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Hi there! Belah here. Today, I have with me Debi Walter of theromanticvineyard.com. She and her husband have been helping other married couples get through their marital struggles. On this episode, she talks about something that we all are at risk of doing. It is dishing out criticism to our spouses. Debi shares her painful experience of having to go through an entire year of a rocky relationship because of a comment that she made toward her husband; a comment which caused him pain and which affected their relationship greatly. She tells us on this interview how to own up to your mistakes and how to get through these challenges, with the help of God and his Word.
Scripture/Quote:
- In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 1 Peter 1:6
- But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.” James 4:6
- “To love God does not mean to meet His needs, but rather to delight in Him and to be captivated by His glorious power and grace, and to value Him above all other things on earth. All the rest of the commandments are the kinds of things that we will do from our hearts, if our hearts are truly delighted with and resting in the glory of God’s grace.” John Piper
You’ll Discover:
- How God never lets go of us, even when we let go of Him.
- How one critical comment changed the entire relationship for Debi and her husband.
- How they eventually worked out their differences and slowly began to rebuild their marriage
- How to deliver criticisms gently
Books & Resources Mentioned:
- The Treasury of David: Spurgeon’s Classic Work on the Psalms by Charles H. Spurgeon
Tweetables:
- God uses all our mistakes for our benefit and his glory.
- Your thoughts determine your actions and your affections.
- God never lets go. Even when we do, he still holds on to us.
- Comparison is never good even when it’s in your own home.
- It’s not up to us to sanctify our marriage, it’s up to God.
- You’ve gotta be loving in your honesty too.
Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!
Love,
Belah
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Transcript
0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah. Rose.
0:17
Hi there, and welcome. This is belah rose. And I want to thank you for joining me today for the delight your marriage podcast, the show where I interview wives and intimacy experts on what it takes to have a fulfilling and wonderful marriage. Now, today, we’ve got a wonderful wife, who has been married for 30 plus years and has got quite a testimony throughout. But you can tell she loves the Lord, and she loves her husband, and she really cares about sharing her heart with you and what mighty difficulty she had. Just from one critical word that she said to her husband and how it affected the rest of that year and even longer. So listen in, and I’ll talk to you on the other side.
1:20
All right, well, welcome back to let your marriage listener I am thrilled to have Miss Debbie Walters from the romantic vineyard.com Hi, Debbie. Thanks for being here. Hi, belah.
1:30
Thanks for having me.
1:32
My pleasure. My pleasure. Well, would you be willing to introduce yourself and your family and a little bit of your day to day life,
1:40
I would love to. Tom and I have been married for 36 and a half years. And we we tell people 33 of those were happy. The other three have a story and a testimony, which is what we thank God for. But I have three grown children, two of which decided to move out of state so they don’t live nearby. And they happen to be the ones that have all of our grandchildren, which has happened in the last four years, we’ve got seven grandchildren, and the eighth one is due in October. So they’ve been busy. They’ve been married nine and 10 years, and eight children between the two of them. So they’ve been having a good time. Yes. So now the hard works began for them. And we live far away. So I call myself the faraway Nana, which is a title I never wanted to have. But God has helped me see that there’s reason for the distance. And sometimes it helps to have a long range view. And you can see things better from a distance and you can up close. So I’m starting to see the good of that, even though it’s hard. But Skype is wonderful, and all the long distance so and it’s also allowed Tom and I’d have a lot more alone time, which has been very healthy for us. So and we’re loving the empty nest. Oh, great. So
2:57
I’m looking forward to that myself.
2:59
Yes. It’s wonderful. work now. It’ll be good then.
3:05
Huh? That’s good. I want you to dive into more of that. Yes. Sounds awesome. Well, can you tell us a little bit about you and your husband’s personalities?
3:15
Yes. I’m the one that has the typical five, however many 25,000 words a day. And my husband is slow to speak quick to listen and used to drive me crazy. But now I see the benefit of him being so slow to speak because he does listen to me. And sometimes he hears more than he should. And that he’s very, very patient very kind, very wise. Now that after 36 years, I see that when we first married, I was just going through some of our posts from a while ago and one that sticks out to me was I wrote a letter to my newlywed self of what I would wish I could tell myself now then that I know now. And so you can find that one point on our blog if you’re interested. But it was very insightful to go back and just think, okay, I remember who I was then. And so grateful for who God has made me today. And you know, we all wish we could go back and have a redo a reset. But, you know, God uses all the mistakes that we make for his good and for our benefit. And even though our pride doesn’t necessarily like it, it’s always beneficial because God doesn’t waste anything. He uses everything. He uses the delays, he uses our mistakes, he uses everything for his glory. And if we see that, then we’ll embrace everything that we face. The Good, the Bad, all of it. So anyway, my head I very sorry.
4:43
No, no, I was just gonna say I was just gonna pull out from that what you said specifically, God uses all of our mistakes, for our benefit and for His glory. And it’s just powerful to hear after 36 years to have that kind of perspective is beautiful.
4:58
Yes, yes, it didn’t come in Izzy, I will tell you, it behind that sentence are a lot of tears and a lot of heartache. But through it all God never lets go even when we let go, he never lets go. And that’s grace. That’s just the picture of grace that is undeserved. Even when we’re at our worst he still reaches and holds on to us. So but anyway, my husband, he’s He is amazing. I’m the talker. So most people on the blog know more about me than about him. They learn about him through me talking about him. So, but I am who I am today because of him. And because of God. So yeah, the two of them has made me a much better me.
5:44
Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, that’s funny that you say that you’re more of the talker. That’s my household too. I’m more of the talker than my husband. He’d he prefer to sit in a corner quietly. Yes. Observe? Yes, yes.
5:56
I’ve told my husband I journal. I’m an avid journal er. So I said, you realize how many words I’ve spared you from having to listen to? Because I’ve got on my 62nd volume of journal. Oh, my gosh. Oh, is that? Wow, that’s incredible. Wow. Yeah.
6:13
What do you find is helpful about journaling, just as a side?
6:17
Well, because I’m a writer, I think with my hands. So a lot of if there was a season God took me through, or he told me didn’t want me to write in my journal. And it was really difficult, because I process by writing. And so it was, I felt like I had been sidelined. And but it was a good exercise for me, because then I learned that I need to just kind of wait before I write, I’m so quick to write it out. So it was a good exercise. But I’m glad it only happened once. But the writing just helps me to think through my struggle. I don’t allow my journal to be a dumping station that I’ve heard a lot of women do they say, Well, I don’t want anybody read my journal. Well, I’ve always written my journal with other people in mind, thinking that my kids are going to read this one day, my grandkids are going to read this one day, I want them to see how I’m processing in a way that glorifies God, when I’m not saying that it’s all perfect. But hopefully they see the struggle and they see the honest tug of war that’s going on in my own heart to get God’s perspective. And so I’ve told my kids, I said, you read anything in my journal, I want you to know if there’s anything I forgot to go back and, and settle if I was praying for you fervently or whatever, and I never come back and say, God did this. There’s nothing left unresolved in my heart, I don’t want you to read it and think that, you know, I’m still struggling with something. Maybe I was struggling at one point, because my son is a lot like me. And he said, I’m going to read every journal when you’re gone. I said, Well, that’s why I wrote them.
7:50
So So that’s so precious. Yeah, though. This is really what this interview is all about. This podcast is all about encouraging, and helping wives to see the long picture and process through their own hearts and their own lives. So it’s really to inspire and help wives with that. So would you be willing to share a scripture or a quote, that has meant a lot to you over the years? Or even recently?
8:12
Oh, yes, my I call it my life verse, it’s in first Peter may pull it up here, so I don’t miss it at all. First, Peter one, it starts with first six. In this, you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold, that parishes though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. And this is the part I love, Though you have not seen him, you love him, that you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls. So that’s my heart cry, I know that every difficulty I go through is not for nothing, that I can actually rejoice in it. Because I know that God has a greater purpose in it. And I have to remind myself that on a regular basis, because when the emotions come in like a flood, you know, you can hardly rein that in. And then you can’t reason when you’re in an emotional state. So that’s why scriptures like that help help tether me to the truth. So that you know, even though I may be pulled, I’m not going to be drifting. So the word of God does that
9:32
like nothing else. Yeah, it’s so true. It’s so true. And can you share what your kind of habit is about scripture reading? Because I think that would encourage others to hear just
9:44
Yeah, you do that actually, the Lord gave me a real I don’t know when it was probably 20 years ago, I had a really good friend. She’s an older woman in the faith that I highly respect that God has used over and over in my life, to challenge me to the Next step, and one time I was at her cabin up in North Carolina for a retreat, and she found out that I had never read through the Bible. And she came about came off of her chair because she couldn’t believe it. I mean, my husband’s a leader in the church, and she can you mean to tell me you’ve never read through God’s word? And it’s like, well, no, but I know a lot of it. And so anyway, she took it on herself for the next year to have me over once a week, and we read through the one year Bible, so she didn’t just tell me what I needed to do it. But she came alongside me and helped me and make made sure I did it. So after that, one year, of being with her, my life was never the same. I, every morning, when I’d wake up, I just had the sense that Jesus was in the living room waiting for me just to come in, because he wanted to share with me and read, you know, and have me read his word that he gave to us. So it’s precious. So that got me through the first few years where it was awkward. And it he just, he just stirred in my heart, a desire to be with him in the same way I haven’t needed to be as my husband. And you know, just a relationship. It’s not just a duty, it’s a delight, like John Piper says, No, that’s, that started me on the journey of reading through God’s word, and I don’t read it, you know, we’re all the way through every year, it just depends on what God has me do. In fact, this year, he had me, he said, this year, I don’t want you to have a plan. And I went, Oh, that’s kind of weird. And so it was really a challenge. Because I’m, I’m, uh, I’m used to, I start doing something one way. And then I tend to keep doing that until forever. And that’s just my bent. And I’m seeing that that can be a good thing. And that can also not be such a good thing, because then you get used to the routine. And we all know ruts aren’t a good place to be. So I think God did that just to kind of stretch me a little bit and make me more dependent. So I’m just kind of taken it a month at a time what he wants me to read. And, but it’s been really good. I’ve spent a lot of time in Psalms that Spurgeon has a bunch of sermons based on this called the treasuries of David. And it’s precious. I mean, he just goes into depth when you think, you know, a psalm, then you read what Spurgeon has to say, and it’s, it takes you deeper. And that’s kind of where I feel like I am right now the Lord just saying, I want to take you deeper. And I don’t know exactly what that means. And when he first said it, it was a little bit disturbing. It’s like, okay, huh. But so far, it’s been really good.
12:33
Wow, that’s really exciting. Yeah, I love that. Well, I hope that you’ll keep in with this, this theme of hearing from God and when not when you share about your story, because really, a lot of us learn through I mean, really, the fire gets purified in the in the trials and the difficulties, right, so. So I’d love to hear your your the struggle that you wanted to share
12:58
with us, okay, well, this was your 18. So I’ve got a little bit of perspective now, as we just about doubled that time. But this was, I think all women deal with this from one time to another, where you look at your husband, and you see that they have lack. And somehow you usually don’t feel comfortable telling them, but you harbor it in your heart. And then you start viewing them based on what your perspective is. And then slowly, if you’re not paying attention, it can start to cause you to look at them with almost disdain. And that’s a powerful word, I don’t think I would have used that word when I first realized this, this what God was doing. But now when I look back, I see that’s really what I was doing. So what happened is one night, I made the observation. This was after I started reading God’s word more and doing that. So then obviously, I started comparing what I was doing with what my husband was doing. And I saw a big difference. And I thought, well, I’m doing more than he is. And so which led me down the path of comparing which comparison is never good, even when it’s within your own home. I mean, most women struggle with comparing with other women. But in this case, I was comparing my walk with God compared to my husband’s walk with God. And so, being the loving wife that I am, I asked, I told my husband one night that I, I thought and I honestly thought that this was a helpful thing to say. I said, I think that you love me more than you love God. And, and he said, really? And I said, Yeah, because you’d never, you’ll never miss a date night with me. You look forward to him, but I see you skipping time alone with him. And although my observation was probably had some vein of truth in it, the way in the heart that it was shared was not good. And so my husband became He is a humble man. He heard what I said, respected what I said, even though he shouldn’t have. And he took it to heart. And he said, Well, I don’t think I can love God anymore. So I must need to love you less. He didn’t tell me he was thinking that that’s just where his thought process went, which led us on a roller coaster for the next year, where he pulled away from me. And he’s never done that before ever. And so I had never experienced having a husband look at you with a cold shoulder. And that’s, that’s what happened. And we would go to counseling, we’d call our pastors crying, you know, please help us we don’t know what to do. And my husband even looked at me and said, I just don’t, I don’t feel like I love you anymore. And that crushed me. And I, I’m just crying. I don’t know what to do. And I apologize. I said, I shouldn’t have said what I said, and But God still hadn’t got in my heart. He was still after me. So there was one night we were laying in bed, and I was just so tired of the struggle. I mean, at the same time, we’re leading a small group at our church, I’m homeschooling my three kids, and life is going and my husband had owns his own business life is going on as normal. No one else knows. But our hearts are far apart. And, and we both felt the coldness. And because we’ve had such a strong marriage, our whole marriage, even through the ups and downs, this was the first time where we both kind of felt alone in our struggle, because we couldn’t come together to work on it. Because he was having to go get he, I mean, he would just walk out of the house at night and go over to our pastor’s house to talk like 11. And I wouldn’t know when he’s gonna come back. I mean, I was glad he was talking to the pastor. But still, it didn’t make me feel any better that we couldn’t settle this. So one night, I was laying in bed, and as clear as I’ve ever heard or thought, I heard God speak to my heart. I heard him say, Who made you the standard? Hmm. And I was crushed is anybody that’s whenever you feel the conviction of God, come down on you. I immediately is like God shined a light in my heart and showed me that I was judging. And the Bible says in the same way you judge others, you will be judged. And I feel like I was experiencing that. The fruit of my judgment, you know, my critical judgment is a critical judgment of my husband. And so when he said that, to me, it cut to my heart, and I all of a sudden saw how wrong I was to have ever said that to my husband. So I repented to God repenting with tears to my husband. It affects me even to this day, I can’t talk about it without tearing up. But realize that, and then my husband when I told him that, he just rolled over and went to sleep.
17:58
And I just laid there as like, Oh, my goodness, I don’t know what to do. I have I’ve, I’ve crushed him. And I can’t fix this. And on for, we went on for a little while. Quite a while still after that. Struggling just kind of maintaining, but all the time in such pain. Yeah, we went away on a business trip. And of course, we’re functioning outwardly like, everything’s normal. But still, you know, I still don’t know how to fix it. We’re just kind of waiting on my husband. I knew you would never leave me. You know, that was not an issue. But I didn’t want to live like this. And that I didn’t know how to fix it. Like I said, so we were in the hotel, they were having like the closing event and they always have a band and dancing or whatever. So you’re out on the dance floor. And we don’t fast dance. But we like to. He will slow dance. So we went up. Yeah, whenever there’s slow dance song, we’ll go out there. Even in the midst of all this, we go out we’re on the dance floor. And this song came on which you all all are familiar with it by Bette Midler Wind Beneath My Wings. And I just um, you know, we’re not hardly talking to each other. So he’s, we’re dating but I’m listening to the words. And the words of the song are Did you ever know that you’re my hero. You’re everything I wish I could be. I can fly higher than Eagle because you’re the wind beneath my wings and mile that song was playing the Lord was just saying, you don’t realize you are who you are today because of the way your husband loves you and cares for you. And and I just was a mess on the dance floor. Right? So when I told Tom that we got back to our hotel room, I told him that and I cried again and repented I realized what the issue that God was after was I didn’t respect Tom. And God wouldn’t stop even when he showed me that I wasn’t the standard that was The pride of my heart. But when, when he on the dance floor that night when he showed me how much our marriage relationship goes together, side by side, and how I am a better person because of him, and vice versa, because God uses each, both of us to fill in the gaps of our weaknesses so that we can use stronger in places where we wouldn’t be. Yeah, the fact that I may have a more consistent quiet time at the time, it doesn’t mean that Tom’s relationship with God is any less. It’s just different. And it’s not my place to ever. I mean, certainly there’s times to ask your spouse a good question, how how’s your soul How you doing? But the way that I was asking it was critical and not helpful. And so after that, it was like, the Lord just shone a light on my disrespect. And I was able to repent a time of that. And immediately, his motions came back. Oh, wow. And our marriage has never been the same since that that year, but like I say, God, he doesn’t waste anything. And he’s not going to stop until he gets the full measure of what it is he’s after. And, you know, we have to moderate with him even when we’re in place where we don’t like it, and we’d much rather run here. He’s still not gonna let up, you know, there’s a song out now thinks by Chris Tomlin, you never let go through the fire in your own, oh, no, You never let go. You never, you never let go of me. And that’s the truth and so grateful. Because it’s not us. It’s not up to us to sanctify ourselves or our marriage. It’s his job. And it’s just a matter of if we’re willing to listen, and respond and do what he has. So
21:48
yeah, that’s powerful. I think that this is going to be convicting a lot of us here listening, because it’s just so powerful to be looking at our husbands in a respectful way. But then also, but I think the the thing that you really are bringing out here, which is so beautiful, is how you responded to it. So you made the critical judgment. But then you were willing to let the Holy Spirit convict you about this criticism, right? How would you advise a wife who just feels like there’s something on her heart that she needs to tell her husband about? That? Sounds like a criticism, how should she do it?
22:27
Well, I’ve been taught very well, we’re in a church. That’s amazing. As far as teaching truth, and Tom and I have also gone through a lot of biblical counseling to get to where I’m not just giving an idea, but it’s, it’s based on the Bible. Yeah, it’s the the the counseling that we went through, was it Nink? I don’t know. It’s not called Nate now, but it’s national nouthetic counseling. I don’t remember. But anyway, you probably familiar with that. If a woman was asking for how do you go about doing that? The best way is to posture your heart, in a humble way. Because the Scripture that really came home home for me, was James four, six, God opposes the proud, but he gives grace to the humble. So not only if we say it in the wrong way, not only is our husband not gonna respond, but God’s opposing us. And you know, not but in a loving way, you know, we’re his, so he’s, you know, when some people hear that they, they think, you know, condemnation. That’s not what I’m saying, it’s not condemnation, because there’s no condemnation for those who are in Christ. But there is conviction, and God will oppose us, which means that he’s not going to give us our way, because He loves us too much. Just like with our kids, we’re going to oppose our children, when they’re doing something we know is not good for them. It doesn’t mean that we don’t love them. And they don’t need to be condemned about it, they just need to obey. And that’s the way God treats us. So we need to posture ourselves in a in a way of realizing that my sin is greater than my husband sin, because I know more of my own heart than I know of his heart. So if we realize that, and that God’s grace covers my sin, then I can look at him and say, you know, I’ve made I’ve made an observation, is it okay for me to share it with you, and because sometimes it may not be the right time, you know, or husbands, you know, they have a lot on their shoulders, so they could not be in the place to talk about So timing is everything. And if it may be that you plan a time, I want to talk to you, I’ve done that with Tom, before I need to talk to you about something, can we plan some time. And so then we’ll we’ll plan time to where we can either go out or, you know, after dinner whenever, you know, when the kids were asleep, everything that we could not be interrupted, and then just say, Could it be you know, I’ve made these observation could it be this rather than saying you never you always you know, we don’t use absolutes. We that’s never profitable to say you never do this or you you know, because that’s that’s just Not true. And it’s not it’s not helpful. It kind of puts up their defenses. Right? Yes. So you don’t want to do that you want to do everything that you can you appeal to them, you you say, I’ve noticed this, I’ve noticed this. And it’s always helpful to have examples of what you’re talking about, don’t come with generalizations in, you know, in, don’t come with your finger pointed. You know, when we had a pastor a long time ago used to say, when you’re pointing one finger at somebody, there’s three pointing back at you. So realizing that, you know, we don’t have, we don’t have the right to come accusing. Yeah, but we do have the responsibility to be honest with our husbands and share what we’re what we see, that’s part being a helper to our husbands. And I know many wives that we’ve encountered through the years are afraid of their husbands. And they say, Oh, I could never tell him that. And then if that’s the case, then there’s more work in the marriage that needs to be done that doesn’t have anything to do with this issue. You know, that that goes to something even more foundational, because as their helper, it is coming alongside them and helping them see things from a different perspective. And so it is our responsibility, but it’s not easy.
26:22
Yeah. Well, I also like, like how your story really shows how important words are that just just one, one phrase one sentence then made an entire year of serious difficulty. And I definitely I was married previously. And I know that my critical, it was like a pattern of criticism, both on both ends. And that is just, I mean, it’s detrimental. It’s detrimental to marriages. So
26:54
go ahead. It’s like a cancer. Yeah, is what that does. And even if if, you know, some women may think it and never say it, but it doesn’t matter, as you think in your heart. So you know, that’s how you will be. So your thoughts determine actions and and also affections. So we really do have to take captive our thoughts. We can’t, we can’t feel free. Well, I’m just or just to say, Well, I’m just being honest, you know, to our husbands when we are approaching him well, I’m just being honest and telling you what I’m thinking. Well, no, yeah, you can’t do that you’ve got to be loving is in your honesty, too. And so, I mean, we’ve shared that with counseling couples, many, many times, because we’ve heard that was just being honest telling you what I’m thinking.
27:42
Right. Right. Right. And then it’s horrible thing was disturbed. Talk about in a way that was, yeah, there you go. fire was lit up. Yeah, that’s awesome. I love that you said your thoughts determine your actions, but also your affections, which is really good. So that was the first half of my interview with Debbie. And she has got a lot more to share, including her tip on intimacy that I think you are not going to want to miss. So definitely listen in on Thursday for the rest of this interview. Okay. God bless you. Let’s just say a prayer. Father, if there’s anyone listening, I just pray that if they have had the issue of criticism and critical judgments in their marriage, Lord, I just ask that you would give them the grace to be humble and to apologize when they need to apologize. Father, this breaks marriages from their core. We don’t even realize but criticism this judgmental attitude can break a marriage. And so I just ask, Lord, that You would give us the grace to be humble. And any wife or husband out there that needs to repent and needs to apologize, God would you help them? And would you help them make it right? In Jesus name, amen. Okay, I love you and I’m praying for you in your marriage. God bless you. We’ll talk soon.
29:01
Thanks for listening. Stop by delight your marriage.com to check out all the show notes as well as many more resources and articles. Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion.