry. But she you know, she

45:20

has a chapter in her book called the skirt of the the same with all sold out or something like they ran out of skirts of shame if this was so

45:28

funny, we also tried to and

45:30

they would get them at thrift stores. I mean, these were not stylish, I mean, they.

45:36

But we also try to you know, embrace her, who she is as a woman and, and her creative side. And you know, now she’s an adult, she has to choose how she wants to dress, it’s really a choice. And, you know, I think she still struggles with it a little bit. And she’s into film and media, and she’s really out there in the world. And, but, you know, we talk a lot and and she always comes back and says, you know, I’m struggling with this, what do you think I should do? And and that’s healthy. You know, if she wasn’t struggling at all, I would say there’s something wrong.

46:12

Ah, that’s good.

46:14

Yeah, that’s really good. And, you know, my, my question earlier, more than I came back, so Okay, here it is. It’s about, you know, something that both of you have, I’m sure, lots of insights about, but I think it’s easy to get into. And I know there’s a scripture in I believe it’s proverbs that talks about the something like the fear, that’s the fear of man is a snare. And, and so, you know, we all struggle with this idea of wanting approval from others and this kind of thing. I just wonder, you know, how has the Jewish community but also your internal, maybe struggle with that? How have you elevated the fear of God above the fear of man,

46:57

right, so we in, in an ideal world, we would love to say that we have accomplished that is still unfortunately, people, most people fear man more than they fear God. And to a certain degree, one of the things that has happened, say within more some of the more insular communities, and I’m not saying this to be as a derogatory thing, but everybody’s trying to say, two out stringency the other person. So then some of these communities have become like, Okay, we keep raising the bar to this level. So therefore, if I’m going to be part of that community, I have to, you know, raise the bar to that level. So like, for example, in the, in a very, very Orthodox communities in the, say, the 60s, and the 70s, women were much more color. But if you go to places like Borough Park and Williamsburg, you won’t see women wearing any colors. And it’s not that it’s not allowed, it’s you can be very modest, you know, not to wear flashy, bright red, or, you know, whatever, but you can, and in, in the fear of man, you know, to certain degree has made a lot of stringencies, you know, place, and that is happening within certain communities, because people, but ideally, the focus should always be that it is for the sake of heaven. And in Hebrew says, the shame, shame line, if your actions are for the sake of heaven, and you’re doing it for the right. Intention, then that that’s, that’s what you have to keep in mind, am I doing this? Because I feel like I have to be accepted by a certain community or whatever, or am I doing this because I have the fear of fear of Heaven. So that’s a struggle to

48:40

be more human. And as an as a woman, and none of my family is observant. So and I love my family, and some families, it breaks them apart, honestly. Because they don’t understand why can’t you eat my food? Or why can’t you know, and it becomes, even though they’re Jewish, they don’t understand this strictness. And, but in my family, they’ve been very supportive and understanding. At the same time, like I love them, and sometimes I want to do things with them. And I miss out and I, and I have this internal struggle, you know, like, I want to be with those people, you know, but I can’t and I and I had a friend tell me the other day, we’re coming up tonight on the Sabbath, which is leading into a two day holiday, which is the holiday called shabu up which is where we received the Torah. And it’s a very significant holiday, but it’s it’s like three days of some people would see it as restrictions, but it’s there are certain, you know, guidelines around observing this three day event. So I had a friend tell me her husband was like, I can’t do this. It’s too long, three days, like, you know, it’s too much and then he was like, but I’m gonna do it. You know, I’m gonna do it. You know? So I think everybody has the struggles of like, just kind of wanting to relax and chill and just do it. Whatever you want to do, and really, that was my mindset for a long time,

50:04

I like CEOs are not told they can just go and chill and relax. They have just, you know, they have to be. Yeah, right. Right. Mm hmm. But the, just to say little thing about the holiday is that we left Egypt, on how at the beginning of the holiday of Passover, on the seventh day of Passover, which is also considered a holy day, which means we can we’re not allowed to do any creative work, not allowed to. A lot of the laws of the Sabbath, you know, are also applicable. That was the day that the sea split. And that’s why in the Torah, the seventh day of Passover is considered a holy day. And then we wander through the desert. And then on the the 40/44 day, we arrived, it says it says on the first day of the month of see Vaughn, okay, so that just that was actually Tuesday of this week, was when we arrived at the mountain of Sinai. And then on the sixth of six days later, we had the revelation of receiving the the Torah and hearing the Word of God directly, 3 million people heard God directly speak and experience the, the giving of the Torah. And you know, we don’t have a tradition that you know, so and so said something and then you know, if you believe him, great, if not, no, we believe, you know, three, we’re the only religion that has 3 million people claim that 3 million people sat and watched the revelation at Sinai. And that’s what that that occurs. And that is, the Feast of Weeks is what it’s called in, in Hebrew, because an English I’m sorry, is it is 50 days after we left Egypt, and there was a seven, day seven week seven, seven day period, seven week period that led between leaving of Egypt and receiving the Torah. And then it’s a very significant holiday. And it also has the restrictions of a Sabbath. So we’re going from Sabbath directly into that holiday, because that’s just the way the calendar worked out this year. So it ends up being a type of Marathon holiday. Gotcha.

52:06

Yep, yep, yep. No, that’s it. And it’s so clear, it’s so wonderful to have both of you on because it’s clear, there’s, there’s so much depth of insight into each of these commandments that I appreciate you bring to the table more Hi, I want to wrap up this conversation, just if you could give one piece of advice that you would want to share of how to remain that purity of thought, again, I really love that insight that you shared about as though you were standing before the King 24/7. But if you had one thought that would support our listeners in in remaining pure, what would what would you encourage

52:45

I mean, I would say to remember that and it’s easy to forget it to remember that we are physical, we’re spiritual beings having a physical experience or not. And I didn’t make that quote up. Because we’re not physical beings having these spiritual experiences, we really are spiritual beings going through this world for some reason to get us to the next place. And if we keep that in mind that this is not forever, you know, I think it helps you kind of put things in perspective that, you know, someday we have to answer to ourselves to a creator. And and we want to have that relationship when that time comes. So that would be what I keep in mind. Yeah.

53:37

Did you have a thought more of how you like to share as well,

53:40

I’ll also just reiterate that I, you know, that one of the goals of parenthood is to preserve the innocence as long as possible, and that the laws also are there not? The religion is not based on it’s an a kid’s religion, it’s a it’s a lifetime religion. And our experience with God is a lifetime thing. You know, there’s so many people they go through, you know, we went we, we belong to the church when the kids were little, but once the kids got bigger, we stopped going. I mean, that’s, that’s pervasive, and it’s also pervasive in the synagogue, that people you know, they want to have their kid have a Bar Mitzvah or whatnot, but the kids are growing up, you know, we don’t really have this negative. That’s not that’s not the case. The case is that the King is here every second of every day. And we are and we’re, it’s not a we’re gonna do this for this amount of time. But it’s it’s forever we want to have the relationship every minute of every day. And it is possible, but it takes it takes work

54:39

and and to tell people not to give up the fight.

54:43

Stray come back, right. There’s the whole process of it’s not Oh, my gosh, I I did something that I’m not supposed to do now it’s over. Nope. And it’s a it’s not it doesn’t work that way. Yeah. Yeah.

54:57

Wonderful. Okay. Well, I’m sure Sure, you know, again, you both have such wonderful insights. I know that Ilana, you have a website, could you share with us how to find you online and get a hold of your daughter? Sure.

55:11

So my website is married to a Yid yet is spelled y ID and.com. And that is the Yiddish word which means Jew. So I chose that because my husband was really leading us down this path of really being a Jew, you know, I always say there’s Jewish, which is kind of your sort of Jew, ah, ha, ha. But then there’s being a Jew, you know, and then that’s a process. But So the website is married to a yid.com. My book that I wrote is called a tale of two souls. And it’s really, it’s funny, and it’s insightful. I didn’t realize when I was writing, it was really a cathartic experience for me to be able to express, you know, my journey, and also to get some insight, but people have told me, it’s very meaningful for them to read it. So I’m glad for that. And I hope it helps people become closer to God, and, and to think about their lives. And it’s on Amazon. Okay, so that’s where it is.

56:17

Okay, well, I’ll

56:18

just wrap up this conversation that I’ll have all of this on the delight your marriage website, you can have the link so you’ll be able to see how to get directly to her website, and her book and that kind of thing. But thank you so much, Ilana. And what, uh, hi, I’m so happy that you were on with me today.

56:35

It was a pleasure, thank you as well for your time.

56:39

Absolutely. I just feel like on some of those aspects of the, the interviewer I just, you know, is furiously taking notes. And I think there’s just again, so much we can gain from and these insights can support and encourage our walk with Jesus. Again, to to reiterate, you know, when Paul talked to the church of Glacia, he basically said, You know, honestly, I was reading it just today, in the last couple days, I’ve been going through Galatians, Ephesians, and Philippians. I’m not even sure if it was in that order. But anyway, in one of those letters, Paul is talking about, if anyone can boast, I can boast because I have done X, Y, and Z correctly. I’ve got all these, you know, things that I’m doing correctly, but I see nothing. It basically he’s saying it, I’m sure those of you listening know this exact scripture and the phrasing I’m trying to get out. But he’s basically saying, but it’s truly nothing. I’m truly the worst of all the, all the people I’m writing to, because I can’t, I can’t measure up I can’t ultimately do it. And so again, as Christians, that’s our hope is in Jesus Christ, because we can’t measure up. So I would love for you to understand more deeply the Jewish faith and the laws of the commandments that God gives, not as a way to try to become the level of purity that God asks of us, of His people, the Jewish people, but to become aware of the depth of, of gratitude, we should have, understanding the absolute depravity of our own souls, our own beings in connection to our Father God, and why Jesus had to come to bridge that immense gap, because I think, you know, and Mordecai is so wonderful, with all the, you know, understanding behind it. I think it’s just so much, you know, higher and bigger than we could even imagine. And, you know, my little bit of insight is so, so, so, so, so dark, and, and dimmed and vague and low, in terms of the insight that’s needed, that God needs to give us. So, those are my again, my kind of encouragement as you ponder the stuff in your heart to understand to be inspired, to be excited about the journey ahead, that that God is is you know, asking you for your journey. What is it that he’s asking of you in your walk with Jesus? What what is it? How can you apply that to your life? And you know, I don’t want to leave you alone in this journey, right? Because obviously, we’ve had a lot of thoughts that probably are not necessarily in line with what you aspire to in your walk with Jesus right there’s there’s some things that you can tell like are are similar to the way that you want to be you know, thinking and following Jesus but at the same time, there’s also differences so I want you to be aware of that and and maybe if there’s concerns or thoughts that you have it, consider it talking to your pastor about it. Consider seeking things things out because Jesus does say in the Bible and might not be Jesus but it does say in the Bible, those who seek will find and those who knock the door will be open. So I believe that when you seek this stuff out, and as Ilana Mordecai made, so very helpful is to consider that this is a, this is temporary, you know, it says, In the New Testament, you know, we’re supposed to be in this world, not of it, right? This is temporary, we’re thinking about eternity, when we make these choices. So I hope that this conversation has been something that has encouraged you, it has challenged you is caused you to go to another depth in your consideration of the holy of this God that we we cannot truly know that he’s that much bigger, that much grander that much more. And, well, I could go on and on, but I’m gonna let you go. I love you. I’m praying for you. I pray that, you know, we talked a lot about purity of thought and redirecting thoughts and those kinds of things, the, you know, what is going to be important for your life and the way that you structure it and for your kids and that kind of thing to ensure that your thoughts are aligned with the way God wants you to be thinking. Alright, like I said, I’m gonna let you go. Talk to you next Tuesday.

1:01:19

I love you.

1:01:20

I’m praying for you. Bye.

1:01:25

Thanks for listening. If you’ve been blessed by this, why not share it? Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion.