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0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. Your joining me belah Rose is I dive deep into the beauty, power and truths about intimacy. Learn not only the practicals, but the heart behind what making love is all about. delight your marriage. Hi, there, this is Bella, thank you for joining, I hope this conversation just excites your day. First of all, I just have to say I kind of hate the title, but you clicked on it. So somehow these incredible results drew you in because it is incredible because God did an insanely amazing miracle in this couple’s lives. And you’ll find out from this conversation, it didn’t just impact him. It didn’t just impact his wife. It impacted his seven children. So if you are someone who needs help, who is here, because you said, Man, I don’t know if this ever could change. And my spouse is not willing to change. So how could it change? Well, let me tell you Kinh story is about to blow your mind. Because by God’s grace, he took that step of faith. He did the work. He wasn’t willing to stand by the sidelines and say, well, she’s not going to do anything. So I’m not going to do anything. So everything is going to stay the same. And I’m going to, you know, sadly, despairingly live the rest of my life feeling empty and unfulfilled, and it impacts everyone I interact with, including my kids. I don’t want that for you. And so I hope that you listen to Ken story and let God speak to you that if it could happen for him, it could happen for you. That’s why I post these transformation stories, I don’t even post all of them. There’s so many, I want to also give you, you know, teaching on this podcast, there are so many get on a clarity call with one of our folks, our clarity advisors, they’re incredible people who are trained to listen, to hear, to give you some advice on what we think should be your next step. It might not be us, it might not be us, we certainly turn people away or just to some other resource. But if it is us, we’re going to share with you what that would look like for you, and give you an opportunity to pray about it. Is this the right thing for you. And so I want to invite you to a clarity call. And even people email us after Clarity Calls, even if they weren’t able to join the program for whatever reason, their season of life, whatever. And they have shared with us how instrumental that free clarity call was in transformation just by being on a free call. So I would love for you to join to see if you are if you feel like God wants you to do the same work that Ken did. And by God’s grace, even though kin wife did not know, he did the program. She turned and transformed by God’s grace, they both transformed and their whole marriage to the glory of God and the incredible benefit to their children. It’s completely different. So let’s dive in. Let’s hear this story. And I pray and believe that God’s gonna give you so much inspiration through it. Let’s dive in all right. All right. Ken, thank you so much for doing this with me. I appreciate it.

3:59
No problem. It’s an honor.

4:00
Yay. So you are just graduating the masculinity reclaim program, actually yesterday. So can you share just a little bit about you and a little introduction about your family, your marriage, that sort of thing.

4:20
I’ve been married now about or we’ve been married 29 years, almost 30 years, I guess. And we’ve got the seven children. And for most, most of our lives, I would say married life I would say we had and and okay marriage, it was fact a lot of the times I would have said that. I’m not sure if I would have even realized that there was that much wrong with it. You know, there were that many problems with a marriage. We had fights occasionally. But Both of us tend to tend to bottle up. And so it seemed like a lot of times the fights, they didn’t happen real often, but when they did, they got big. And that kind of created a problem. At times, it seemed like we never really resolved the issues, a lot of times, we would just kind of step around them and keep going. And it seemed like over the years, over the years, that kind of thing, just bottled up and bottled up. And, and. And then it was about a year ago, I don’t even remember what the fight was about. But we had a pretty big fight. And and it felt to me, Well, let me back up a little bit here. Over the last several years, I would say that I was getting I was feeling more frustrated with the intimacy in our in our marriage, we have the second one of our children has handicaps and takes a lot of my wife’s time and energy. And then with all the other children that we had also, it felt to me like I was kind of almost an outsider in the, in the home and the family sometimes, because I was just, I think she felt like I was just another person to take care of sometimes. And I tried hard not to not to be that person that she had to take care of. But that is that’s kind of the way I was feeling anyway. And sex became something that you just did if you have time, and we’re feeling and had energy to do it. And and that was not easy for me. And so there were things that were frustrating for me that because I wasn’t feeling as much a part of the family, maybe I’m not sure. Yeah, I kind of got to the point where I had decided that, and I had tried to do it a couple of times. Where I decided that I’m done initiating. And you know, it, it’s just it kind of was to me, it was kind of the thing that not having not expecting any intimacy was easier than that feeling rejected. And so I had got to the point where I decided I’m just done initiating. And I had tried several times, but that hadn’t, hadn’t. Really. It didn’t last long. And then after this big fight we had a year ago. It just kind of, I just kind of went there again. And this time it it held out and it lasted for 10 months. And so that’s kind of where where do I am comes in my wife. And here again, it shows where communication was at because she didn’t talk. She never talked to me about it. And I’m not sure that I would have been reopened at her talking to me about it either. And so she actually talked to our pastor’s wife, and our pastor came and talked to me about it, about delete your marriage,

9:07
about no way to talk to me, first of all about the lack of intimacy, okay. And he didn’t, he was like, I don’t want details. I don’t need details or anything like that. But he said, I just want to, you know, give you some resources that might help you out. And that’s when he told me about dy Mm hmm. Your age.

9:28
Your wife talked to your pastor’s wife, about the lack of intimacy, and then your pastor’s wife, talk to your pastor. And then your pastor gave you some resources included, right? Is that what

9:42
dy M was was podcast that he said they had just started listening to and he thought it it really helped just a podcast to help their marriage. And so he got me started listening to the podcast, and it happened to be right just before the show What is the master class? I think? Yeah, the master class. Yeah. And so he encouraged me to take the free master class. I think he was taking it to I’m not sure if he actually took the whole master class or not. But he had encouraged me to take it, which I actually took it while I was in the hospital, so and it worked out kind of nice. That way. And that’s kind of where it all started. And then then after that, after the masterclass, well, bello called me. And, and I guess the rest is kind of history. So,

10:34
yes, that’s right. So, um, do you mind sharing that about your pasture? And because here was the biggest hesitancy was? If you were to purchase it, your wife would see it on your on the statement, right?

10:50
Correct. Correct. My wife handles all the finances at home. And. And I knew that if, if I would do this, that she would see it. And I was not wanting to tell her. In fact, I haven’t told her yet. I’m thinking that I’ll maybe happen tomorrow. I’m not sure. But I’m sorry, I’m losing my train of

11:23
thought you’re doing great. This is awesome, Ken. Um, so let’s see, we were talking about my train.

11:35
When I saw I talked to my pastor about it, I told him that you know that? Well, he was kind of encouraging me to take the course. And he did have some hesitancies. Because he was like, I don’t know more than what I’ve heard of this or her podcast. He said, I really don’t know. He said, This is it’s a fair amount of money for what, for what we’re doing for this. But he said, he said, you know, the podcast really did help them in their marriage. And he was hoping that, you know, that this would be another step. And part of it, I keep saying he was putting me in there as a guinea pig anyway, you want to see if see if it works. See if this was a program that he can advise or advise other people. And so

12:32
so he ended up so your your wife did the finances, that was the thing. And so he he ultimately paid for it, right?

12:40
He ultimately I called him and I told him what my dilemma was that I knew that Christie would find out about it. And he said, Well, he’ll just pay for it. And he told me at the time, he said, he said, I’ll just take care of it, and you go through it. And somewhere down the road, sometime, we’ll figure out whether you’re going to pay me back or whether you’re going to pay it forward, or we’re just going to forget about it. And well, I already knew I know him well enough to know what the answer was going to be down the road. And so he paid for it. And I got started. And I don’t know it was a couple of weeks ago, we were talking and he’s he actually surprised me just a little bit. I was almost sure his answer was going to be pay it forward. But he said his answer was he says, I don’t need to know what you’re going to do. He said, pay it forward or don’t. He said I don’t care. And but he said don’t pay me back. Oh, and I was pretty sure that was going to be his answer. I know him well enough. And, and so my plan is to pay it forward. That’s so good at it 20 times, you know, and so I started I would the snooze would ring and I’d roll over and hit the snooze and they gave me nine minutes. And I would sit there and in my head rattle off everything I was thankful for till my alarm rang again. And I got to where I got to where I would actually hit the snooze twice. Because I didn’t have enough time to say all my gratitudes in nine minutes. And so this gratitude thing was was kind of fun. A fun start for me again. You did add one twist into it. And that was putting in the last three had to be something I was grateful for my for my wife, and that was huge. That was really big. And then the other thing that I did that we did and a part of the morning routine was the forgiveness part of it. Which I know the first time I wrote it down I wrote everything down. I was shocked at how long my list got. And I didn’t realize all the things that I was holding against her. And I I remember rember, the first morning, I was just sitting there, just just looking at this list, and I was kind of what’s the right word is horrified by the list that I had. And I was praying about it. And when I, when I have done praying, praying about it, looking at the list, I just took my pen and wrote, I forgive and big letters all the way across everything. And I did that for I don’t know, did that go on for two weeks, I did that every morning. And it got to where my list kept getting shorter, every morning, it kept getting shorter and shorter. And I got to the point, after about two weeks, I couldn’t think of anything to write down anymore. And I go back, sometimes every now and then I look through my journal, and I go back, and I look at that list. And, you know, it’s just a reminder of what forgiveness does. And so that, to me, was probably one of the biggest, the biggest things that I I felt was part of it, of the program. And I just I know there for a while, the first couple days, maybe a week, even there were certain things that were on the list every morning. And certain things that are just harder for me to get around that to let those things go. And but if there was something it was kind of interesting to me when I when I wrote that across, crossed the whole page, when I wrote that said, I forgive. Um, there was a release in that, that I don’t know, a release or a piece that I had felt. Wow.

17:12
And so I haven’t done that. I haven’t kept that up. I haven’t told I needed to because I have nothing to write down.

17:24
But yeah, I’m hoping that, you know, that’s something that I can that I can remember as as we go go on through a marriage that there will probably be come times when I need to need to bring that thing out again and start. Start jotting those things down. But I think the thing that really had got me right at first was, oh, yeah, I knew there were a few things that I that I was held against my wife that I was frustrated with, and that kind of thing. But when I really wrote them all out it was that was kind of shocking. And yeah, I just hadn’t realized that I was holding that much against her.

18:05
Wow. Wow, can Amazing. Amazing. So um, I just love that story. Thank you. How was it? Just the program being set up the way that it was for you? Did you find it? How did you find that?

18:26
Um, I found that to be to be work. It wasn’t easy. I think I think one of the things I’ve been through numerous marriage seminars and read multiple marriage books. And one of the things that I’ve always been frustrated with a I’ve rarely been able to finish a book on marriage a it’s just something I in fact, I’m not sure there’s probably only one or two. I know the first one that I ever finished was love and love and respect by Emerson egg rich. And that one really resonated with me. And but then I’ve been in so many others and it always felt to me like all the responsibility always was placed on the man. There was no responsibility ever everything. Everything was always placed on the man and to a certain extent, I kind of felt that every now and then here in the program too. But there was something different about this in that I’m not quite sure what it was. I was I think I was seeing results. As as we were working through the program and as I was following the steps that you have laid out, I will be and seeing results and so those responsibilities that we as men carry I don’t mind taking the responsibility if there’s not quite sure the right wording here. But when I when I take responsibility for something, I want to see results. Also, I want to see that what I’m doing is has some value. And I think a lot of times when I’ve been to marriage seminars and read through marriage books, it wasn’t necessarily a well, you typically the whole program was dumped on you in a couple of days. And there was really no, not a a an accountant, a way that we were held accountable to a step by step program because it was just basically dumped on you, here’s the stuff, go implement it, and, and your marriage will get better. And quite frankly, I don’t I don’t enjoy most marriage seminars at all. I have a friend that goes to every one he can and he loves them all. And I’m like, I don’t see how you can do that. I hate these things.

21:31
Program. I did. Oh, that’s awesome. Um, well, I’m grateful you stuck with the program. What made you stick with you said that there were results what Tell me tell me what it was.

21:47
Um, well, I started out small things. And I know, I started getting more when I started doing more things for my wife, just just random things, I don’t know it never. I never felt like I did anything real big. But just random little things. tended to. We touched a lot more are kind of a weird little thing. But our family always we always hold hands when we when we say grace around the table. And it’s something that we always do. And it gets really awkward when we have friends over. But we do it anyway. And, and, you know, therefore, especially for the 10 months before I took the program, it was you know, my wife and I were sitting always sitting beside each other, we were holding hands, and it was just kind of like, as soon as soon as the prayer was over, almost before the prayer was over, you know, we let each other’s hands go. And I started hanging on a little longer. And you know, to the point where and it took a while, but to the point where now it’s you know, we basically still hold hands until the first bowl is passed around, you know, the first dish is pastor and we need need both hands to do something. So you know, just kind of some some progression there that that happened. That was kind of fun. And there’s a little bit more that kind of thing started happening first and which was which is really good. And definitely, you know, read instead of just just to peck on the cheek or whatever isn’t going out the door or when I come home is his story a little bit more kissing, come with a hug sometimes, which that really hadn’t happened for a long time. And so that all and eventually, well, one of the things you had said was that we weren’t supposed to initiate and I was like, Man, I waited 10 months for her to initiate and she still had initiated So how in the world do you think that’s gonna change? And eventually it did. And so and that was good.

24:16
So she started initiating Is that what you’re telling me Ken?

24:20
I am Yes. So and so that’s that’s been good and and there’s been a her desire for intimacy has been a lot, a lot higher than it has for years. Oh, there were these little I don’t know what you want to call it just little, little times here and there where he Yeah, she her. Her desires were high. But those were very rare and very few and far between. And so far, my the last probably month and a half or so it’s definitely been been better. And seems to seems to get better all the time. So just seeing so yeah, it’s it’s been, it’s been really amazing for me. And I’ve I know at one time there was and it might have been right after the fight we had a year ago. She she she told me, she said, you know, she said, I still love you. And, and I want to grow old with you. Well, I couldn’t say that. Because I had no desire to get all I was I was pretty much done with life. And I wouldn’t have cared, you know, I, I really wouldn’t have cared if I would have just passed away. And because I had, I felt like if this is all that life has to offer. This is all that my marriage is off for what what’s what’s the point? And I find myself looking forward to getting to know her better. I think I can say that I’m looking forward to growing old. At least, I’m getting there getting there a lot faster than I was earlier.

26:42
Wow. Can Wow, that’s incredible. Truly, wow. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Wow. Were there hesitations that you had coming into the program that maybe there’s a guy who is you know, making a decision? And you know, he’s in the similar spot.

27:07
Um, yeah, of course, there’s always hesitations. And one of the hesitations that I looked at right away, I tend to be I want to I’m a kind of person that wants to see whatever I do, or whatever money I spend I’m concerned about is it fulfilling or being worth what I’m putting into it, not just not just the money that I’m putting into it, but the time also, that I want, I want to make sure that I get results for what I for what I put into it. And so that was one of the things you know, am I going to actually get out of this what what I expect to I know it was hard for me to really see that it was hard for me to see that my marriage was going to change that drastically. And I knew that for me to be happy with the results that I was getting that was going to have to happen that it was going to have to change was gonna have to be drastic. And so I had I definitely had a lot of reservations because I just didn’t really think it was going to be possible and I’ll just say this being with meeting with this group of guys guys, I’ve never physically met it was really good. It was really amazing. I I got to where, you know, there were certain guys that I pray for every day I still do and I will and I was just really, really blessed by the change that I saw in in a lot of the guys certain ones of them in particular you I saw changes on their faces as the program went on. And it just a reminder of how important our marriage relationship really is to to our not just not just our life, not just our family, but to every relationship that we have. And that was that was really a I come from a very conservative Mennonite situation actually come from very conservative homes. So meeting people People outside of the Mennonites circles is not the easiest thing for me, especially talking and talking to them. And then I bumped into. There were a couple guys on there that I knew. But it didn’t take me long to figure out that they had Mennonite are Amish backgrounds. And so it that helped a connection kind of loosen things up a little I had no

30:30
idea. Wow, how cool is that?

30:34
Yeah, it was pretty cool. And I was on at one of the guys I was suspecting he was, but I wasn’t sure until we were on. We were on one of the one of the chat rooms together. There was three of us in the chat room and, and he ran away. He was like, I have a feeling you and I have some are black, similar backgrounds. And I said, Yeah, I kind of wondered about you too. And so that was pretty interesting.

31:07
Wow. Wow. Well, now I want to know who it is, but I won’t make you tell me.

31:14
Honestly, I don’t think he’d mind.

31:18
Anyway, that’s awesome. Um, so. Okay, well, um, so with the conservative background, that’s a really good thing to think that that could have really held somebody back or could hold somebody back who might listen and be like, you know, oh, my gosh, there’s a woman teaching a group of men, it’s about intimacy. I mean, was that something that was, you know, concern? And how did you? How would you respond? Okay, so if you could explain that concern? And then what would you say if somebody? Well,

31:50
a lot of this comes back from our teachings from, especially in the Mennonite, and the Amish churches where it is forbidden for a woman to teach a man in church is basically the way it’s the way it’s put. And I don’t know the the exact scripture, but there’s a scripture that says something to the effect that a woman is to remain silent. And I don’t remember exactly how that is. And so we take that fairly literally. And so the idea like we would not have, we would not have any women, that would definitely not preachers. They wouldn’t teach it in a men’s Sunday school class. In fact, up until about 10 years ago, our church wouldn’t even have female lady Sunday School teacher teaching ladies. My first my first experienced teaching Sunday school to an adult class was teaching a lady’s class. That’s not, that’s not that great. But anyway. And then I was part of the part of the ones that actually got that change in our group, so that the, in our church of the ladies would, they would allow the ladies to teach the ladies, I felt pretty strongly that needed to happen, and my wife did, too. And so that was, that was a change that they made for the better back then. And so this was a concern. In fact, my pastor actually even mentioned that, you know, this is this was a lady teaching, and he didn’t quite know how he felt about it, and all that kind of thing. And, but he’s, he’s, he’s a lot more open than some of the some of the conservative other conservative pastors will be. And he’s very quick to say, you know, if I can learn something from somebody, I don’t care who they are, if I can learn, and he said, maybe they’re gonna say things that I don’t agree with, but he said, I don’t have to take those things for the things that the things that I can learn from them, I’m going to take those things and learn. And that was more or less what are your power discussion had go on at that time, and, and so he checks up on me every now and then, with your permission, I’d like to maybe share some of the like, print out some of these some of the PDFs and share some of that with him just simply because he wants to. He kind of wants to know what he’s supposed to recommend.

34:33
That’s I mean, that’s awesome. That’s so cool. That and and, and that’s an amazing thing that yeah, that you and your pastor was able to, to move through that that barrier because I definitely hear you it’s a it’s a it’s a big concern. Especially on this topic. Yep. Did you find though that, you know, within the groups it was dealt with in a, you know, in a way that, you know, made people feel at ease rather than? I mean, obviously, you’re here on a Euro here on a testimonial, but it would probably be helpful if they heard from you what you thought of it.

35:22
Yeah, I would definitely think that it was, it was in a way that it wasn’t real awkward after the first couple times, you know, it seems like it’s always awkward to begin with, but it was something that I thought went went a lot easier. It was a, it’s kind of interesting to me, because in a way, it was also practicing for what I can do with my marriage with, you know, with my wife now, it makes it makes it a little easier to talk about sex in my marriage because of the practice that we’ve had here.

36:00
Oh, I love it. Awesome, Ken. Well, if there was anything that you think would help a guy who’s on the fence that you want to speak to any final thoughts for him

36:20
I would just say go for it. It’s, it’s, it’s worth it. I don’t know. I don’t know how to sell somebody on it. But I would say just go for it because it’s, it’s, it’s your life you need to change, it’s your it doesn’t affect just you, it doesn’t affect just your wife, it doesn’t affect just, you know, it affects everything about about your life, your your marriage, your children, your relationships that you have around you. I would say it even affects fixed my work relationships to a certain extent.

37:05
Just simply because I’m, I guess I am a easier person to be around. When I’m happy

37:17
what you had a pretty, in fact, extremely dramatic change in the amount of intimacy and I would you be willing to just share a little more specific or wood, if you don’t want to, we don’t have to?

37:32
Well, that hasn’t been that hasn’t been consistent. I didn’t expect it to be a consistent thing.

37:43
Like impossible to keep up with, I would say if I were hurt, but the point is, I just wonder if, if a person listening or watching would really know the extent to the transcript. literally zero to how many times a week.

38:07
What belah is referring to is that we went from no intimacy from 10 months to five times in one week. And that was kind of I don’t know, it was shocking. kind of blew my mind. I wouldn’t expect to get anything like that. And so yeah, that was that was pretty good.

38:37
I would do pretty

38:38
well that well. Well, that that hasn’t been consistent it’s it has definitely been better. And I want to say this definitely want to say this. It’s not this at the frequency is picked up and but it’s that the connection while during intimacy has been so much better. And that just makes that just makes the whole experience that much better. Wow. And still you haven’t initiated or have you? I’m trying to remember

39:15
during that week, five where you

39:18
know, I didn’t at all that week am just trying to think I might have one time since I’m not sure. But not

39:28
astounding kin and no. Does she know you’re in the program? She doesn’t

39:34
know. No, not yet.

39:37
So so I can like I’m just imagining that that like yeah, I just I just want a gentleman in your shoes tent, you know, three months ago like this. How long did this happen? Can How long does it take?

39:54
Now it’s three months is the program. And I would say we were two thirds of the The way through when we had the the big week.

40:07
It is just it is just jaw droppingly shocking and amazing and praise the Lord and man. So I would love can I didn’t ask you to do this. I don’t know, you know what if you’d be willing to, but totally aside from the program, just just a gentleman who needs some hope? Who may listen or watch this? Whether or not he chooses the program great or not, but would you be willing to just kind of imagine him and pray for him on this call? Are you comfortable with that? If you’re not, that’s okay.

40:41
I can, I can try. Okay, I’ll be awesome. I won’t be offended if you edited it out. And

40:49
I think your prayers are usually pretty good. Well, I do, alright. God want to thank you for what you do for us what you do in our marriages. Thank you, Lord, for what you’ve done in mind. Lord, I just want to pray for the man out there that is needing transformation in his marriage. Lord, I pray that You would speak to him and speak to his heart Lord. And I pray that he would be able to find dy M and, and be able to follow the steps and which really are steps that come from your word. And that he would be able to give himself to the program would be able to dedicate the time and the energy that he needs for that, because it is his marriage, and it’s his life that he’s changing. And, Lord, I just pray a blessing on each one that listens to the podcast and listens to go through the program. Lord, I pray, pray that You would just have a special anointing on each on each man on each marriage and on the channel. And pray that You would bless Bella and the dy M team as they serve you in this way. And that this will be a way of of changing homes here in America. And that we would that we’d be able to change the country one marriage at a time. Yes. And we just thank you for for all your love and goodness to us. She just name Amen. Jesus name,

42:46
amen. Ken, thank you. This was amazing. Well, I am I feel like you were so generous on the calls, you didn’t talk all that much. You let us all talk instead. So glad I finally got to hear you.

43:06
I don’t always know if I have much to say.

43:10
You’ve got really good stuff to say. My goodness. So this I know is just gonna encourage so many, so really appreciate it.

43:19
Good. Good. Well, thank you so much for for what you’ve done. For me, for my family, my marriage. And just let you know I’ll keep you and dy M and our prayers and the hand. Pray that God will continue to use you to change marriages change lives. Thank you, Ken. Thank you. Thank you

43:54
mean so much. Amazing. Well go. You know, squeezed that Christie for me? And those kiddos, my goodness. Seven of them. Yeah, I you remember that first call? I think it was three guys in the class.

44:15
Three of us. I’m trying. I’m trying to remember who all that was. There’s one guy from California that we didn’t see real often. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he had seven. There was one that had eight though.

44:30
There was one. I think there was three with seven and one with eight. Alrighty, Kendall, God bless you. Have a great weekend.

44:44
All right. Thank you. God bless you and your ministry there.

44:49
Thank you. Thank you. Alrighty, take care.

44:53
Okay, bye. All right. Bye.