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Lynn shares in this second half of her interview, about how she healed from the porn addiction of her husband. She says you can forgive an addict too quickly and she tells us what forgiveness really is. She talks about how God walked her through the most challenging time in her life and what changed in her as a result. They survived to 25 years of marriage and it’s become sweet. She also shares sexual intimacy tips that will help any wife…so listen in!

Learn more about Lynn at lynnmariecherry.com

What You Will Discover

  • How Lynn came to know God in a new way.
  • The chief 3 things central to their marriage of 25 years.
  • As a wife, own that you can enjoy sex for you, not just for him.
  • How not to talk about forgiveness too soon.

Tweetables

  • Forgiveness is about letting go of a better past.
  • Sometimes we would never choose to change unless we had that uncomfortable feeling of pain.
  • Own the fact that I enjoy sex and I want to enjoy sex.
  • In spite of the challenges we were able to stay steady.
  • God gets more glory out of redemption than if we never had the problem.
  • Why would you turn down a perfectly good orgasm? -Dr. Laura Schlessinger

Resources

Scriptures

  • I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the LORD In the land of the living. Psalms 27:13

 

Transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah. Rose.

0:19
Hi, there, thank you for joining me, I hope you’re having a good day, thank you for letting me be a part of it and welcoming me into your life. And I don’t take that lightly. I know that you’ve got plenty of things to do. But I do appreciate that you’re taking the time to gain some inspiration and some wisdom from my guests. And from this podcast, because God uses it, I believe to impact people, in their marriages, as their marriages are so important to him and what he wants us to do in this world, I do believe. So today, we’re in the second half of our interview with Lynn Marie cherry. And you know, she’s talking about just a really terrible difficult season of that even lasted years. And how God brought them through it, and where they are on the other side now. So if you haven’t listened to the first half that started last week, you can do that. But let’s dive in

1:34
Alright, so Lynne, you talked about last week, he the story of coming upon your husband, in the middle of the night watching pornography, and then going through four years of just drudgery and not experiencing joy in your marriage and in life in general, and, and then actually facing it and what your healing journey was like, and now I kind of want to know what, what happened after that. You know, what, what does your marriage look like now?

2:09
Well, I am so grateful to be able to say that my marriage is better than it’s ever been better than before, the truth of my husband’s addiction came out and better than I could have hoped for. I’m so grateful that we persevered through the challenge, and that we both engaged in recovery and and came out of that other side, I have a story that I think illustrates this. So well. In the middle of our recovery, my husband had a trip for work, and he wanted me to go with him. And I remember just thinking, I do not want to go anywhere alone with you right now. You know, we had at home, we had our two boys and we really try hard to, to not fight and not bring our issue out in front of our children. So if I went on this trip alone with him, we didn’t have the buffer of our children, like this could go every which way of rod, you know, it could be really bad. But but you know, I knew, I knew that I needed to go. And I appreciated that he wanted me to go. And so we went on that trip together. And just had ended up having a great time, met some old friends from college and enjoyed the conference that we were a part of, and and we made it through without any major incidents, or expense. So but then, so a few years after therapy when we’re doing well, and it was actually our 20th anniversary. So five years ago, we went to celebrate our anniversary and I remember feeling excited about this trip. Like this is a triumph and we’re gonna celebrate and we made it to 20 years we there were times where we thought we might not make it another year. So it was a big deal. And feeling really good about the trip. But literally on the flight. My husband, I started bothering him and he took his contact out he put his glasses on still not feeling any better. So the second day that we were at the resort, he he didn’t sleep at all the whole night he was in so much pain in his eye and we call the resort the hospital. We ended up having to go to a hospital in Mexico and we find out he has an ulcer on his cornea. Every four hours of our 20th anniversary trip we have to put two different kinds of medicine in his eye. We had to wear a big fluffy hat to Stay out of the sun and he couldn’t go in the water like, this really stinks. You know, when you’re celebrating your anniversary. It’s the Mexican Riviera. On top of that, the people who were taking care of our our boys, there was a total fallout with our oldest son and the people he was staying with. And so he was messaging us on Facebook, like this is horrible. He’d actually climbed out of their house in the middle of the night, was trying to get someone, his youth pastor to come pick him up like it was, it was a disaster. And so, you know, we have these major issues on the trip. And yet, beautifully, incredibly, we were able to stay steady. And in spite of the challenges, we we enjoyed that time together. And I remember thinking, Okay, we had the trip without incident that was so scary that we made it through and now we have this trip, we’re excited about this crazy stuff going on. And yet we made it through together and had such a good time, in spite of the difficulty. And I that was a real testimony to the work we had done in our marriage and the growth that we both had in our personal lives. And so yeah, it’s good. It’s good. Wow,

6:30
that’s yeah, that’s, that’s wild. I can imagine being on a trip and and hearing about your son being Oh, that must have been so anxiety provoking and worry seven. Oh, my gosh, it was a mess. Yeah, yeah. And then, like you said, staying steady. And in the midst. I mean, that’s, it’s powerful when your marriage is strong. And in the midst of the storm, you know, God uses that to help us to keep each other strong. It’s it’s, it’s amazing I.

7:06
And I remember at the end of that trip, just feeling so proud of us. Like we we really have done so much work and the skills that we have now enable us to face those storms? Yeah, that’s a good thing.

7:23
Yeah. Why would you say in terms of I mean, are there some examples that you can give of the skills that you’ve developed that maybe what they were like before and where you’ve developed now?

7:37
Yeah, you know, I think one of the one, one great thing we did have going for us was that we had made that commitment when we got married that, you know, nobody plans on worse, or better or for worse, we don’t plan on that. But we had made that commitment. And that commitment really did carry us through some of the difficulty that we faced in the beginning. But for a lot of US commitment can sort of mutate into resignation, where it sucks the life out of you, and you think I’m stuck here. And this is this is it. And so even though commitment was a good thing. I think recognizing that it’s not the same as resignation and thinking I’m stuck in this, this mess. Another great tool that came our way was hope. Just like I said in the previous episode, that when my husband began to see that there could be a life for him. Without pornography, hope really helped him to be able to do the work and to move forward and that recovery. So hope is huge. Hope for me seeing other people’s lives restored, other people’s marriages restored. I think that’s a really important part of recovery. And then one other thing is just believing in our ability to change. You know, I, I can get a little cynical. I know, I was feeling very jaded for a long time and thinking, you know, this is never going to change, or they will never change. Ah, this is terrible. But I went to a wedding early in our recovery. And I remember the beautiful bride walking down the aisle and thinking good luck with that, honey. Yeah. So really, really jaded. But I hear that, like, the great thing about God is that he’s he’s a redeemer. And that means we can exchange one thing for another and there’s there is change. One scripture that really was one of the first promises that I grabbed ahold of Psalm 20 seven, verse 13. It said, I would have just spared unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. And I remember thinking, Okay, this that I’m living in right now looks pretty bad. But I can choose to believe that there’s still goodness for me that God has goodness for my life, that he has goodness for my marriage, and that we don’t have to stay. God’s not asking me to stay stuck in this difficult, heart wrenching place, that God is challenging me to move through it and to move forward.

10:42
Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome. And that’s, that’s a wonderful verse that I’m so glad you haven’t memorized. I think that’s wise. I think I need to memorize that. I think that our listeners need to memorize that. Can you say it one more time?

10:58
Absolutely. I would have despaired actually, this is the New American Standard Bible, Psalm 27, verse 13, I would have despaired, unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.

11:17
I love that. I love that. I think, you know, the enemy wants us to despair. He wants us to despair about our marriage, he wants us to despair about what God’s doing in our lives, or what he’s not doing what we can’t see him doing. But, but that’s, that’s how God works as he wants us to be focused on seeing God’s goodness as is and where he is working, what he is doing. And you know, relating that back to your story. I’m sure there were so many times where you just, you know, wanted to give up and you thought that you weren’t gonna make it and, and you’ve shared that with us. What was your relationship with God, like, in the midst of this?

12:08
You know, I, it really transformed my relationship with God. When I look back on that journey, I think about CS Lewis, and I love the Chronicles of Narnia, during remember, in the very first or the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and the children are coming to meet Azlan and they ask if he’s safe. And Mr. Mrs. Beaver says, he’s no, he’s not safe. He’s not a tame lion. He’s not safe, but he is good. And that challenged my theology a little bit. I mean, I grew up with what can be known more as Christian karma. Like, if you do good, you get good if you do bad, you get that. So you know, and I was a good girl. So I expected only good yeah, fact that this trauma had come into my life, just it, it rocked my theology. Yeah. And really challenged me for a while. And yet, at the same time, I knew that, that God was my only hope. And even though I wasn’t really happy with him, I knew I couldn’t do anything but pray, I couldn’t, I had to still reach out to him for help, because I knew he was my help. And, you know, I came to know God as my Savior. Knowing, like, I need saving more than just that one time I raised my hand, like, I mean, saving a lot. There many days that I need a savior, knowing God as my Redeemer that, you know, and realizing that sometimes I think God gets more glory out of redemption, than the life that never has a problem. And knowing, you know, he really did exchange that pain, for purpose in my life and for my growth and maturity, and he really is a redeemer. So I think a lot about Hagar, you know, when Hagar was back in the Old Testament with Abraham and Sarah, and she really felt he faced a betrayal. She was betrayed by Sarah, she was betrayed by Abraham and Abraham, and she ran away. So God finds her in that place where she ran away. And she says something interesting that she came to know him in a new way, by a new name. He’s the God who sees me. And so I really, I look back at my recovery and think I came to know God in a new way. And by a new name, He is the God who restores my soul. He was very transformational. I love that.

15:08
Yeah. You know, it just reminds me of how how God cares more about our heart and our transformation than he does about our happiness. And our having a comfortable life. Right? It’s just, it’s just, it’s just the same as you know, when you’re, if you’re a good mother, you’re going to make sure your your child has challenges because they’re going to learn through those. But if you give them everything that they want, if you give them all that candy, they’re gonna have rotten teeth. It’s just the way it goes.

15:46
Yeah, life is bitter and sweet. And, you know, I love this sweet times. I love the candy. But you know, it’s the it’s the bitter times that bring appreciation. And that really brings growth and not CS Lewis says that about pain, like, sometimes we we would never choose to change, unless we have that uncomfortable feeling of pain.

16:13
Yeah. Yeah. Yep, it’s so true. So if you could mention, if you if you can dumb it down to the three things after 25 years of marriage, that have been central to your success in marriage.

16:36
Wow, okay, three things. Oh, my goodness. I think that probably one of the first things is that we both wanted to honor God. We both did the best we could to keep Christ at the center. And so having Christ at the center, I think he ultimately orchestrated us coming through that, because we were, we had to keep our eyes on Him. And so not having that, that relationship with God. And having Jesus first has definitely helped our marriage survive and thrive. So that’s a really big, big step. Yeah. This is a tough question. I think the second one would probably be a little bit like I mentioned, just faith, more than believing in change, and knowing that, without faith, it’s impossible to please God, and that having faith does please God, and that he sees that, and he responds to that. So believing and change, you know, I think when you’re facing a real challenge in your marriage, a lot of times we think we have two options, we can either stay here in this mess and be miserable for the rest of our lives. Or we can get a divorce. Yeah. And God offers this third option, if we’ll both embrace it, and that is we do the work. And we walk through this difficulty together. And sometimes you don’t see that, that third option, so just having faith. And then thirdly, success of my marriage. You know, I guess I would have to say, being humble enough, and taking the risk to forgive. And forgiveness is something I don’t talk about lightly. And I think a lot of times, people talk about it too soon. And when you’re dealing with sexual addiction, you can talk about forgiveness too soon. But I, I think knowing that forgiveness is, is not relinquishing myself to miss treatment. Forgiveness is all about letting go of ever having a better past. Forgiveness is about moving forward. So yeah, there you go.

19:29
So tell me you say that one more time. So forgiveness is about you said

19:37
for forgiveness is about letting go of ever having a better past.

19:43
And what does that mean? What do you mean by that?

19:48
I think forgiveness frees us to move forward into a new future. And when we keep holding on to unforgiveness, we are stuck in the past. If will no we can’t change what happened in the past. But when we forgive, and we let go of what happened in the past, and then we’re free to move forward.

20:12
That is so good. So and I love actually exactly how you said it. So forgiveness is about letting go of a better past. Right? So it’s almost like the feelings of that wasn’t fair, or I wish I hadn’t done well, I guess, I guess you’re letting go of someone else. So you’re forgiving. Okay. So you’re forgiving. So I should have had this or this is what was I deserved? Or they did this wrong to me, which are all justified feelings. And like you said, Yeah, we need to give that, you know, it’s due course in terms of it doesn’t need to happen immediately that you’re forgiving. Is that right?

20:56
Right. Yeah, I think I know, Dr. Milton Magnus, in his book talks about how you can forgive an addict too soon. And sometimes when an addict hears words of forgiveness, they think, Oh, we’re done. Yeah. And they can sort of abdicate the responsibility. They have to do the work of recovery. So, but and forgiveness is is a it’s an event and a process. Like it’s a decision that you make, I will choose to forgive out of obedience to God. But it’s also a bunch of little choices you have to keep making every time those memories flood back in or those feelings or the pain revisits you, you know, you choose to forgive again. Yeah.

21:46
choices you have to make over and over and over again. I love that. Yeah. It’s just a forgiving over and over. So if you’re comfortable, would you be willing to share some advice or tip about intimacy that maybe you wish someone let you in on earlier?

22:03
Yeah, I would. Um, one of the things I mentioned before was that I had bought into the lie that sex was for men. And that, you know, sex was my wifely duty. And it’s just something I had to do because my husband needed it. And, you know, totally taking all of the romance and the connection, the soul connection out of it. When you make it a duty. It’s horrible. I remember one day I was listening to the radio in my minivan, and Dr. Laura slushing her. I probably said that wrong. But, uh, Dr. Laura was on there. And she was the caller who called in and she’s like, I’m just so tired. My husband wants to have sex, but I’ve been with the kids all day. I remember Dr. Laura saying, why would you turn down a perfectly good orgasm? Like, best way to end your day? I remember thinking, right? Why would we turn down a perfectly good orgasm? I mean, why would anyone turn that down? Mm hmm. And just owning the fact that I enjoy sex and that God wants me to enjoy sex and that sex is for me. And that, if I will speak up, tell my husband what I like and what I need, and make sure that it’s good for me, then I’m gonna want to have more of it. I was really like, that was the lightbulb moment. Yeah, like, why would I turn that down? Mm hmm. And then the other thought is just a great thing that I learned in recovery. There was a study done and you’re probably familiar with it. But there’s a study done by Rosemary Bhasin, on the whole arousal desire mechanism. And so you know, most of us, we watch movies, and we see these images and what sex looks like is there’s desire, and then after that comes arousal, but that this desire is like the precursor to arousal. Well, in her research, she found that 30% of women only experienced desire after they’ve already been aroused. So for women who have been through betrayal, that percentage is even higher. And this is where faith comes in, you know, to take that step of faith in intimacy. And know even when I don’t have desire, compelling me to have sex with my husband, believe that desire will come. And that somewhere in that experience, somewhere after arousal, desire will follow.

24:53
Yeah. Yeah, right. Yep. I think that’s so true. And I love that you said it’s step of faith, it’s so often in my marriage to where I’m like, Well, you know, I’ve got kind of a schedule in my head of like, well, it’s been a couple days, it’s time, we need to get this moving. And so, you know, and so I’ll take the first step, and I’ll seduce him. And, and by the time, you know, we’re getting started, I feel I feel all about it, you know, but it does take me starting and getting in, in action before my body necessarily responds,

25:31
right? Yeah.

25:33
I love that. That’s so true. So then, due to the specific marriage you’ve had, what opportunities have you had to serve or get to know God?

25:43
Well, I know that, for both my husband and I, when we were, you know, in the thick of it. This was back in 2000, or 2004, when we actually started recovery and and felt like no one was talking about pornography. And so we knew, I think both of us knew very early on in our recovery that we were tell our story that God was asking us to tell our story. And so we have both had opportunities together, as well as separately to speak to couples and men and women and share our story. Oh, my goodness, just last year, we got invited to speak at a men’s conference together. I was literally the only woman in the room. And I remember just thinking God, I don’t know what you’re up to here. But and and yet, it was such an honor. And it was so powerful just to be able to tell our story and feel like men were really wanting to hear what we had to say in wanting the help that we have to offer. Also, a couple years ago, I felt like I had to share how I made it through. And there were so many scriptures, and thoughts and stories that just carried me and helped me in this healing process. So I compiled them all together. And I wrote a devotional for women who are going through betrayal. It’s called to keep walking 40 days to hope and freedom after betrayal. And it really is, it just contains it’s a lot of Scripture, and a lot of my personal story, as well as reflection and response for women to kind of look back at their own story and see how they could move forward. Yeah. I thought someday I might want to write a book. I never thought about writing a book for women who are going through betrayal. So that was a little God’s surprise.

28:05
Yeah, right. Yeah, that’s awesome. And I’m sure that took a lot of courage to put your story out there, and you’re just Just what God’s done and and, and just be that support to others who need that. That’s so awesome. So you know, lastly, if you could go back to year one of your marriage and sit yourself down, what’s one piece of advice that you would give to you? Well,

28:37
I’d probably get my finger out. And you know, wave it a little bit in my face and say, girlfriend. Denial is not a long term strategy. You know, it can buy you some time. It can give you a little space to process, but it will cripple you. The longer you choose denial, the more it cripples, you, you know, I think, you know, my husband brought pornography into our marriage that brought several years of pain I stacked on top of that, like another eight years. So that’s what I told myself, I’d be like, just face it, and own it. And when you bring it out into the light, that’s when you can actually work on it and find your way to freedom.

29:29
Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s great. So then where can our audience find and connect with you then?

29:38
I would love for them to check out my book. Actually, it’s kind of Yeah, it’s tough to say that because it’s not really the book you want to need. Or those girls who are hurting in this area in their marriage and who have dealt with a betrayal or dealing with a betrayal. I really believe it’ll help them and it’s available on Amazon On, just keep walking 40 days to hope and freedom after betrayal. My website is Lynn Marie chery.com. I’m also on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. So I would love to connect with anyone. And it is my honor to encourage women and to help them find hope for the journey. And just to know, they’re not alone, and they don’t have to stay stuck. Yeah, another resource is a fare recovery.com. And I’m the video blogger there. So I have some video blogs they could watch. And there’s a lot of other wonderful free resources as well as great programs and courses there at that website.

30:46
Oh, that’s awesome. Okay, I’ll have that linked up on the show notes as well. Okay, well, then, thank you, this has been a wonderful conversation, and I’m sure it’s gonna help and encourage so many.

30:58
I’ll be praying for that. And I’m so blessed to be able to have this time with you.

31:08
I just love so much the verse that she mentioned. And I’m gonna say it again, saw Psalms 2713. I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. So I don’t know what you’re going through maybe in your marriage, maybe in something else. But I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord and the land of the living. I just encourage you today, do not despair, believe that you will see the goodness of the Lord. I just want to bless you today. Thank you for joining me, thank you for this time. And I hope that you’ve been encouraged that you walk away from this conversation with a little bit lighter, a little bit easier to go on, more inspired to live for the Lord every day, in every way of your marriage and every other part of your life. Thanks for joining me, I’ll talk to you next Tuesday. So join me. God bless you. I love you. We’ll talk next Tuesday.

32:28
Bye. Thanks for listening. If you’ve been blessed by this, why not share it? Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion.

38:57
Thanks for joining. If you’ve been inspired by this show, would you help spread the word? If you take a moment to review and subscribe others can find us more easily. Find out how to delight your marriage.com forward slash iTunes. Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion.