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Hi there! Belah here. Today is Part II of my interview with Dr. Sandra Glahn of aspire2.com. On this episode, she talks about her own marriage and the difficulties she face, as well as how she handled these problems. Dr. Glahn discusses about the theological bases of marriages and how everyone’s belief can be skewed at times. She tells us what exactly marriage means—to you, to me, and to God Himself. Join us on this eye-opening and inspiring episode today!

Check out Part I at delightyourmarriage.com/48

Scripture/Quote:

• Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. Ephesians 4:32
• There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens. Ecclesiastes 3:1

You’ll Discover:

• The true goal and purpose of a marriage
• How people view the ideal marriage to be like
• Dr. Glahn’s theological views on marriage and sexual intimacy
• The essential ingredients that helped Dr. Glahn keep her love thriving throughout the changing “seasons” of life
• What the number one sex problem is!

Books & Resources Mentioned:

• Sexual Intimacy in Marriage by William Cutrer and Sandra Glahn
• The Contraception Guidebook by William Cutrer and Sandra Glahn
• Engage blog at Bible.org
• aspire2.com, Dr. Sandra Glahn’s website

Tweetables:

• The goal of marriage is oneness.
• You can’t give love and affection for somebody you don’t really respect.
• Grieving in marriage could be like a winter of growth; you don’t see many leaves on the tree, but the roots are getting deeper.
• Study each other. Do not try to change things that are not character issues, things that have something to do with personality.

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

Love,

Belah

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Transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host belah. Rose.

0:17
Hi there, and welcome. This is the delight your marriage podcast. And I’m so grateful you’re here again, with me today. belah rose. And also I’m talking to Dr. Sandra Golan. And she’s talking about what it was like, in her marriage. And then also, she gives us some great insight even right away about how we should be able to be on all sorts of the normal spectrum. And that’s okay. And even biblically, it’s okay, she’s got so much resources that I have linked up at delight your marriage.com. So go there to check out the resources she mentions, but do listen in because she’s got some really weathered by not only time, but research and digestion of the Bible and Scripture and understanding the things I don’t even get close to understanding. So I want you to definitely listen in

1:24
Yeah, I would, I would just summarize it as a theology of the body, it affected the book that Dr. Kucera and I wrote a sexual intimacy in marriage, we recognize that a lot of people were talking about their sexual difficulties, when what in many cases, there was either a physical problem causing pain that people attributed to a psychological spiritual problem, or the opposite they, they did not have satisfying technique, because there wasn’t kindness in their marriage. They needed a better theology of how to interact with each other. They needed versus like, be kind to one another, tender hearted, forgiving, and a recognition that the goal of marriage is oneness, which means that there is no one model for what is the ideal marriage, you the two of you work out what works for you what we’re most gratified. And some books will say, gosh, if you’re not having sex three times a week, you know, you just you’re not meeting each other’s needs. It’s like, wow, well, you have a guy with low testosterone with no desire, if they’re, if they’re happy, why are we giving them the standard, it’s up to them to decide what their level of satisfaction is. So it comes sort of back to it the study of the body, again, a view of the human body, a view of marriage, that, that it is something that, you know, God creates this amalgamation of two people to do become one in this mysterious way that’s bigger than intercourse. And the goal of marriage is oneness. And that’s going to look very different for different couples. Yeah. Well, and that’s pretty amazing that you were able to really understand this, specifically, because you are in a place of, well, is not the goal of intimacy, isn’t it creation, or isn’t there, you know, these other things, and I love that, that that lesson is, the goal is oneness. I’m interested, when you say that Theology of the Body that comes from is anyone who’s unaware, could you just kind of give some explanation behind what that phrase kind of comes from and what that means even. It’s been an area of specific academic interests, I would say since Vatican two, and again, I’m a Protestant, but the Roman Catholics have done some excellent thinking theologically, on just a biblical view of the body and, and while I landed at a different slightly different place than the Roman Catholic theology, for example, I we wrote a book on contraception. I believe in contraception as long as it doesn’t destroy human life. Again, I think it’s always the right thing. The goal is oneness. So you work out together, you know, what, what is our goal and and what is honoring to God, you know, you ask the Holy Spirit to help you. There’s no again, one model for every marriage. So I did land in a little bit of a different place than the Roman Catholic Church theologically, but still, they they give great dignity to the view of human sexuality, of purity of a human oneness. And part of part of concluding that the goal is oneness came from some of my my studies of are they really teaching that procreation is Vigo? Well, it’s a goal it’s a very important goal and Catholic theology. So here I was a woman who could not procreate wrestling with you know, if that were, if it were true that only create procreation is a legitimate reason for marriage. We would just tell people to divorce when they hit menopause, right? We’re not not not married, not remarry, or whatever, if you’re in menopause and widowed or whatever. And just noticing as we’re, again, going back to Genesis wrestling with what is a woman, what is intimacy, what is the goal of this, to see that, that two will become one is the consistent thread from Genesis through Ephesians.

5:25
Five, anytime they’re just talking about to become one. And again, in Ephesians, Paul isn’t talking about sexual intercourse, he’s talking about a head and a body. And so often, I think we do ourselves a great service by seeing an org chart and that and we make a hierarchy and that instead of seeing a literal head, connected to a literal body, that to our one, and so he’s saying, the husband is the head of the wife, he’s not saying he should become the head or something he should she, you know, make as a to do if he is saying this is the reality, in the same way that, if you will, sexual intercourse is horizontal, to become one ahead of the match vertical to become one. So he’s taking sort of the same metaphor and image and flipping it up and saying in a different way, she are him and he are her, and you are connected. That’s why he tells why submit it’s not obedient, it’s not beating into subjection, it’s saying a literal neck under a literal head, if it’s disconnected, it’s a beheading. So, so with the metaphor, he’s choosing words that go with the metaphor of a physical body and ahead of the body. And he is also talking to, in a culture where the husband is the the patter familiar, which is the person with all the social power, whether it’s over the wife, whether it’s over the children, whether it’s over the slaves in one household, he’s not saying that’s the ideal setup, he’s just talking to the person with the most social power in that setup, saying, You got to love your wife, as Christ loved the church, which means lay down your life, which was an insane idea in Roman culture, the powerful person would never have violence done to the body. And part of what made him macho in the first century was nobody touches my body. And somebody’s body, it’s because I’m lower class, it’s because I’m a slave. It’s because I’m an actor, which was a shameful occupation is because I’m a gladiator somebody else has control of my body. And that’s a shame and that culture, which then if you look at what Jesus allowed on the cross to be naked in and spit on and poked. His he’s volunteering for the worst shame possible. Even look at Paul going into Philippi and being thrown in the jail and not pulling as I’m a citizen card, you can’t beat me up until after they beat me up. Like he didn’t pose card until it was going to have cred for the gospel. So all of these metaphors that we have, it really helps us sort of understand the first century backgrounds to get at, again, what’s the purpose of marriage to become one, and those two are the ones who decide before God with the help of the Holy Spirit? What is oneness look like in our marriage? It might mean, she pays the bills, because she’s better at it, instead of, you know, arbitrary assignment of roles. Wow. That’s really great. Okay, so do you think there are certain things in the in the marriage household that him being the head, these things are? We don’t deal with that or in terms of that non negotiable thing? I don’t think Paul, is it all going for division of labor and who does what? And who’s he’s not going for roles. He is giving a metaphor that illustrates what oneness looks like. And then his command of the husband is not lead. His command to the husband is Agave love. It’s not even phileo love. It’s not like, you know, people sometimes will say her need is love and affection and his need is respect. I save him money, okay? Because you can’t give love and affection and lay down your life for somebody you don’t really respect. And you can’t really just give respect to somebody that you don’t love. Oh, yeah, I see what you’re saying. So I mean, I don’t want my husband to sacrificially unrespected. Me.

9:27
Or Or, I’m not saying that. That’s what they’re not teaching that he should disrespect me. But they’re just saying my need is not for respect as much as love. And that is not what Paul was saying. By with tough husbands to love. He’s not talking about phileo love. He’s talking about agave. He’s talking about the heart giving up of yourself. So if anything, the husband needs to be willing to fall the socks. It means. I mean, instead of you, you know, bring me a drink. It should be do I need to cook dinner for us tonight? Right? And you see this throughout the Gospels and, and throughout Paul that he is he is giving up his man card and you see Jesus saying I would gather to you, you to me like chicks, you know, makes himself the mother hen. Yeah, the this this, I’m not saying men or women are not different, they are different we are, you’re definitely different. What I’m saying is we should not resort to essentialism where all men have to be less emotional than women and all women, you know, are more interested in relationships than work or whatever mean, we make generalizations that just are not true of the diversity that God has given humanity. They say they’re generally true. But you say that people sometimes say, then that’s how it ought to be. And yeah, if to become one, then you study your husband, and your study, husband studies, you and you say, we are unique, that may be true of every other marriage, but in 3% of marriages is like this. We’re that 3%? And this is how we’re gonna do it. And we’re both happy. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. It’s funny, I just did a webinar last night where I talked about a man’s desire for respect is a lot higher than US Women’s desire for respect. And so it’s, it’s good that we’re talking about this, because there are certainly marriages that aren’t going to resonate with that kind of talking. Absolutely not. So I’m I’m grateful for, for understanding that. There’s a lot of grace and not just grace, but also there’s a lot of purpose in the the outlining, I guess, I guess, outliers, I guess is the best. Yeah, ours is a good way to say that, that there are marriages where the wife has the more robust sex drive. And they can go to Princeton, and both of them feel like losers when they walk out. Because the husband’s like, pursuing you. And she’s like, I’m and I’m not satisfied. And we’re abnormal, in addition to the challenge that is for their marriage, they’re adding a label of abnormal and unlike everybody else. And so again, if we could if we could broaden the range of normalcy, and say, the two of you work out, what’s you, that’s what makes you unique, no prizes at the end of this thing for being the most normal. Now, that’s good. That’s really good. Well, yeah. And there’s also lots of resources for people that are in the on. Yes, yes, the less normal. We just wanted, which I really love. Go ahead. Things that we discover, as we talk about the the outliers, if you will, is that oh, it’s a bigger group than we thought, because once we made it socially acceptable, then more of them come out of the woodwork. And this is true of me when when I got my initial diagnosis of having antibody issues, they said you’re one in a million. Well, fast forward to 20 years with antibody studies. I’m in the normal range. Oh, they just know very much about antibodies back then. And how many people struggled with it, and how many, there just weren’t as many tests. So I hear sometimes that we’re doing the same thing with marriages, we’re so often the people that do the teaching on marriage are like me, they’re extroverts. And they talk to each other other extroverts. And so often, it turns out that we’re providing an extroverted value marriage picture. And fortunately, you know, books like quiet, there are more, there’s a lot more work being done at introverts to discover what’s sort of deeper and more normative for a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. And I think that that’s one thing actually, I don’t I’m not on social media, I’m not on a lot of the places where you’d ever be able to see the following of the delight your marriage podcast. And the reason I do that there’s a couple of reasons but one in particular, is because I don’t want anyone to listen to a broadcast and say, This is absolute truth. There is no way you know that 500,000 People follow them. Obviously, they’ve got the right stuff they’re bringing out I hate I kind of hate the focus that we have unfollowers and, and all that because it it almost makes a person that’s consuming the information, not question it and that’s not ever what we are told to do. We’re supposed to be going out as serpents in the, you know, as wise as serpents but gentle as doves, you know.

14:28
Yeah. And the boy I just learned oboe because they searched the scriptures to make sure this was true. I mean, yeah, we should be asking and I agree there’s that there is a deep concern I have with celebrity Christianity. There we have some wonderful Bible teachers out there that you know, they’re worth listening to. But even even those we we got to check ourselves. When Dr. Bill and I were doing conferences. About once a year I would just have to go back and re study the things I was teaching and I would find places wow, I got a little off there. Just to go back to this as a football, you know, go back to the very basics. And what it’s like once I taught something over and over, it changed in my minute ways. By 15 lecture shader, it had just changed that I had to review what I was teaching. It’s so yeah. Have you seen that in my own life? I’m definitely conscious of it as I’m listening to other speakers. Yeah, I’m so glad that you mentioned that. Yeah. In and I think it’s funny. This is a little bit of a tangent, but I think it’s worth talking about, because I think we even get to a place where we would be inconsistent to say something different than what we said before. And that’s dangerous. Because we need to be able to constantly be improving, constantly changing. And like you said, making making a change when you realize that God taught you something a little different than you originally had said. And when everything’s on Facebook, everything’s on social media, where it’s very hard to actually change what you said. I appreciate that, you know, you’ve got the strength and the wisdom and the fortitude to go ahead and make that change. One of the challenges as an author, as you you’ve engraved in stone, you know, you have you have said them, right, and I read my earlier stuff sometimes ago. Well, there was a lot of truth in there, but she’s grown a little bit since then fortunately. Yeah, there’s some of that I would like to take back. But I add that I guess that’s a good sign. Right? Yeah, it really is. It really is. And I think I’m, I did philosophy in college. And I’m trying to think of the philosopher that I think it’s Emerson, who said the hobgoblin of little minds, is to basically basically he says, You should be able to say something, what you think today and tomorrow, say something completely different, and basically not have that fear of being inconsistent? And I think that’s, that’s part of like growing as people. And I think, you know, everyone listening is on social media, to some degree, probably. And so it’s also something they’re probably grappling with, as well. So we’re all becoming better. We’re all growing at this, this thing. So I, I love your insight, because you’ve, you’ve given us a lot to grow from, which is really good. Okay, well, I want to ask how things are looking like now in your marriage after having gone through a 10 year challenge, like, what is your what is your marriage look like? Now, I would use the word durable, and in the best off, just that. You know, we’re in our year 36. Now, and it’s, it’s very little drama, it’s deep, it’s settled, it’s secure. That doesn’t mean we don’t continually have to work and weed the garden. Of course, you never lose that. But, but I know that my husband loves me in depths that I never would have seen, if I hadn’t walked through the bath we walked through and just seeing how, what a servant he was to me, and to see how he gave up a lot of his dreams. We both gave up a lot of our dreams. And that was worth it to him. And hopefully he would say the same of me that the love is it’s deeper, I would, I would say that a lot of times settled love and I use settled in a positive sense. It can, it can be a lot like a winter of growth in that. There were some seasons where you might not have seen a lot of leaves on the trees because we were just both grieving, but the roots were going deeper. So I would say we’re back in spring now. There’s just more fruit. Because it was a it was a really hard season where you really couldn’t see much growth. But it was just a long, I think Jim Peterson calls it a long obedience in the right direction or the same direction. Saying life isn’t grateful feeling right now, but I’m committed. And the hard that I’m committed and hormone stick I’m committed.

19:15
So the fertility drug made me feel like I was going insane. Really? Wow. Well, it’s interesting, you should say that because I just had a baby six, six months ago. And so some of the hormones, I actually didn’t even know that. Literally, they were affecting me in ways that the doctor later had to tell me that they were so I can only imagine that hormone levels would be incredibly challenging. And I love that you you share this, this whole picture of seasons and that’s what the Bible talks about so often is seasons and I’ve heard a number of times from from veteran wives that talk about seasons of their marriage and it’s just beautiful to think about. You know, if you wife are listening to this and you’re in the winter, listen to Dr. Sandra, she’s telling you that there’s could be roots, there could be things that are happening, even without your knowledge. To me, what would you kind of tell someone that’s in the winter? What kind of encouragement Could you share? to Ecclesiastes, he says to everything, there is a season, there was a time to tear down and a time to build up. And there are seasons of your marriage where you’re tearing down, not You’re not tearing down the marriage. But you might be tearing down all ideas that you had, or, or old habits that you had, or good habits that you had that are now stifling you. And just to recognize that when we’re in a winter of a relationship, you roots are unconscious of how slowly they’re growing. I mean, it’s scopic, that you can’t see it, and it can really look like this isn’t getting anywhere, this isn’t going anywhere. This isn’t improving. We are terrible judges of our own hormones sometimes of our own. Well, sometimes I think sometimes we can feel closest to God is not necessarily when we’re doing the best spiritually, you know, I mean, just our feelings, our feelings are very important. And we shouldn’t discount them that they’re also a terrible gauge of where we are. Yeah, that’s good. Well, and what do you think would be the the chief, three things that’s been central to your marriage, marital success so far, um, I would say first and foremost, that I was committed to Jesus Christ. And I mean, truly, Jesus Christ, not just like, using it for convenience, but truly committed to discipleship and following my Lord. And having a husband who has to really helps to I mean, I know that you can have a good friend whose marriage is flourishing. And he’s not a believer. She is, but it’s been a really hard during for her. But it is, it isn’t a good place. And in my own marriage, you know, if there were tensions that came, there were times when I just had to rely on the spirit to say, you know, you’re gonna have to change as hard I can’t change him. And sure enough, you know, sure enough, the spirit doesn’t work, it might not be as fast as we want it to happen. But the shame in me there were there. When I, when we first married, I was terrible at apologizing. I just didn’t, I might know I was wrong. But I had a hard time humbling myself. And I should have been sat me down one day and said, I acknowledge I got a lot of fault here. But what do you think are the odds that I’m actually always wrong?

22:32
That was a time out in the middle of conflict, and kind of good natured, laid? Like, are you seeing this pattern here? Like, I’m always the one who’s apologizing, and you just don’t? And that is not a good long term healthy pattern? Oh, he was. So I. I mean, can you imagine an entire marriage? We never apologize, no, that doesn’t work. So, you know, I would say, spiritual growth, a commitment to spiritual growth, which includes community, which includes being part of the body of Christ, because there were times when people could speak to one or the other of us, because they were in community with us. And I think that, in many cases, church is one big support group for your spiritual life and for your marriage. Really, I mean, it’s like a free support group that you go to every week. And fully, like you’re doing the same for other people, you know, your, your call out when they’re being dishonest, or you notice that you escalate a lot, even in public that that’s not good. Your husband can’t really like being embarrassed like that. So the two goes together, I would say, you know, a commitment to Christ and spiritual growth and community but but usually a commitment to Christ means your key that you love his bride, like he loves his bride. And even though Yeah, you know, his bride is broken and spotted and got some real problems. You still love her? Because he writes, and, you know, we’re not we’re adding to it. And we’re sinners, too. So, yeah, it’s not going to be a perfect, perfect setup. I would, I would say those two and I would say probably a third one I’ve alluded to is that you study each other. And do not try to change things that are not character issues, things that are personality. You’re never going to make your husband and an introverted be even extrovert or vice versa. You’re never going to make your husband energized by conversation if he’s if he’s not. Yeah. And so to study your man, study or woman find out what her what’s her love language, just, I, my husband love nuts all day. But if love words aren’t really how he receives love, I’d probably need to go down to the kitchen to make him his favorite homemade mac and cheese. You know, that’s not how I would receive love the most. But that’s how he received it. And if I want him to be loved in the way that he must receive love, I got to study him and appreciate his love language. Yeah, no, that’s really good. But let me add one more thing. But all these also to learn to affirm, affirm him when he, he loves me in his own love language. So for example, going to get the video last night, my personality might not even notice that he did that because that’s not how I generally receive love most. So to pay attention so that I do appreciate that he loves me in a way that may be non traditional in terms of what Balanced faces love should look like. But not look that that is an expression of love for him. It doesn’t, you know, he has thought of me, he just hasn’t thought of me to get me flowers or candies or, you know, write me poetry or something by assessing what my need is and meeting it. Yeah. No, that’s good. I love that. And even to be looking for when your husband might be doing something that you’re like, oh, that he’s loving me in that way. That’s really good. And now, you mentioned your book. And we haven’t talked to too much about intimacy yet, or we’ve talked some, but if you’re comfortable, would you be willing to share a tip about intimacy that you wish someone let you in on earlier? Yeah, sure. So the book and sexual intimacy in marriage, it’s, it’s pretty, it’s by Kriegel, and my co author, my late co author, is was William coutures, the UTR er, and he had a degree from Dallas Seminary as well. And he started out initially, he’s not a fertility doctor is an OB GYN. But he started out doing sort of our initial workup and has really helped guide us theologically through the long journey of infertility. And at the time, there wasn’t much on the market that did anything other than say, Don’t do it. It’s a sin because it’s high tech, or anything goes. And we really needed more guidance than that, because we wanted to respect life at the oneself stage, but we also Well, anyway, it wasn’t quite as cut and dried. He was frustrated, because he was the doctor, many, many seminary couples. And there were sort of two standard six texts at the time. And neither of them provided a theology of marriage, a biblical view of marriage, and oneness as and then out of that the context for technique, right? They were either like, they’re mostly just technique books, and he’s like, Yeah, most of the physical problems are solved by being kind, right.

27:27
And so I would say, I went, what I wish I had been told is that the number one sex problem is communication and talking about what you like and what you don’t like, or what you don’t know. It’s like, I don’t even know. I don’t even know what I like. I don’t know what works for me. One day, one thing and, you know, sometimes something else. Yeah, I also second that, it is just all about the honest, open communication, that that intimacy that you’re supposed to be having on every side of the bedroom, you know, so and it follows you in there, too. That’s awesome. Oh, so okay. So due to the specific marriage that you’ve had, what opportunities have you had to serve God? Or get to know him better? Well, just the whole I will be with you. I mean, yeah, praying for God, show me your word. I have picked up so much Christian subculture, and it’s really hurting me right now. You know, my, I have one view of Christian marriage, and that is you have kids and you stay at home and you have an herb garden and you wear Birkenstocks. I mean, I’m kidding with school. And, and I didn’t have any other vision for my life, it certainly didn’t involve going on for a Master’s of theology in PC. And so, I mean, I sort of went kicking and screaming back into education, simply because I never had career goals, but the doors opening for me to teach. And so I kept thinking, Okay, well, I’m not going to be a teacher. But, you know, I’m going to have a baby in six months or, you know, get pregnant in six months. But for the next six months, I need to have something to do with myself. So I’ll, I’ll take another class, I’ll take a class and something that interests me. Wow. Wow. Yeah. know, you mentioned the book, and we’re going to have this linked up sexual intimacy in marriage, because I want everyone to get a chance to, to purchase that. Now. Did you also want to give another book or program that you would specifically recommend to our audience, they can find a lot of resources from our past writings at my website at Aspire to.com It’s ASP IRA and the number two.com. And as I mentioned, the contraception guidebook has just been released as an e book by authenticity book house, and okay, so, I will say some of the some of the studies are a little outdated because we when we just re released it, we didn’t do an update Have all the medicine, but all the theology? Is there all the questions that the things that don’t change the questions about, we do really explore in great detail as the kid pill cause abortion, is it safe? UD, some of that data really hasn’t changed. And so for those who are concerned about the ethics as we were, if you’ve decided that this, that contraception is something that you’re comfortable with, then try to work through what’s ethical there. There are a lot of resources in the contraception guidebook, that was a Zondervan slash Christian Medical Association book initially. So we Okay, had we had the CMA help on that, which was really helpful. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Well, then, I wanted to ask you, kind of Lastly, if you could go back to your year, one of your marriage the first year, and sit yourself down, what is the one piece of advice that you would give to you? Well, the one piece of advice I would give to me as a newlywed would be that I need not look at all the other happy marriages and assume a that, that I’m getting the whole picture, like, it’s easy to tear yourself to everybody else and say, gosh, we we must fight more than everybody else in the world have more attention. But also, I would say that, that roles don’t have to be as rigid as I thought

31:36
that that, that idea of really rigid, like I have to be home vacuuming. Yeah, really, really caused great grief for me when I couldn’t be a mother. And that was really the only vision I had for myself and for womanhood. And it took looking at the pre industrial revolution and going to agrarian societies and being in candy with my husband did say, hey, that’s really a very middle class view. But with the kids, it’s wonderful if you can, oh my gosh, it’s wonderful for the kids. And it’s wonderful for the mom, and for the dads, if if you can work it out to to do that. But most people in most parts of the world, they’re just struggling to survive, and contributing to your husband’s financial stability is not in any way, an attack on his manhood, Jesus Christ Himself receive the income of the women who traveled with him. And, again, it’s what you work out. And we weren’t we we find this often with seminary couples, you got many cases, the husband who is full time students are suing the ministry, and you’ve got the wife who’s supporting him. And some folks think that’s sort of an attack on manhood. And I say, Baloney, if you’re, if you’re you and your marriage work out that this is what you want to do for this season of your life. It’s a form of love. It’s a form of sacrifice for the good of the unit long term. You have goals, and you’re both doing what you need to to pull them off. Yeah, no, that’s great. Awesome. Well, you mentioned Aspire to.com. But is there any other ways that our audience can connect to you online? Sure. There’s a contact form at Aspire to if you want to write to me personally, I’m okay to do that. If you are interested in looking at some of my work in the New Testament backgrounds, the Engage blog@bible.org EMG AG, the blog@bible.org. I blog every other Tuesday on those sorts of issues looking who’s Artemisa the Ephesians or what does it matter was was Timothy being misogynist? You know, Why does Peter talk about you know, being gentle quiet is the insulting women. All those questions? Me logical questions, I blog about flash rant about flash fire about over a beat engaged. Oh, man, that’s exciting. Okay, we’ll have all that linked up on on our show notes. But I’m, I’m so thrilled that you came in, talk to us. Dr. Sandra, thank you so much for everything that you shared in your time. so sweetly, a pleasure you ask great questions. It’s fun talking to you. Oh, thank you. Wow, awesome stuff, wasn’t it? Dr. Glenn has got so many wonderful resources. That’s all linked up at delight your marriage.com and I just hope that you’ve been encouraged today to really continue in whatever season you’re in the winter, the spring, the summer, the fall, you know, and to realize that God’s doing things in your midst even right now. I believe it. And I just pray that you’d be encouraged today to continue living wholeheartedly. God bless you and I love you. We’ll talk soon

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Thanks for listening. Stop by delight your marriage.com to check out all the show notes as well as many more resources and articles. Until next time, live with love, wisdom impassion