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When she found out he went to jail because he almost killed his father and was a diagnosed sociopath… a thought struck her: “I will trust him with the lives of my future children”.

 

There are so many amazing topics for this week’s podcast, I’m not sure which ones should I write here! Marie and I talk more in depth about her relationship with God and her relationship with her husband.

 

These are just some of the things we talk about:

• what life with a husband who is a sociopath looks like — and no, it’s not what you may think!
• the defining features of a sociopath and how they got a “psychological miracle”
• how her husband tried to kill his father and landed in jail
• her husband was a devout atheist until he started reading the Bible and now millions watch his Apologetics debates defending Christianity
• Marie was back to being a Christian after reading an Apologetics book
• how their complete honesty helped solidify their relationship
• how reading the Bible helps David in his daily life

 

Other topics that we talk about

• how sex should be treated as a spiritual bond and not just as a physical bonding between married couples
• how there’s no aspect of YOUR story cannot be touched by God’s grace
• how deeply and truly God’s love can transform and change our perspective about ourselves and our marriages

Marie serves as vice president for a non-profit organization to connect people affected by myotubular myopathy. You can find out more about the non-profit that connects families here at: www.mtm-cnm.org

 

You can watch David Wood’s videos here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy5H0uunC2qMk0iOF4SHKUw

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Also, if you’d like a free 1:1 Clarity Call with Belah u– a $500 value! She is offering that free to her audience–men or women. Here you will get insights into what’s blocking you from incredible intimacy in your marriage. Sign up for a time to speak to Belah at www.delightyourmarriage.com/call

 

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transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah. Rose.

0:21
All righty, welcome. Welcome. This is belah. Rose, have you listened to part one of Murray’s interview? If you haven’t, it’s phenomenal. So you won’t want to miss that. But today, oh my gosh, her husband’s actually a sociopath, not a joke. You need to hear the story. It is insane. So definitely, stay tuned before we dive into all the amazing insights that Marie shares and what their life looks like. And it’s just an incredible, incredible their story. I want to invite you to speak with me one on one really exciting by God’s grace, this is the 19th of the top 30 relationship podcast, I work with therapists who also work with marriages and I have coached with leaders in the marriage field and all these kinds of things, by God’s grace been able to transform their marriages, and I don’t want you to suffer anymore. And maybe this is your opportunity to get help and things transformed. Whether or not I think that I can help you, I’ll let you know. And if so that’s the catch is that I’m going to let you know what possibility I might have to be able to help you. But if not, it’s still a free 40 minute call with me, where you’re going to get a ton of clarity and value. So if that’s you and you feel like yeah, I want to figure out what’s blocking me for moving forward in my marriage and intimacy and playfulness and fierceness and sex and freedom and sex. I want to talk with you about that. It’s www dot delight your marriage.com/call ca LL and I look forward to talking to you. Okay, let’s dive in. This is going to be

2:06
awesome. Great, well, I want to backtrack a little bit, because we talked about, I think, you know, huge amazing, like what your life looks like now. I want to hear a bit more about your marriage. A bit more about David. I’ve got a lot of questions. So. So you said Okay, so this is, um, you mentioned that you guys have been married 17 years? Is that what you said? Yeah, we’re

2:53
coming up on our 17th anniversary. Congratulations. That’s so exciting. Yeah. Um,

3:00
can you tell me what’s unique about your relationship?

3:05
What’s unique? Oh, gosh. Well, I guess, um, I guess I just start off with that. He, you know, he has, he’s a sociopath. So he and had,

3:28
he doesn’t form emotional attachments, the way that other people do. And he isn’t able to empathize the way that the rest of us can, or he can’t empathize. Based on experience, he could try to empathize based on his observations of what is a normal reaction in certain situations and, and how to kind of respond in that, but he can’t emotionally empathize. So, um, I think that creates sort of an interesting puzzle and challenge and dynamic in our relationship. You know, I always tell people I don’t recommend like don’t go out and find Yeah, but um, yeah.

4:26
Your dating profile

4:33
but again, it was just, it wasn’t like I sought this out, but it was just how it happened and who God brought me to and how we fell in love. It was just happen. I mean, we did meet in college on the speech and debate team and we just enjoyed arguing so much. We decided

4:57
yeah, well, I was actually I was sort of a lapsed Catholic at the time, I had grown up very devout, and I lost my faith in college to a degree. I mean, I still would probably call myself a Christian, but maybe kind of believe something like, you know, there’s a God in the sense that somebody created this and started it all. And, you know, you know, maybe God is like the creative force in the universe, kind of something sort of like a new age perspective. When I joined the debate team, he was actually in a conversation with a Muslim at the time, who later became a really prominent Christian apologist Nabeel Qureshi. And so he, but he was a Muslim, when we all met on the debate team. So you’ve got me an agnostic, basically, David, a former atheist and Abele as a Muslim. And then we all get into this conversation about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And, you know, so you’ll be able to say, No, he didn’t rise to saying, Yes, he did. And I was saying, well, everybody can be right, because no one has that, you know, whatever you believe that leads you into being a good person. And, you know, early matter, right? He just focused on that. And we, we just started debating, and he was sharing apologetics books with me. And I was, I was just fascinated, because I’ve never really been exposed to that. And I had actually been taught that, like, you’re not supposed to use your intellect, because that’s the opposite of faith. And that was probably something that led me away from Christ. Because I was sort of, you know, an intellectual type, and and so telling me that that’s not a part of Christianity, then that’s a turn off. Sure. So David was kind of breaking that stereotype for me, because he’s really brilliant. And so, after a couple of weeks of this, I, I went to church with him and made a profession of faith. And wow, I really well actually what happened was, we were, it was right before final exams in the fall semester. And he was we were at his house, he was studying, and I was reading on apologetics. And all of a sudden, I start crying, and he says, what’s wrong. And I look at him and I say, I’m wrong. I am wrong. And what had happened was I just had this conviction of sin. And I just, it was as if I was looking at a mirror. And in my, in my bedroom was it when I was growing up, I had this mirror and I used to hang stuff on it and like put little stickers on it and little pictures and sashes and ways and Mardi Gras beads. And to the point where like, I could almost not even see myself when I looked in the mirror. And when I what had happened was I was sitting on his couch and I’m reading this book and just realizing that all these assumptions I had made were wrong. And that me just being so conceited about, Oh, I’m so smart. I know better than these Christians and then finding out that I’m really wrong. And it was it that mirror was in front of me again. And all those pieces were gone. And it was clear. And I was looking at myself. And I was wrong. I there’s something wrong with me. And and that was what made me cry. And so again, he didn’t really respond to that except to just hug me. He was just holding me while I was crying. And it was when we went to church the next day that I made the profession of faith and yeah, yeah,

8:41
I’m sure Okay, so it’s incredible. Um, do you remember what the book was? Do you remember by chance?

8:48
Um, I was reading. It was a couple of different books that I was reading at that time that I was reading case for faith by Lee Strobel and I was reading it was another book about the resurrection by Gary habra mass, and I was reading some books by William Lane Craig, reasonable faith. And I think the book that I was reading by Gary Habermas was called The Seven the sunrises. I don’t even know if that’s in print anymore. I was also reading more than a carpenter by Josh McDowell. So it was just yeah, those are the books that I was reading at that time.

9:29
Yeah. And just in case anyone isn’t aware apologetics. Can you just a quick definition of what that means? So

9:39
apologetics comes from the passage in First Peter 315 always prepared, be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks you for the reason for the hope that you have. And so, that reason is your apologia. And so apologetics is not apologizing for your faith as if you’re a Christian. You are providing the rational, the rationale behind why you’re a Christian. So for me, the aspect of apologetics that I found persuasive, what were a couple things, one was challenging the idea that the universe could just form on its own, that life could form on its own. And also, the fact that there’s just so much historicity behind Jesus’s resurrection. And so those two elements were really what caused me to, to look at myself and reevaluate how I’d been living and the assumptions I’ve been making. You know, I guess you could, I felt like I was a, you know, a good person, I, I did a lot of, you know, community service. And, um, and I used to donate blood and platelets. And, you know, as I was looking, you know, I volunteered at Operation Smile, like I said, and stuff like that. So I felt like, I’m a good person, you know, but I realized there’s something deeply, deeply wrong with me that there was just, you know, I guess is the only way to describe it is like a conviction of sin. But um, yeah, that’s what that’s what happened at that moment.

11:24
So it’s incredible. Oh, that’s just incredible.

11:27
Well, it’s funny, because sometimes people say, you know, that apologetics can’t really be used to save people. And I said, Well, I mean, for me, it really was a huge part of it. I mean, that’s how it kind of took away the excuses. I had it took away. It has humbled me, I guess you could say, yeah, absolutely. Posing, you know, my own inconsistencies and flaws.

11:54
Yeah, that’s wonderful. Absolutely. Okay, so. So tell me if you don’t mind, I heard David’s testimony a little bit. Would you mind sharing, kind of his, you know, his testimony of how he discovered he was a sociopath. And how that even happened?

12:15
Well, one, so when I joined the speech and debate team, David pretty much showed interest in me right away. Oh, I don’t blame him. So, um, and there’s like a funny story about when we, we went on this forensic, our speech and debate team was called forensics when we got a forensic strip, and probably save that for another day. But it’s, it’s, um, he ended up kissing me. And so the next day when well, when we got back from the trip, um, he was waiting for me after class, and I went to talk to him, and we sat down together, and he said, I want to tell you about myself. And, um, and then he, he shared with me, you know, his testimony. And before I go into it, what’s interesting is that my, my majors were in psychology and biology. Oh, so he starts telling me this story. And I’m just thinking to myself, this, that’s not possible because there’s no cure for what you’re talking about. And he was just talking about how like, when he grew up, he didn’t have emotional reactions, his little dog died. And, you know, his mom who hated the dog was crying, but he wasn’t crying. And, you know, people would die and he wouldn’t feel that effective. And then it was his best friend who died in like a hanggliding accident and, and he still didn’t cry. So then he started realizing, okay, maybe I didn’t cry about those other people because I wasn’t close to them. But this was my best friend who lived across the street. And then he started to realize that he was different. And he came to the conclusion that he was better evolved past emotions. He was more evolved than everybody else. So yeah, and unfortunately, that that led him to what he had read crime and punishment by Dostoyevsky. And he associated with risk calling cough who the character who kind of felt that he was the Superman or that Ubermensch and he had evolved past the regular morals of these average people. And so he decided he, David decided he was going to trans transgress like a fundamental moral value. And that was to try to kill his own dad. And thankfully, miraculously, his dad survived this because David attacked him with a hammer in the head and nothing was dead. But his his father was found and taken right away to the hospital and saved. So But David, eventually, he was, you know, convicted, and he went to jail for that. And while he was there, he met a Christian, who would argue about would defend his faith, because David would tease him and try to annoy him and upset him. And Randy was the same and even though he wasn’t, you know, super intelligent, or educated or anything like that, and he was he was a smart guy, but like, he was able to hold his own and annoyed David. I have to beat this guy somehow. And how old was David at this time? 1818. Yeah, so

16:20
this is when this happened with his father. He was Yeah.

16:23
1819 Yeah, right around them. And so eventually, he decided he was going to out fast, Randy, because he noticed that Randy would fast. He was like, why are you fasting? And Randy would say, Well, I’m, you know, Jesus fasted, and I’m doing it because I want to be closer to him. I’m, I’m hoping that I can discipline myself. So when I get out eventually that, you know, I can, you know, rise above my my impulses and lead a good life. And so, one day, I mean, one day one. At one time, Randy fasted for 40 days. Wow. And David knows that he fasted because he was giving David all this trays, and David was eating the extra food, you know, that he really was fasting. And I think towards the end, he started drinking juice. So I think for the first part of it, he was just water alone, and then eventually started drinking juice again. And so David asked him why he did it. He said, well, because Jesus fasted for 40 days. And so the David came up with this plan, he was gonna beat Randy and Jesus, and he was gonna last for 42 days. Yeah, so about like, a weekend, and he got put on suicide watch, because they thought he was trying to starve himself. Oh, yeah. And so while he’s in the cell, B, he had all these books that he was reading at the time, because he was just he all he could think about was, you know, killing blowing up churches. I mean, he was just totally crazy, insane, violent. That’s all he could think about. He said that somebody had shown him the ink blots, they tried to do the inkblot test on him. And he had said something like, Oh, I see bunny rabbits, and this and that. But he said, he was saying that to trick them, because he said, what he really saw were brains and blood and guts. That’s all he saw. So he, but he’s in this, this cell, this isolation cell, and the guard, who was giving him books, from his, you know, his, his play books, he had a bunch of like, New Age stuff, and this and that, and the guy was just tossing it aside. And then he found like, a Bible and some Bible studies. And so he said, Here, you can have these. So he looked. So that’s what David had to do in this room. He goes, I know, I’m going to study the Bible and find all the flaws in it. And then I get out, and I really got to beat Randy this time. And so he opens up, and he begins with the Gospel of John. And, you know, so what was funny was, so he’s sitting there, he’s still starving himself. And he’s reading things like, Well, he’ll hurt he was he said, he was like, having these thoughts. And it was as if the words of Scripture were speaking back to him because he would have this thought, like, wow, I’m, I’m starving, I’m really gonna starve to death in here. And then he would read, I’m the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry. And he would, uh, he would think, you know, um, he said he was starting to develop tunnel vision. And he was he was saying, probably once that tunnel closes, I’ll die and I’ll be gone. And then he reads the words of Jesus, I’m the resurrection in the life. He who believes me will live even if he dies. And and so he started and then he said that he started to think more clearly, more clearly than he had in his life. And he was, wow, he’s a pastor. and how they, he always had assumed that they made it made, made it all up. They’re trying to get rich and famous off this story. And then he finds out that’s not how they lived. They didn’t get rich and famous, they were persecuted. They were rejected, they were chased out of their towns, they were killed

20:20
for their testimony, and he thought to himself, wow, it’s one thing to, to lie, because of what you believe, I mean, to die because of what you believe. But it’s another thing to go to your death for what you say you saw, like, and if, you know, it’s not that, you know, as you know, we believe by faith on the testimony that we’ve heard, but they were the ones who saw it. And so they’re dying for what they saw, they said, we saw this. And, um, you know, there’s nothing to gain from it. So that really shook his assumptions and made him realize that this is really a historical puzzle to try to explain this away. And, you know, and as he was reading the Gospel of John, he was reading about Jesus. And he said, he wasn’t this kind of meek and mild, little baby in the manger, kind of Christmas song, Jesus, he was, he was strong, and he was wise. And he was passionate, and He overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple and, and metal with words and like, kick those people out, and they’re animals. And, you know, we’re cheating people in God’s house of prayer. And David realized that he liked Jesus. And he said, Jesus is like the best person who ever lived. And then, and he started thinking about himself, and he was like, I’m pretty much the worst person who’s ever lived. And he’s thinking about all the things that he’s done in his life. And then finally, you know, attacking his own dad and, and he says, I’m probably the worst person in the world right now. And he said, it was like, the first moment he had ever been humble. Wow. And so he said, you know, he decided to pray. And he remembers, you know, he never really prayed sincerely ever in his life. Like he had been taken to church by his grandmother, and you know, had to like repeat the prayers in the church, but he had never, but he said he would always like, just home in his head or something like that. He would never, he refused to pray. And so this is the first time you ever pray. And he said, he got down on his knees. And he said, You know, God, I don’t know if I’m going to believe in you tomorrow. But I believe in you right now. And I get choked up about this. And I’ve heard the story so many times, but I believe in you right now. And if you can do anything with me, then have at it because I can’t go on like this. And, you know, he asked Jesus to come into his heart. And after that one prayer, he said, that the world looked different to him, it was as if the colors were brighter. And something had dramatically changed in him.

23:29
And you know, and he’s lived differently ever since then. I mean, he’s, he’s one of, I mean, he’s, he’s a pain in the butt, but he’s one of the best men that I know.

23:50
And what was amazing to me was that he told me the story. Right? When I met him, you know, I, I’ve known him like a week, and he told me pretty much like the most horrible thing that he’s ever done. It is the most horrible thing he’s ever done. And he put it right out there right in front of me. You know, before trying to, you know, kind of catch my heart. I guess you could say like, you’re trying to captivate me and make me fall in love with them and then dump all this stuff on me. Yeah, I felt there was something so honest about that. And I remember having the weirdest thoughts. So he’s telling me this crazy story. And I had this like, clear thought that came into my mind, and it was, I trust this man with my future children. Oh my gosh, yeah. How could you have that thought? I don’t know. And I’m telling you, it goes against everything. I was taught and trained as a psychology student and everything and I was like, where did that come from? It was like, not of Me. It was, but it was like, it just, it just came into my mind. And, and part of that, I think, has to do with the fact that he was so honest, and I always say that I grew up kind of aware of the wickedness of respectable people, and just seeing people who are respected, and yet, knowing that they have this dark side. And so David was like the opposite of that, to me, he was kind of he was showing the worst that he had, you know, just right up front, like there was no deceiving me about it, there was no trying to, because I was thinking like, most, most people, when you start a relationship, you want to kind of present yourself as the best possible scenario, get the person hooked, and then you kind of let all the bad stuff come out. Right, but he just started off with that.

25:45
Yeah, that’s funny. And for me,

25:49
just because of what I kind of experienced growing up, that was like that, that engaged my trust that, Wow, that really won me over, I guess it was so different from what I’d seen about people concerned with face and appearance and the appearance of goodness, but, but this was, this was real, this was the real him that he was giving to me. And, and I guess you could say that that’s kind of defining of our relationship, even when we’re dating, that we were always real with each other. Remember, a friend at the time had said something about, they think when you get married, you’re supposed to bring out the best in each other. And being with David, I remember thinking, you bring out what’s real, and each other, and then you love each other through it. And so, because you’re going to bring out the best in each other, hopefully, but you’re also going to see the worst in each other, and you’re probably going to bring that out to conflict. But then learning to love each other through it again, is I guess it’s a, it’s like living out the grace that that we have as Christians and, and really, um, you know, shining Christ and to each other and to the world. Yes, I can do that. So it’s

27:17
just incredible. Absolutely. Well, you know, so, you said that there’s no cure to being a sociopath? What are like the defining features of it?

27:29
Well, just like the, um, not being able to, you know, form those same types of emotional attachments, um, you know, not really having emotional reactions that people normally have. So, yeah, you know, he could count on one hand, like, how many times he’s ever cried? Or, um, you know, and by crying, I mean, like, have tears in his eyes, like, I don’t even mean like sobbing, crying. And, yeah, so like, kind of an aversion to people in a way, but, um, you know,

28:06
he’s been diagnosed with

28:08
this officially. Yeah. So he was in a couple of months, while hospitals, I guess, after what happened. And yeah, they were I mean, they were even saying he was slightly schizophrenic. Yeah, I didn’t share some of that. But he did have like signs of paranoia. And I’m worried that like, people are reading his mind. And, you know, cats are ruling the world secretly that typo. It was just, it wasn’t as pervasive as the most severe cases. But, yeah, where he would kind of have the suspicions and this paranoia, and wow, yeah. And then there’s really no treatment for any of that. I mean, you can kind of suppress a little bit of it with meds. But, you know. So when he told me that story, I said, if this is true, I said, this is a psychological miracle. Wow. So we were talking about, you know, people coming back from the dead, but this was a psychological miracle. Because he wasn’t given medication. He wasn’t given any. Not that there even is something to fix this, but like, to just be that transformed. Wow. And so that was that was powerful for me. Yeah. So I remember when

29:23
he said, um, because I am so glad you went so deep into his story, because I think I didn’t even get that that depth. But I remember one thing he said was, when he’s out of the Word of God, he, like, he can he starts to get these violent thoughts again.

29:41
No, I think so. Initially, he thought that he was just completely healed. Yeah, um, but we, but, you know, as time went on, he realized that if he drifts away from, you know, I guess his spiritual life and And I’m praying and being close to God that he starts to be more paranoid and he starts to be more angry. And, you know, he’s never become violent, but where he becomes angry and just negative and depressed. And, yeah, so he, what he realized was that it’s not so much that God just kind of zap fixed him, but rather that God’s presence has really come into him and is sustaining him in a special way. And so he, he needs to be connected to God and he can’t separate. He can’t, you know, I remember there was a time where I would realize, I could almost tell instantly, like if he had been reading the Bible, because it would just see the difference in his personality. And, and it’s just more testimony to the power of God and His Word and prayer. That, yeah, that he’s that David, was that sensitive that it would change them that much. But yeah,

31:11
yeah. And so now his actual work is apologetics. So He’s great. He’s an academic. And he goes around and teaches this.

31:22
Yeah. Yes. Phenomenal, are nationally,

31:24
internationally? Wow.

31:27
Yeah. And, and going back to our friend who was a Muslim in college and appeal, he also became an international speaker worked with Ravi Zacharias International Ministries for years. Sadly, he passed away to stage for stomach cancer, and like, a teen. Yeah. But he was he wrote several books. He wrote, his testimony is called seeking Allah finding Jesus. And David features prominently in that book. I mentioned in there too. Oh, somebody was saying she was like, it was so weird, because he brings up and then we met Marie, and then suddenly you’re married and you have a baby. I was like, Well, yeah, did kind of happen quickly with David and I, because we were married, like within a year of meeting and then Lucian was nine months later. So

32:22
that takes us a good segue into our next topic. is so cool. Oh, my gosh, well, I’ll have that. A lot finding Jesus. Um, but yeah, that is our next topic. I did want to talk about intimacy. And I mean, I can only imagine so my husband is very tuned in emotionally and I cannot imagine not having that aspect of our relationship. Like how do you? How are you okay, without having him kind of be there empathetically for you?

32:59
I know, I know. It’s it. I even I don’t really know how to explain it. But I guess you could say, just because of how I grew up, um, I always was fairy, I guess, um, good at, I guess, coping with my emotions. And feeling confident in myself, I guess. Um, because, I mean, I kind of joke about it. But I think it’s true that I don’t think anybody else could be married to him. Because, you know, I mean, there is like, kind of this desire to have affirmation and understanding in a certain way. And somehow, I don’t need that from him. I mean, I like it, it and he, he does, like, comedy. So like, probably the best compliment from him, I’ll tell you. So one time I said something. Like, occasionally, he’ll say something really sweet. But um, you know, it’s just rare. It’s just not him, but like, but I treasure it when he does see it. so rare. So like, one time we were talking, and we’re talking about, like, you know, some celebrity couple that had broken up and he was like, yes, they just get bored after a while. And I was like, why are you going to get bored of me? And he goes, he goes, No, you’re too weird to get boring. Oh, well, I’m so happy to hear that. I’m so glad to know that I’m so weird, but never gonna get bored of me. Yeah,

34:48
that’s a really good best compliment of your marriage.

34:52
He will say something that is probably where I really don’t need a lot of like affirmation and encouragement. Other people But like, when he does say it’s perfect, and like, I never like, you know, after having the kids and then just feeling oh, I’m not as pretty now and you know, I’m out of shape and you know, this and that about my body. Um, and he and I, I said something 10 months ago now, you know, and now now you don’t think I’m pretty where he goes, Oh, you can’t another 40 pads and you’d still be the prettiest girl and, you know, just really sweet. And, um, you know, and then another time, he was talking about how some, you know, famous person had really gone downhill and she used to be so hot. And now I look at her and I’m like, Well, are you gonna think that about me? When I’m old? And I have, you know, wrinkles and stuff like that? And he goes, No, he goes, No, because you’re a warrior, and you’re gonna earn yours, they’re gonna come from being a good mom and taking care of your kids and not from partying and being some wild, you know? And so I was like, oh, okay, so, you know, he’s gonna cherish me when I’m old. Because those are gonna be, you know, the, the wrinkles, I got, like, looking at their children. And so, um, you know, so he’s sweet like that. Um, but that that’s like, not the common. That’s just not normally how he is. And I realized that that’s a huge part of relationships. And really, that’s probably one of the reasons why people who have sociopathy don’t have successful relationships. And they don’t have I mean, even friendships, let alone marriages. And, and yeah, we’re pretty happily married. And so, again, I think that’s like another instance of a psychological miracle, like a secondary psychological miracle to him just even functioning normally, and then for us to be really happy and in love. That’s incredible. All these years? And, yeah, wow.

37:03
Well, yeah, I mean, I know we were talking a little bit about before you, you share that pretty funny story about the you mind sharing that again?

37:13
So um, yeah, we were, David was speaking at NYU, to the, the Campus Crusade chapter. I think they go by crew now. And they, you know, they like to invite atheists to the club. And one of the atheists in the in the crowd was saying, I just don’t understand why God doesn’t want us to have fun. And Dave was like, What are you talking about as well? How come God doesn’t want us to have sex? And David’s like, I don’t know what you’re talking about. But I’m having more sex than all of the atheists in this room put together. Like everyone’s like, why? Because with my wife. And I just, I just happened to be sitting in the front row, and I just turned, like, beat. And I was like, that he’s like, grinning at me. And I’m like

38:11
Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. Do you feel like that’s been a important part of your marriage?

38:17
Absolutely. I mean, I think for him, that’s like, I mean, that’s the primary way that he feels loved. Yeah. Um, through that, you know, physical intimacy and just, you know, he really feels loved. And, um, you know, I think that, um, especially with, with everything that we go through with the kids, you know, there’s so much fatigue, and, you know, stress. And I think that sometimes people get it in their heads that, you know, when sad things are happening, or you’re tired that you don’t want to, you don’t want to be intimate. And I think it’s an even better time to be intimate, it’s an even better time to affirm your bond with each other in that way. That, that, you know, culture has this idea, like sex is just for fun. But as Christians, we believe that it’s a part of, you know, strengthening that bond, that there’s a spiritual bond that takes place in the physical bond. And that, you know, we’re really emphasizing it through our physicality and that, you know, our bodies become an expression of our souls. And so, yeah, so I think it’s very important. I mean, when I’m talking to other families within our community within the rare disease community, I often talk about maintaining a healthy sex life and not neglecting that aspect of the marriage and really making time well and not just you know, sex, but just Even to try to have a date or, yeah, and sometimes our dates are like, Let’s go buy groceries together, but it’s still fun. And we still look forward to it. And we’re, you know, just walking around together chit chatting as we do it. And, and it’s just us too, you know, so, um, but yeah, I think it’s, it’s so important and, and, and I feel like it’s so important in terms of being parents, you know, just giving our kids that security to see us that, that we love each other that we’re, you know, that we’re affectionate with each other and in touch and everything. And, um, you know, that I know, it means a lot to them. Yeah, there are, there is so much that’s unstable and uncertain, and life, but they see that and they have confidence in that. So,

40:54
yes, that’s incredible. That’s incredible to think. I feel like, so many of us could say, oh, well, my husband has no feeling no emotional connection, I’m not going to have sex with him. And I’m like, Look at Marie is a sociopath and she makes plenty of love to him. Love and she has five children. She literally has to do everything for like, there is

41:29
Oh, I’m so encouraged, convicted all. Real, that’s so encouraging. I just feel like your stories over and over and over again, are just just a testimony of God’s grace and Your faithfulness and David’s faithfulness to him. And I guess what would be kind of your last encouragement to the audience that you really want them to pull out from all of the many stories that you shared with us?

42:08
Um, I guess, you know, I, I think that, um, I I don’t know how to say it without sounding, you know, trite, but you know, you know, keep the faith and there’s really, just no dark place where the love of God can’t find you. There’s no situation where he can’t penetrate, and transform and redeem. And whether it’s with within you and your own sin and struggle, or within your relationship with with your significant other. I mean, there have been times where I thought it was, you know, like I said, where we weren’t going to make it. And, um, but just, you know, leaning on the Lord and just finding that, you know, even love can have a resurrection. And just as my son had almost like a resurrection with or will like, definitely something Amida rival, but that, you know, was almost impossible. And, um, so, with God, all things are possible. And I always like to think of what Paul says in Second Corinthians four and I, I really, that whole chapters really kind of like my lifeline in the in the darkest times, but he says, you know, that God is preparing us for an eternal weight of glory, far beyond all comparison, as we look not at the things which are seen, but the things that are unseen, because the things which are seen are temporary, but the things that are unseen are eternal. And it’s so grounding, because I tell people that if you take that view from eternity, yeah, it transforms everything else. Yep. And just shifting that perspective. And taking that act of faith, to really hold on to God. You could do anything.

44:39
Yeah. That’s incredible. Like you’re a walking, living testimony of doing anything, that’s just incredible. So yeah, where can our audience you know, either find and connect with you online, or should they really focus on that the website that you already gave or

44:58
how can that Um, um, it probably be hard to connect to me personally on website but um, you know, I mean, I have a Twitter that I don’t use that much but

45:14
well I’m sure David’s ministry or Or what would their next step be if they wanted to learn more about you guys?

45:19
Well yeah, um you know David has a very successful channel on YouTube that has a lot of great teaching videos you know his ministry is called X 17 apologetics. Okay, and so you can look him up on on YouTube his his testimony is on there as well. It’s a really it’s a great video. Um, we recorded it in the New York City subway system. Oh, cool. Yeah. I mean, even just telling the story about how he recorded it and timed everything. It’s kind of fun. But yeah, it’s it’s really beautiful. So I recommend watching that if you’re interested in his story. And he goes into more detail. And I’m awesome. And and you know, you can see a lot of his his his ministry work. What he has debates on there with atheists, Muslims, all kinds of stuff. So yeah, it’s really

46:23
wonderful. Well, Murray, thank you so much. This has literally been just incredible. So encouraging. And I’m sure everyone listening feels as encouraged as I do. So thank you so much, really?

46:35
You’re welcome. Yeah, my pleasure.

46:38
All righty. Wow. Again, I’m just in awe and so grateful for this story and who Marie is and her husband? And yeah, definitely check out the different resources that she mentioned. David’s YouTube is extremely popular. And he’s got a lot of really cool. The videos on there with millions of views, and it’s just incredible. So yeah, God is really using their ministry and encourage you to, yeah, to check it out. Awesome. Well, thanks for listening. I just want to encourage you and pray that this has been something that you would even look into apologetics more and more because seriously, guys, Christianity is more than faith, it’s faith. But God has given us so much just practical, scientific, logical, research, reasoning, history, all these things that back it up. So you don’t have to only think that you can’t love God with your mind. Because that’s what God asks us that we love Him with all with our hearts, our souls, our minds. So I would encourage you to pursue that. She gave a lot of resources on this call. But yeah, you can move forward and David woods, YouTube and different resources, then you’ll find a lot more as well. All right. Well, God bless you and have a wonderful day and I’ll talk to you next week.

48:17
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