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When Your Words Actually Bring Life (And How to Avoid Death): Interview With Ann & Dave Wilson

Do you remember when you first fell in love—how easy it was to cheer him on?
You’d light up at his stories. You’d say, “You’re amazing!” and mean it. You noticed everything good.

But somewhere along the way, the cheers turned into corrections. The same man who once felt like your hero now feels like your project. And instead of applause, he mostly hears… boo.

That’s what Ann Wilson discovered the day her husband, Dave, vulnerably told a room full of women that marriage sometimes felt that way to him—like he’d walked off the football field to a stadium full of boos. Ann was stunned. She thought she was helping him. But in that moment, she realized how her words had chipped away at his confidence and joy.

I was so honored to talk with Dave and Ann Wilson—pastors, marriage speakers, authors of Vertical Marriage, and co-hosts of FamilyLife Today. For more than 30 years, they’ve led thousands of couples toward hope, healing, and connection. But their story didn’t start with success.

The Power of Words in Scripture

Scripture is clear: “The tongue has the power of life and death.” — Proverbs 18:21

Your words can resurrect a weary heart—or crush it. They can draw your husband home or make him quietly retreat.

And as Dave and Ann share, the transformation didn’t start with more compliments or clever communication—it started with repentance.

A Night of Repentance and a New Beginning in Marriage

Ten years into marriage, they were on the verge of losing everything. Dave was busy building ministry– starting a new church at home and a chaplain for the Detroit Lions, often times away traveling with the team. Meanwhile, Ann was at home with two little boys, beginning to feel lonely, angry, and done.

One night, sitting in a parked car late at night on their 10 year anniversary, she finally said, “I’ve lost all my feelings for you.”

Dave was stunned. He thought they were great. Ann had never shared otherwise. How could she say he was disregarding her? How could she say she felt alone and he was always away?

As he reached for his planner to defend himself, the the gentle and firm voice of the Holy Spirit whispered: “Repent.”

He dropped his arguments and dropped to his knees—right there in the front seat of their Honda Accord. He realized he had put himself first instead of Jesus.

In that sacred moment, Ann felt conviction too. God showed her that she’d made her husband and marriage an idol and she had been wanting Dave to fill every need, when that was never the role God was supposed to have. She got on her knees as well, surrendering her expectations back to the Lord.

That night became the beginning of something new—a vertical marriage, grounded in repentance and intimacy with Jesus first.

When You Stop Cheering on Your Spouse

Years later, when Ann shared her “booing” moment at church, she used a visual: a plant.
She explained that when you’re dating, you pick a healthy, vibrant plant—your husband. But after a few years, you start noticing brown leaves. you take out the clippers, thinking it’s your job to prune him. Before long, you’ve hacked away so much that there’s barely a stump left.

After this sermon, Ann saw a couple that in the auditorium that stayed long after everyone had left. She approached them and saw an older man, head in his hands, tears dropping heavy on the ground, his wife sitting next to him bewildered. When asked what was wrong, he simply pointed at the stump and said, “That’s me.”

It’s not that we don’t love our husbands. We do. But we’ve forgotten that change is God’s job—not ours.

Our job is to water with words that bring life.

How to Speak Life (When You Want to Yell)

Ann admits she used to “speak her mind” freely—then justify it as honesty. But over time, God taught her a new rhythm of restraint and prayer, asking “Lord, should I say this? If yes, when should I say it? And how should I say it?” Not in an anxious way, but surrendered and thoughtful, knowing how much her words matter.

Just that short prayer created space for the Holy Spirit to guide her words.

One night, when Dave mentioned getting criticism on his sermons, her first instinct was to correct him (“Maybe if you studied more…”). But instead, she prayed that quick prayer—and said, “I can’t imagine the weight you carry, with thousands relying on your walk with God.”

Dave turned around, pulled her close and whispered, “You are my life.” Her empathy, not critique, drew him near.

Words That Heal

Ann now also prays daily, “God, show me the greatness in my husband.” That prayer changes everything—because God always sees the greatness He planted there, even when we can’t.

Romans 12:2 says, “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” When we ask God to renew how we think about our spouse, our words follow. And when our words change, the whole atmosphere of the home begins to heal.

“Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.” — Proverbs 16:24

Speaking Life Doesn’t Mean Losing Your Voice

This isn’t about silencing yourself or ignoring real problems, but when encouragement becomes your default, your occasional hard truth carries more weight. Your words no longer sound like attack—they sound like love.

And as Dave says, “When you praise your man, he becomes better. Critique doesn’t motivate—it deflates. But genuine admiration calls out his God-given potential.”

Let Repentance Start Revival in Life and in Your Marriage

If you’ve been critical, impatient, or weary—we get it. And it’s okay. The path back is repentance.
It’s not a shame-filled, heavy thing. It’s the most freeing thing you can do.
Start there.
Let God soften your heart again.
Ask Him to show you the greatness in your spouse.
Then, begin to speak it out—one small sentence at a time.

You can do this.

 

Blessings,

 

The Delight Your Marriage Team

 

PS – If you’re ready for the next step in healing your marriage, even if you’re the only one doing the work, we’re ready to talk with you. Schedule a free Clarity Call at delightym.com/cc or call +1 332-239-2379.

PPS – Here is a quote from a recent graduate:
“I am in control of my mood by controlling my own behavior instead of letting it get set for me by my husband’s behavior and what I expect of him. I have released expectations of my husband. I see him as God’s son now, which means he is NOT my responsibility to fix, direct, correct, discipline, etc. and instead I love, support, encourage and pray for him.  I am less controlling of my husband and I am more content with life in general.”

 

Transcript:

Belah Rose  00:01

Belah, welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. You’re joining me, Belah rose, as I dive deep into the beauty power and truths about intimacy. Learn not only the practicals, but the heart behind what making love is all about. Delight your marriage. Hi, there. Delight your marriage. Listener, I am just so thrilled that you are listening in today’s conversation is about words, but not just words to your spouse, which is super key and we’re going to talk about but also words to God. And if you’re anything like me, sometimes it’s easier to think of God as one that is just for me all the time and encouraging and all of that. But then there’s there’s times that we just have to realize, wait a second, when I hurt my brother or my sister, I’m actually hurting God, because that’s his daughter or his son, and that’s who I hurt when I hurt my spouse with my words, I’m hurting his son, my brother in Christ. And so my words need to first and foremost, be to God in repentance, and then to my spouse in words that give him life and build him up. And so I’m really excited to bring on Anne and Dave Wilson, they are just such precious people who do important marriage work and have a lot of good to talk about when we use our words again, sometimes in repentance and otherwise in building up our spouse. This is something I didn’t realize was so vital in my marriage, and I’m really grateful that they speak so specifically about the power of words in our marriage. So let’s go ahead and dive in.

Belah Rose  02:00

Delight your marriage. Listener, I am thrilled because I have Dave and Anne Wilson on. This is just going to be such an exciting conversation. Welcome Dave and Anne.

Speaker 1  02:10

We are grateful to be here. Yeah, we’re excited.

Belah Rose  02:13

Amazing, amazing. Well, so Dave and Anne are releasing another book, but you have written plenty. Would you all go ahead and introduce yourself so the listener can kind of get a sense of who you are if they don’t already know

Speaker 2  02:27

you. Well, we’re David A Wilson, live in Detroit suburbs in Michigan, and actually moved here, how many years, 40 years ago, to be the Detroit Lions chaplain, so that what brought us to Michigan to be in a ministry with NFL players. We did that for 33 seasons. At the same time, we started a church, and the church grew and grew and grew. And we had eight campuses, and we were there 30 years. And while we were doing that, we started speaking for Family Life Weekend to Remember marriage getaways that we had attended as an engaged couple. That’s how we knew family

Speaker 1  03:06

life. And right at the beginning of that, like around year 10 of our marriage, we almost lost our marriage, which made us write the book vertical marriage. And I mean, we were super close. And then right after that, we started speaking for their Weekend to Remember marriage getaways, and then, so now we do a marriage radio podcast called family life today, and we also are at a church. So we’re doing a lot of different things, doing conferences around the country. Somehow we have, like, five jobs. You know, we’re getting older, you’re supposed to, like, wind down. I think we’re gearing

03:43

1. Yeah, we’re sort of speeding up.

Belah Rose  03:46

That’s amazing. Yes, you just got back from Orlando after recording a month of, uh, episodes in a week. So, yeah, yeah. Not only are you doing a lot, but you do a lot in a short amount of time. Very effective, very efficient. I love it. Really exciting. So may I ask a little bit about that? When you said you almost lost your marriage? Yeah?

Speaker 2  04:10

I mean, it’s a long story, but the short story is, we were just about to launch this church. You know, been here in Detroit with the Lions for five years. Four and two year old. Yeah, and we went out on this I thought it would be this beautiful, wonderful 10 year anniversary date, which I had all these little surprises, roses delivered to the table one at a time so we could talk about each year. So there are 10 roses. And pretty sweet. Thought it was a great date, until we on our way home, I It’s probably midnight, I pull into the parking lot of where we were going to start this church. We had just rented a cafeteria at this middle school, and Anne didn’t know that. So I thought, hey, let’s end the date by praying that God will do something great in this church. And then she didn’t know but I also thought, We’re parking it’s been a great day.

Speaker 1  04:59

That’s all. Cool. That’s old school for like, a make out session, at least.

Speaker 2  05:07

Yeah, so it that’s where it went. Left. I leaned over in a Honda Accord, of all things. I don’t know what I was thinking, but to kiss her, and she sort of pulled away. And I just thought she didn’t realize I’m trying to kiss her. So I tried again, and she definitely pulled away. So I said, you know, is something wrong.

Speaker 1  05:27

And honestly, Belah, I didn’t want to get into it. It was a great night. He put so much effort into this great night. But, man, I felt like we are struggling. He’s never home. He’s starting this church. He’s on the road with the Detroit Lions. We’d been fighting about this saying, like, you’re not home. I need you. Where are you? I thought we were doing this together, but he’s like, conquering the world, and I felt like I’m here all by myself. And so I didn’t want to get into it. But finally he kept pushing, and I just looked at him and I said, like, I have nothing I have lost all my feelings for you. I have nothing left. I don’t even care if we make it. Because I started out super angry, my anger turned bitterness, resentment, and after that, I said, I have nothing left. I don’t even care that you’re gone at this point. And I think this is the first time that Dave heard it, because he thought we were doing great.

Speaker 2  06:24

Yeah, I would have told you on a scale one to 10 that afternoon, we’re a 10, you

Speaker 1  06:27

know, like, Are you kidding? This just proves my point. We’re, like, a point five, maybe a one, and you don’t even know, because you’re so invested out there, instead of in our home. And so I thought, oh, here it goes. We’re just going to have another big fight the way we always have

Speaker 2  06:43

and and that’s where it would have, would have gone. She was saying, I’m not home, I’m busy, and I’m reaching in the backseat to grab my day planner. Back then it was on paper, you know, our schedules, remember those things? Yes, I was going to basically pull it out and prove to her that I was home a lot more than she was saying. And as I’m reaching in the backseat, this is, I don’t know how to explain this, because this has never happened to me in my life. I sense the the Spirit of God, the voice of God, say, don’t touch your planner. In fact, I heard these words, just be quiet. Be Shut up. Be quiet. So she didn’t even know I was doing. I just pulled my hand back and I said, Tell me more. And she kept talking. And then I heard the Spirit of God say one word three times, Repent. Repent. Repent. And it wasn’t a scolding, it was very gentle and loving, but very firm. Again, I’m not this guy that hears the voice of God. You know, it wasn’t this. It wasn’t mysterious at all. I mean, the Holy Spirit lives inside the temple of us as believers, and he can communicate through His Word, through people, and he and through His Spirit. And I knew what he was saying. And in one word, I knew Jesus was saying, your life is out of control. You’re running this to that you haven’t prayed to me in months, except for me to help you when you walk on stage or to lead a Bible study. And in a sense, I felt like you were saying you’ve lost your first love. And you know, in Revelation, that’s what is said. You know, repent and do the things you did at first. And so again, all that’s happening in my mind as I’m listening to Anne talk in like a minute. And so I knew that I needed to repent. And so she didn’t know any of this going on. I just said to her, Hey, listen, we need to talk more, and I need to hear more of your heart, but I need to do something, and I need to do it right here, right now. You don’t need to do this, but I do. And so I just got on my knees in the front seat of a Honda Accord. I don’t know how, but I pushed the seat back and turned around, and I prayed out loud. Said, God, I repent. I am. You’re not number one in my life. I am. My ministry is you aren’t. And I’m putting you back in the throne of my life, and I’m asking you to make me the husband she longs for, and the and the dad my kids deserve Amen. And so I turned and said, Okay, let’s talk. And she’s on her knees on the other side of the of the car. My eyes were closed. I didn’t even know it,

Speaker 1  09:15

which is so interesting, because when Dave started out praying, I was suddenly so convicted, which I was blaming him for everything, like if you were home more, I had my whole list of ifs, but when he started praying, I was so convicted. I felt the Holy Spirit speak to me, and I felt like he was saying, Ann Wilson, I never made or created, Dave to meet all of your needs, that’s my job. And so I realized, like, oh my gosh, I have made my husband and and my marriage an idol, which sounds like, Wait, how can you do that? But if it comes before God, and somewhere along the line, I had taken my eyes off of Jesus, and I wasn’t in the Word. And when we drew. Rift from God, we automatically look for something to fill us up, to make us happy. And I was thinking, if Dave would just do X, Y and Z, I could be happy. We can find our happiness regardless of what’s going on in our lives, through our relationship with God. And so I got on my knees, same thing, and I said, Jesus, I’ve made Dave an idol. I’ve made my marriage an idol. I can’t find life from them, apart from you, and so I give you back my life, our lives, everything in our lives, and I re surrender everything and put you on the throne of my life. Amen. And that was the beginning of our journey back, you know, my feelings didn’t come back overnight, but that was the first and the greatest step that we made.

Speaker 2  10:48

Yeah, Amen, that’s what we call vertical marriage. You know, when you go vertical, you know? And in fact, that’s sort of what God was saying. Is you’re not gonna fix this horizontally. You got to get me right, and then you can work on this. So our book vertical marriage is like, take that idea of surrendering in the foundation of Jesus and then apply it to conflict, apply it to the bedroom, apply it to communication. That’s, that’s what we call vertical marriage.

Belah Rose  11:13

Amazing. Wow. That is so, so cool. And so right, it’s amazing how God does that through marriage, where he convict us of our relationship with Him, because it’s fascinating, right? Because God could have done that any any way anyhow, but it was through your words and sharing, your dis displeasure, your discomfort, your sadness, your disappointment, your loneliness, and that’s when God’s like, actually, Dave, I need you to know that I’m the one you’ve missed. You know, Isn’t that powerful? That’s just, wow. What a beautiful story. I also love the way you two tell this story you are. So it’s, it’s such a beautiful dance, the way you talk like with each other. I interview a lot of people, but for you, there’s like, you start, you finish, you.

11:59

It’s, well, it’s not,

12:01

believe me,

Belah Rose  12:03

I can tell. I can tell. That’s what’s so phenomenal. So today we’re going to talk about a new book, and I want to know just the story behind that and why you are passionate about sharing this book, because I think it ties into how you two connect. Because I want all of us to connect in the way that you two are connecting. So I would love to hear I

Speaker 1  12:22

wish I could say, let me share this great victory that I you know that I’m amazing in this area, but the book is called how to speak life to your husband when all you want to do is yell at him, and if you’re married, we all know that in marriage, we go through peaks and valleys. That’s just typical, because our world, our schedule, our kids, everything is pull it. We drift away from each other and from God, unless we’re intentional. And so after our 10 year anniversary, we’d probably been married another 10 years. So now our kids are in school and we’re busy, and we’re starting this church is just thriving, and I was asked to come and speak to a women’s group at our church, and I was busy, and so I said to Dave, Dave, you should do this with me. The women will love it. You’re the pastor. This will be fun. And I say to him, like, what do you what should we talk about? Because he said, Yeah, I’d love to do that. And he goes, I don’t know. Let’s just wing it. Like, Oh, okay. So we’re sitting on these tools, two stools with all these women, and all of a sudden they’ve start sharing things I’ve never heard him share ever in our marriage or life, and he says something like this, like, women, I don’t know if you get what it’s like for us as guys, but usually we have a parent or a coach or someone that’s cheering for us when we’re kids, like, Hey, good job. Good job. They’re cheering he said, I was in sports, so I had a lot of coaches, and I was a musician. They said, Hey, you’re really good at that, and they’re cheering for me. And he said I played college football, I was a quarterback, so on Saturdays, people are cheering for me. He said, But the best thing is that I met Anne, and basically she’s saying, of all the men in the world, I choose you, Dave will saying You’re the man. And she’s cheering for me, and I’m on this stool thinking, huh? I’ve never even thought about that. That’s kind of cool. Yeah, yeah, I did do that. But then he drops this bomb, and he says this, he goes, and his whole demeanor changes, because he’s really amped up. He goes. But then you know what happens? It feels like we walk in the door at the end of the day as men after we’re married. He says it feels like now all I hear is boo, boo boo. And I’m like, wait, wait, what? Just what just happened? I don’t even know, because he’s never said anything like this in our marriage, Dave’s way nicer than I am, because I generally say what I think and I feel, but he doesn’t always do that as much.

Speaker 2  14:49

I remember when I was saying it on stage, it was like I was thinking, Wow, I’ve never articulated it like this. This is exactly how it feels for men. And then, you know, I go, but. Boo Boo. And I look over at Anne, and she has this look of, you are a dead man. You got to be kidding me. We get in the car, and she’s like, You think I boo

Speaker 1  15:10

you? I mean, I was mortified. I don’t even remember how we ended. And the women, you could tell they’re feeling like a little awkward, like, this is weird. Are they fighting? And so I’m like, I said that. You think I boo you. I am helping you. I That’s because I really meant that, like, I see all the things, and I am helping you to be better. And he says this, and is it working? I’m like, No, it’s not working. I feel like I need to say it more often or louder. And he goes, I don’t know, and it just feels like you have to tweak everything. You have to fix this, fix that. I’m not doing that right. I’m not doing this right. And he goes, it feels like I can’t do anything right to please you. And I was like, oh, that’s unbelievable. And he said, I feel like you love me. I don’t feel like you like me. And if I would have been honest, I think I said, Yeah, that’s kind of right. I don’t always like you. And so, man, I went, I went home, and I was so angry, and I got on my knees in my bedroom, and I kind of vent to God. I think some of the psalms are like that, and I think we can do that with God, like God. Can you believe that? I can’t believe he would say that. And so after I had gotten all that out, at the end of the prayer, I said, Lord, do I boo, Dave, do I and I just felt this confirmation in my heart of Yes. And then I felt like God was saying, start paying attention, what you think about him. And then start paying attention, and our kids too, about and our kids. And then what you say to him, like, start paying attention. And man, oh, man, I started doing that, and he was right in my head. I’m constantly negative. And then my words to our kids too, because I thought I he knows I love him. I think he’s amazing. And everybody tells him that I don’t need to tell him that, not knowing that my words were more important than anybody

Belah Rose  17:08

else’s, that’s right, I love it. There’s so much good here. I love that. First of all, thank you so much for your vulnerable stories. You know, because we can all see ourselves in that moment of, oh my gosh, thank God I’m just not a pastor. And he didn’t say it in front of everyone, but he certainly has said these things to just, I mean, thank god you guys have had those, those stories for us, for our sakes, but it’s really powerful, because the truth of the matter, I’ve worked with so many husbands, and I had a husband that felt that exact way, where I just could not see anything other than, well, you’re not who you should be or who I think you should be. And there’s so many men that I work with that feel that way. They feel like they can do nothing right. Never is their wife going to be happy with them and and the crazy thing is, to Dave’s point, that when they were dating, she just naturally would do applause and admiration. She would naturally say how cool he is and how awesome he is at that and oh my gosh, you’re so wonderful for this reason and sexy for that reason, and you’re just awesome. But then exactly, there’s so much negativity so often. Why do you think that happens after marriage?

Speaker 1  18:26

Funny, because we talk about this a lot, and one of our is our expectations. And another thing that that I’m a visual learner, and so I created this, this thought came to me, and I put this plant on the stage as Dave and I were talking about this for the first time at our church, actually. And I said, I think what happens is, when we are dating, it’s like, these two big I’m referring to a man as a plant. So I put these two big plants on the stage, and we’re looking at these men like plants and like, which one? Like, Oh, this one’s so lush and green, and this one’s tall and this one’s godly. So we finally picked this, this man, this plant, and I point to the plant like you are the man I choose you. But then when we’re married a while, we see a brown leaf, and we get out our little pruners and we think, Oh, you have a brown leaf, and it’s my job to help you fix that brown leaf. And so we take our pruners and we just click that off, because it could have been you could you used to pursue me so well, you used to talk to me. And now you come in the door and you watch ESPN the rest of the night. And so then we start looking. We’re like, Wait, this plant has all kinds of brown leaves. This is my job to help you get rid of those. And so then we get hedge climbers, because the the pruners aren’t doing a good so we now we start just hacking away because you’re not romantic, you’re not leading, you’re not a spiritual father, you’re not you’re not being the dad that I wanted you to be. And we just start hacking away and. And pretty soon you can’t even recognize that incredibly lush, healthy man that we married. And after I got done doing that for the very first time, this the auditorium is big, with 1200 seats, and there’s this one couple in their 80s sitting in the auditorium all by themselves. And so everyone had left. I walked up, and I can see this man. He has his head in his hands, and these tears are plopping on the floor. Oh. He turns to me, and she said, I don’t know what’s going on. She said, ever since you chopped that plant up, he’s been crying. And he looks at me, he lifts his head, and he points to the stage, and he said, that plant is me. He called it a stump. That stump is me. And she looked at me and she said, I had no idea. I honestly thought I was helping him. And I think that’s true for us as women. We don’t want to hurt our men, we love them, but we think it is our job to change them. And I don’t know about you, Belah, but I don’t have the power to change Dave, that’s not what my job is. It’s God’s job. Amen.

Belah Rose  21:17

Amen. Dave, does it surprise you that that man had such a strong emotion for feeling that way for all these years. No, I mean,

Speaker 2  21:28

I’ve, you know, I’ve been that guy. I’m not anymore. We can tell you the rest of the story later, but I was that guy. I felt chopped. Obviously I said it, you know, I should have said it to Anne in our kitchen, in front of a bunch of women, which was not the appropriate way to do it. But I’ve talked to so many men. I’ve been I have a men’s group. I’ve been together. We’ve been together 30 years, and we were on a trip one time in a rental car, and I we’re sort of wrestling through this stuff in our own marriage. So I just said these guys, I go, Hey, let me ask you two questions. Number one, do you guys feel like your wife loves you? And I know all their wives, I know their kids. I’ve done their weddings, and every guy within a couple seconds, like, yeah, yeah, definitely my wife loves me. Okay. Second question, do you feel like your wife likes you? Every guy within seconds? No, no. And then, of course, they’re like, why are you asking that? I’m like, I think this is pretty common in marriages. You feel like I didn’t think aunt’s leaving me. She loves me. We’ve made a covenant. We’re going to till death do us part, but man, I felt like she’s disappointed in me, and husbands have resonated with that. That’s why the guy’s pointing at the stump, going, I feel like I’ve lost who I am, because all she’s done is and by the way, it goes both ways. We do this to our wives as well. It isn’t just women to men, for sure, but you know, I found in our in our marriage, and I think a lot of guys resonate with this, is because I felt that at home, I found myself running toward my ministry. Where out there they’re going, yeah, good sermon, good Bible study. You’re You’re good at this. I come home and I hear, okay, we’ll see you later. I never connected the dots, and that wasn’t the only reason I was sort of a workaholic. I had issues in my own life, insecurities. I’m trying to prove to my dad, who left when I was seven. I’m a man and I can so all that was driving me as well, but I did feel a resonance out here that they thought I was good, and I’m not so good here as a husband and as a dad, a spiritual leader all the different areas, and so that came out on stage, but then we go on this journey. And that’s what her book’s really about, is, you know, she goes on this journey, and at the end of each chapter, I’m just like, Hey, ladies, here’s a man’s perspective on what Anne just talked about. But I’ll tell you this. And again, it didn’t happen over or, you know, days or weeks or months, but over years. There is no one even close to being my biggest cheerleader. Now, she is an amazing cheerleader. She thinks I’m amazing. I’m not half as good as she thinks I am. And again, she’s not she’s not lying. She’s not trying to get something out of me. She manipulation God, shifted her mind the goodness and greatness in me and her words, then started calling that out. And honestly, when she first started doing it, I thought she was just lying, you know, like you just said, I’m a good husband. You’ve never said that. What is you know, what is happening? What book are you reading? And I tell you what this was interesting about men. And I’m not saying we’re all the same, but I think most of us are wired this way. When you critique your man, it it doesn’t motivate him. It demotivates, and he sort of runs away, or he withdraws, or he gets angry when you praise your man. And I’m again, I’m not saying you’re lying, but you see something, and you speak it out and you call it out. It motivates us. We could we become better. You want your man to run home. I’m telling you, that’s how you get. Your man to run homes like, why is he always gone? Why is he always working? I don’t know, but there’s probably a little bit of that going on. And man, I run home now, well,

Speaker 1  25:08

Proverbs 1821 says the power of life and death is in the tongue and so and I, I’m just gonna say, I don’t usually say this, but there is a battle going on for our homes, a spiritual battle, because we’re where the enemy can win is when we’re separated. And so for us to be one in this man, it’s a game changer, and it feels so contrary to what makes sense like so when I praise him, he’s it’s motivating. And when I don’t, when I’m and it doesn’t mean here was my fear that I’m going to lose my voice. Okay, I’m like, I don’t want to be Oh, you’re amazing when, when I’m lying. But my prayer became this, and I think we can all do this, not just for our we should do this for our husbands, wives and our kids. God, show me the greatness in my husband. Show me the greatness in my wife, show me the greatness in my kids, because God sees it. Even if your spouse is not a believer, they’re made in the image of God, and God put greatness in all of us. And are we broken? Yes. Are we messed up because of our past? Of course, but God still sees it. And when you call it out in someone, they want to rise to that. And that’s what I started seeing, because I couldn’t fake it. So it started super easy when God said and just want you to pray this prayer, show me the greatness and day. So yes, I’m I’m going to see it. And we all know through brain science that neurologically speaking, we create neurological pathways of I had gone down the negative path, and that’s all I saw. And change the patterns. I mean, Romans 12, two says, Don’t be conformed to this world, but be transformed by literally, the renewing of your mind. Like change those neurological pathways. So when you pray, God, show me the greatness. Help me to start thinking the positive and to stop the negative thinking. Because I would just go down. I’d be, you know, I remember folding clothes, and I’m like, he’s never home. Oh, well, I’ll have to do that, because he won’t do it. Oh, and I guess I’ll have to give the kids a bath, because he never helps. You know what I mean? Yeah, it in this cycle, and it’s ugly, and so for me to stop that, because I remember I did was doing that one day, and God, I felt like said, what would happen if you prayed for him as much as you complained about him? That was convicting.

Belah Rose  27:35

So good. There’s a couple things that are the themes that you’re sharing that I love so much. And one is repentance. This is, this is what this journey is. We should be repenting by all the time. When God convicts us, we need to come back and say, I am sorry. That is Lord. Help me. Forgive me. This is wrong. Put me on the right track. You don’t always hear that word anymore,

27:59

and we need to repent.

Belah Rose  28:03

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. Okay, so here’s something that’s a little bit tough, so I’m so excited that you guys are here live to make this figure this out for us, because at the beginning, Anne your concern in the car when you were trying your hardest not to say the wrong thing, and you did tell him some negative things, and then the man repented right in front of you. 10 years later, you find out that is a terrible strategy, and it won’t help tell me what to do with that.

Speaker 2  28:40

Well, I could speak on the side of the you know, the spouse hearing the negative and then hearing the positive, or, as we said, cheering or booing, when, when all your spouse hears is negative, yeah, it’s demotivating, and it sort of pushes them away when there’s a ratio of more positive to

Speaker 1  29:02

negative. And you can we call it making deposits.

Speaker 2  29:05

Yeah, you deposit. I see greatness in you. Thank you for this. You did a good job here. You’re a good man. You’re a good husband. You did. You’re, you’re, you’re a spiritual leader in this home. I appreciate that. I mean, again, you’re not lying. You’re just when you see it, you speak life, point it out, and not death. But that does not mean you don’t speak hard truths. You have to, we say Anne’s written every fifth or six page in books. She reminds the wife, if you’re living with a man who’s abusing you, we are not saying hey, just say you’re amazing. No, you get safe. You get help. You know. So this is a good willed man who has a good heart, but he’s just missing in so many ways. And so man, speak life, speak life, speak life. Guess what? I have to speak truth right now, and it’s not going to feel like life. It’s going to feel like death, but I got to be honest and say this, I’ve lost my feelings for you or whatever it is, you know. You know, I need you at home, and you’re not home, I’m going to respond to that because mostly I’m getting deposits, and now she’s saying something that I need to hear. You don’t lose your voice. You gain a voice that actually is going to motivate your man to act, because he feels like you’re his

Speaker 1  30:16

partner. And Belah, I wish Dave would have said this earlier, as I said, and I find this, generally speaking, in men, I think they can be a little more kind, like I’m not going to say that that’s going to hurt her or whatever. And so I’m really grateful. And I say even in the book, ask your husband how you are doing in this area, and ask him to be really honest. And I know there’s some men that will, you know, point out all the negatives, but generally speaking, Dave is just way more careful. I had to go on the opposite journey, because I tend to I’m a verbal processor,

30:54

and that’s not always great.

Speaker 1  30:58

If I think it, I usually say it, and I felt like God was saying this. I felt like he I felt like he was so clear. Because when we go to him, it says in James, if you lack wisdom, let him ask of God. Because I would just call my friends and vent about how frustrated I was. If anybody lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives generously without reproach. And so I’d like, Lord, you need to teach me. And I felt like he was saying, Anne, ask me first if you should even say it. I can’t tell you how hard that was. Yeah. Like, so let me give you an example. I started working on all this, and it was so hard for me. So this one night, David been preaching, how many times? Four

Speaker 2  31:40

times. I mean, during the football season, it’s crazy. It was five two Saturday night sermons. Go to down there, do chapel for the Lions, preach three times Sunday go to the field, be on the sideline with the lions, and then come home. So it’s a crazy, exhausting weekend. So when I crawl in bed on, you know, a Sunday night, I’m just dead tired post, it’s 1130 at night, and I’m crawling into bed and I remember Anne says,

32:07

Oh, you say,

Speaker 2  32:10

I said to her, that’s right, I said, I said, Man, I’m getting, you know, a lot of it feels like a lot of critiques on my sermons lately. Just made that comment. Don’t really want to talk about it, but you know, it was is what I was feeling. Then I just lay my head in the pillow. I’m

Speaker 1  32:25

so embarrassed to tell you what came and honestly, any other time before this, because God’s now working on my heart, I would have just said, this is the first thing that came out. I would have said this. I think that if you’d spend more time studying the scriptures, your sermons would be way better. That’s what came to my mind, and I would have automatically just said that. Now imagine that. That wouldn’t have been great. So instead, it comes like he says that this comes to my mind, and I say, God, should I say that? No, that’s what I hear, no. And then my next prayer is, Lord, should I say anything? And if so, when should I say it and how should I say it? I just taking a second to say that quick prayer. Should I say Lord? Should I say this? And if so, if I have the green light, when should I say it, and how should I say it? And then this is the thought that came to my mind. And here’s what I said, Man, I can’t imagine what it’s like to be you. You have 1000s of people depending on your walk with God. That is just a weighty thing to carry. And then there’s silence. And then he pulls me over, and he hugs me and he whispers in my ear, you are my life. Now, if I had said anything to spend more time in the work like it’s embarrassing, honestly embarrassing. But that just that little practice, those a few things, God, greatness, God, should I say it? If so, when and how? Like, that one changes everything. That way too. If I speak a truth, a hard truth, to Dave, I’ve already prayed about it. How should I say it? Sometimes I’ve had friends call me like, I’m so bad at this. Can you help me? Because this is what I feel like. I’m going to say, what do you think of this? And I’ll be like, Oh, girl, that’s still rough like that. It’s still it’s so disrespectful, you know? And and what I saw in myself, like I am prideful and arrogant, thinking, Oh, I’m doing it so well. And writing this was embarrassing, like, of how bad I was in this area,

Belah Rose  34:33

yeah, I just there are so many aspects of this that I love, and I see that in myself too. So many times, oh my gosh. And there are so many times I’m like, Lord, how did I Yeah, you know, so I love I love this, and I love that you couple things. Dave, you said that it’s not about a wife losing her voice. It’s actually about making her voice louder, more impactful, because all that nagging does nothing. But as you said, make him apathetic, make him do. Angry or just decide to spend all this time at work away from her, and the Wild Thing is, it’s actually giving her more impact on her husband and who he is. And even that comment was so powerful, because instead of criticizing and bringing him down, you actually go in empathize with him. But the impact of what you just said was how weighty it is that 1000s of people are relying on your walk with God, which also affirms him and encourages him in the way of prioritize your walk with God, but you never are critiquing that. It’s just that was powerful. One other thing that I noticed that you said was, or I guess I’d love for you to speak to and is some ladies might listen to say, Are you kidding me? That amount of work I have to do just to talk to my husband. I have to pray. Should I What should I say? Who not do I have to draft it out and text it to a friend first. How do I do this?

Speaker 1  35:54

I had a friend actually say that he’s my husband. For goodness sake. Surely I can just say it. We’ve been married a long time. I’m just going to say it. And I said, I get that. I get it because it feels like a lot of work. However, we do it with strangers. Generally, we’re we’re my kids would say, Why are you so nice to the guy that just came to the door? You’re yelling at us. You know, we’ll do it to other people. This is the most important relationship apart from God. So you would think that we would care for this relationship and take the time and energy, because it pays off. I never did any of this to try to get Dave to change. I felt convicted, and I felt like God wanted me to do this. And yet, nothing has changed. Dave Moore, I can’t even tell you this like we have a son this one night, he was getting ready to go, he was in his senior year, gonna play college football, and it was spring, and he came in to say, Good night, and I said, I grabbed him by the shoulders, and now I’ve learned to become a life speaker. So I’m like, Man, I can’t wait to see the impact you have at school next year. You’re a leader people. People are drawn to you when you speak. You’re a powerful influencer. He goes, Okay, mom, whatever night, love you. And he goes to bed, he comes back in five minutes later, and he’s crying, and I’m like, what happened? And here’s what he says, Mom, I’m not that guy. I am not that guy. I just partied last weekend for the first time. Mom, that’s who I am. And as a parent, you know, you don’t you try not to freak out. But I remember asking, God, what should I say? And I said this to him. I grabbed him by the shoulders, and I said, that may be what you did last weekend, but that is not who you are, because those things I said, That is who you are. And it’s like we have that impact on our kids too. And so is it worth it to take the time to pray that prayer? It’s a second it’s a second prayer. Yes, it’s so well worth

Speaker 2  37:57

1. And you know, I would add, you know, if you think about should I intentionally take time to think through how I’m going to respond? What words part of me? I’ve never said this on another podcast. It’s just to hit me that if you are handed a very sharp tool like chainsaw, you know that can do great work, but it’s fired up, and you’re just going to wheel it around. You’re not going to wheel it around people. You’re going to be very careful, because that tool can be used for good. It can destroy houses, people. And I thought, I don’t think women understand God has given you, and I know it’s true for men, too, but especially a wife, he and I think this what Anne’s book is really. The theme of her book is, women, you have power. You have incredible power that God gave you, and you can use it for good or bad. I mean, that’s what the tongue verse in Proverbs about, is that you know life or death and the power of the tongue. And so I think it’s worth going, Okay, this is a powerful I’m a powerful person in this man’s life, and I can destroy him. And so many wives are doing that, but or you can, you can create a better man out of your man. That’s what’s handed to you. And when Anne said that to me that night, you know, I can’t imagine what it’s like to have that. The weight of that, the reason I pulled her aside and said, You are my life. I didn’t think I’m going to hold her, and it just spontaneously happened. Because here’s what happened in that moment, other people tell me I’m good. I sort of smile and say, thanks, but they don’t know me. Yeah, inside I’m thinking, I’m not anywhere near as good as you just said I am. But she knows. She knows all the good, all the ugly, the really ugly. It’s the gospel, and she’s saying, You’re an amazing man, and that’s powerful because I’m like, she doesn’t have to say that, because she knows I’m not always that man, but she believes that women, that’s the power God has given you, and so man, use it. God wants you to be. Be powerful woman in your powerful

Speaker 1  40:01

man’s I love proverbs 2119 because it says, Oh no, not that one, because that one’s the one that says, better to live alone in the desert than with a quarrelsome and Belah being life. But proverbs 1624, says gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. And so man, it’s well worth it to speak life. It’s like it heals our families. It’s, it’s when people want to run home, because it’s a haven, not a war zone.

Belah Rose  40:31

Amen. Amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing. I love that. I’ll add one final verse, Proverbs, 1218, the words of the reckless Pierce like swords or chainsaws, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. Yeah, powerful. You too. This is wonderful. Wonderful. One final comment that you want to make sure these ladies hear that would encourage them.

Speaker 1  40:55

I think it’d be, I love that Dave wrote at the end of every chapter of this book, because it’d be, it’d be really fun to read that out loud with your husbands and ask him thoughts, because it’s from a guy’s perspective. But even just to start beginning with a conversation and maybe ask your husband. And I just heard this podcast today, or as and Dave, I’ll let you talk to the men, but I just heard this pause this podcast today, and I’m wondering how you feel like, Do my words lift you up? Do you feel like they are lifting you up? Or do you feel like my words are like they’re kind of hurtful? Pray before you have that conversation and be ready to not get defensive. If your husband says something negative. Just say to him, like, Let me think about that for a day and then pray about it and go before God and talk to him about it

Belah Rose  41:49

and be willing to repent. Yes. I mean, that’s what the journey of following Jesus is about. We can do it wrong and repent. We’re we do ours every day. Yes, oh so good. And okay, Dave, do you have a thought for the men? Yeah.

Speaker 2  42:08

I mean, my thought is for the guys, is, stop being lazy in your marriage. I don’t know what other way to say it, but I found in my life, I gave a lot of energy to my job is not as much at home, and I almost felt like, Hey, you got the home. You got the boys, even though, as a working person, I’m working above and I just came home somewhat tired. And you know, I realized somewhere along the way, the most important people in my life are not the 1000s and strangers in my church. I don’t know their names. It’s Anne, CJ, Austin and Cody. They’re who I’m called to, love and lead and disciple and so guys, sometimes I think, you know, we feel like our wife is harsh with us, and you know what? We deserve it. We’re not bringing the energy that we used to or could. And we’re not the man. I I give a talk to guys around the country, and I always say, how to become the wife. I mean, excuse me, how to become the husband. Your wife thought she married. They’re like, Look at me. What are you talking about? I go, she thought she married a romantic guy who was going to take care of her, because that’s what you did. Might have done it even after you got married for a while, but most of us get pretty lazy, and we just get status quo, and we bring a lot of our great best energy to other things in our life, which that’s great you should but man, when you pull in your driveway every night and I had to shift my mind to like, Okay, I’m not coming home to rest, I’m coming home to work. This is the most important job God’s ever given me to be a husband and a dad to family. I gotta shift into my second shift, and let’s go, you know? So I would say to guys, man, become a guy who’s worthy of life. Words from your wife, and I think she’ll see it and she’ll start to speak them.

Belah Rose  43:56

Amazing, amazing. And, you know, it’s interesting the Bible, you know how there’s these scriptures about husbands do this and wives do this. And any of us can look and be like, oh, yeah, well, my husband doesn’t do that, so I’m not going to do my side and what? Yeah, what would be your response to that kind of attitude?

Speaker 1  44:10

5050 most of us say, when we say, what’s your plan for marriage? They’re like, 5050 he does his part. I do mine. When he doesn’t, then I’m going to pull back mine. The gospel is we give our lives every day. And if you feel like you don’t have a husband or a wife worthy of that kind of 100% he is like, it’s an act of worship to be kind, to love, to see the flaws and continue to pursue that. You can’t do that apart from Jesus.

Speaker 2  44:40

And that makes no sense. It doesn’t, you know, it’s like, come on, you gotta be kidding me. But that’s, again, that’s the gospel. And that’s right, in a sense, it takes us back where we started. That’s sort of when we talk about what vertical marriage is. It’s sort of like, you know, you think you’re gonna give to your spouse because she’s so amazing, he’s so amazing. And then when you get married. You’re like, wow, they’re not as great as I thought. And so we had many people reach out. When our book vertical marriage came out, they reached out on social media direct message us and say, What do you say to me? I married the wrong person, and we’re like, what? Well, we know why they say that. They say it because I thought I married a guy who make me happy, and he did, and now he doesn’t, or she and we, and our answer became this, you didn’t marry the wrong person. You’re looking in the wrong place. You’re not going to find life or happiness in a person or an amount of money or a vacation home. It’s vertical. And when you’re filled vertical with your relationship through Jesus, now you come to your marriage, and it isn’t about what are you going to give me? It’s like, I’m going to overflow if you give me nothing, I’m full in my relationship with Jesus, so I’m gonna, I’m gonna overflow into you. That’s a whole different way to do marriage. So beautiful. It’s not dependent on what your spouse gives you back. It’s I’ve got. And so to get filled, you don’t go to your spouse, you go to your you go to your Lord, yeah, amen.

Belah Rose  46:00

Amen. Amen. Amen. Okay, well, where can we find the book? Details around that, and also just where to find you further after this conversation.

Speaker 1  46:08

Yeah, you can really it’s the easiest way to get the book is through Amazon. How to speak life to your husband when all you want to do is yell at him,

Speaker 2  46:16

or anywhere you get books. And I’m hoping Zondervan, our publisher, will let me write a follow up book, because I’ve already got the title. You ready? What is it? Yes. Title is how to speak life to your wife when all you want to do is have sex with her.

Belah Rose  46:28

Ah. How did we know that? That’s hilarious. That is amazing. And yes, I can I vote? Can I tell zonderman? Yes for that.

46:39

Totally

Speaker 2  46:42

teasing, please. Find us on family life today. That’s our podcast. It’s a YouTube channel or a podcast or radio show, and then online, we’re just Dave and Wilson. One word

Speaker 1  46:51

no, eon and Dave. Ann.

Belah Rose  46:54

Wilson, Would one of you pray for our listener?

Speaker 1  46:59

Please, let’s both do it. I’ll start Father, thank you. Thank you for every listener. I feel like Jesus, that you’re always wanting to talk to us, and Lord, I pray that You would give hope. Pray that you would give wisdom. I pray, Father, I know you Holy Spirit, and you’re always about our own soul and what’s going on. And so I pray that we would reflectively look at what’s going on. But Lord, we don’t find life through anything first, but you, you are the giver of life, and the one who gives life to the full. John, 1010, so Lord, I pray for protection over marriages, hope over marriages. I pray Jesus that you would give a renewed energy of bring in to each other and seeing Lord Jesus, this is my biggest prayer. Help us to see our spouse the way you see them, and then Help us, Lord, learn to start saying the things that you would say to them. We need you, and we love You.

Speaker 2  47:57

And Lord, I pray for the for the men, they’re the husbands and dads listening, Lord, first of all, I pray that they would be the man, the men that you want them to be. If they need to repent, they would do it quickly and immediately, and you would inspire them to bring energy and passion and love to their marriage and their family and become men that wives want to speak life to, and I pray they’d love their wives as you love the church, maybe in a way they never have, or a way they used to, and that you would transform marriages. Yeah, yeah. That transform legacies and make an impact for your on this world, yeah,

Belah Rose  48:43

amen, amen. Thank you both so much. This was just amazing. So appreciate you.

48:48

Belah, thanks for having us. Thank you so welcome you.

Belah Rose  49:03

Belah, Anne and Dave, thank you so much. This was amazing, and I hope you listener got a lot out of it, because ultimately, God wants us to use our words to build up and to speak life and to truly impact and influence our spouse in the right way. And as Dave pointed out, this is not about taking away your voice in your marriage. It’s actually about making your voice louder and more influential to your spouse. So I encourage you to use this as an IT as as a as a guide that will help you ultimately in your marriage. Let me pray for you, father. I pray for the ones that are listening right now. I pray God that you would give them insight, wisdom and clarity. God, you can change their hearts and the ways you want them to change and grow and follow you, God, pray that you would do that in Jesus name, amen, so please check out Dave and Anne. Wilson. And I would love also for you to think about if you need accountability in this, if you need encouragement and if you need tailored coaching on transforming your marriage. I would love to be part of that journey go to delight your marriage. COMM, slash, CC, and we will walk with you, encourage you, and witness transformation by God’s grace, God bless you, we’ll talk soon.