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Hi there! Belah here. Today, I have with me Jen Ferguson of solideogloriasisterhood.com. On this episode, she talks about how porn created friction between her and her husband and made her doubt herself. Jen also discussed how she tried very hard to manipulate and control everything, but she learned to let go later on. And because she had loosened up, she was able to help fix her husband’s porn addiction because she understood more, because she took a step back and saw the entire picture. Together, Jen and her husband fought against porn addiction and for their marriage.

 

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You’ll Discover:

• How Jen realized that her being too controlling had hurt her and the marriage she was in
• That the only cure for addiction is Jesus
• Her message to women who have husbands addicted to porn
• The problems created by her husband’s porn addiction
• How she realized that all these problems are only temporary

 

Scripture or Quote:

• Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23

Tweetables:

• If God’s hope is our life jacket, then we can really get through any storm.
• When we’re trying to manipulate and control everything, where does God have the space in our lives and in our marriage?
• Anything that has to do with sex is so precious to God, and Satan is really intent on destroying that – the purity and the intention.
• Porn is not about sex; it’s about fantasy, escape, and control.

 

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

 

Love,

Belah

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Transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah rose.

0:19
Hello, hello, this is belah rose, thank you so much for turning us on today. The delight your marriage podcast, we come out every Tuesday. And I want to thank you so much for spending your time with me today. Now I want to share with you an iTunes review that we received. I love reading the reviews, it really encourages me. But this one says, for such a young podcast, the depth of content and beautiful vulnerability shown by belah and the guests is unparalleled. This subject matter is so important and every marriage needs to hear it. I can’t wait for new episodes. This is the very first podcast to hook me well done. So thank you so much for that. That’s just an awesome review. And thank you to everyone that has reviewed before, because it really makes a difference not only to me, it encourages me. But it also makes a difference on iTunes and how we are on the charts. So a review is so so helpful. So thank you so much for doing that for me. All you have to do if you haven’t yet is go to your on your podcast, app search, delight your marriage. And then once it pops up, click on the episode and then click reviews. So thank you so much for that. That’s awesome. Now today, we have a wonderful show for you. I get to interview Jennifer Ferguson and she has just such a beautiful heart, a beautiful spirit, you’ll listen and hear just how much she has gone through. But then also how she’s come through it holding on to Jesus. And I just love the example that she gives for us. But she talks about a really serious subject to pornography and how that addiction in her husband’s life, how that affected her in her marriage. And I wanted to make sure I interviewed Jennifer because I think she’s got a story that can help so many people because so many are struggling with this. I’ve had women reach out to me and tell me this is exactly what’s going on in their marriages. So listen in. I think Jen has got some amazing insights for you

2:30
all right, well, welcome back delight your marriage listener. I’m thrilled and excited to have Jen Ferguson, and she’s actually going to talk a lot about To God be the glory, which is her website, but it’s pronounced something. I’m gonna let her pronounce it. So welcome, Jen. How are you doing today?

2:46
Good. Thank you. Yes. Um, I host a community of women called the soli, Deo Gloria sisterhood. And it’s Latin, for to God alone be the glory. And and basically, it’s a place where we have women’s stories, ranging from abortion all the way to just walking with God and are feeling apart from God, in the hope that a woman would come to this site and with her burden and know that her burden is not hers alone, that someone has journeyed with the same burden before her and have found hope and rescue from Jesus. So it’s just a place where people can come and get a big dose of hope.

3:25
Oh, I love that. Yes, that’s just so good. You know, I was talking to someone. Just yesterday, a good friend of mine, and I was telling her about some difficulties that I’m going through. And I loved the way she just listened. And she just let me whether I was crying or just, you know, having my moment. She just let me and I think that’s a, I think that’s a moment you can realize that someone’s really gone through suffering is when they can hold you in your suffering and say, yep, just let it out. Just let it out. Which is so healing and so good. So that’s beautiful. Now, Jen, would you go ahead and introduce yourself, your family, your day to day life? What it looks like,

4:06
my day to day crazy? No. As we all are, yeah, yeah. Craig and I, Craig, my husband, we’ve been married for 15 years. And we have two kids. And Abby is 11 just started middle school. And Hannah is nine and in fourth grades are 18 months apart. So I feel like we have just kind of traveled as this little unit all together. And now they’re in different schools. And so they’re kind of forming their own identity. And yeah, Craig and I have walked at a good road but a hard road and you know, it really influenced how we parent and how we even tried to shepherd our kids friends and knowing the importance of who Jesus is and why we need his radical transformation in in our lives. So that I basically blog and and disciple women in the hope that we can really impact not only our generation, but I’ve chosen generation two.

5:08
Yeah. That’s beautiful. That’s awesome. It can you tell me a little bit about you and Craig’s personalities,

5:15
we are very different. In fact, we were sitting at the dining room table the other night talking about how different we are, because our kids are very different. And we said to them, you know, what would it be like, if you had two people, parent you that are just like mom, or two parent, people, that parent, you just like that. And they were both like, oh, my gosh, I could either be hyper organized and super, you know, tending toward the rigidly rigid schedule and expectation, or the house would be a total disaster, and everything would be a free for all. So we were just showing them that, you know, God put people together that complement each other, because neither one of those extremes are beneficial at all, um, you know, when you’re only living in that they have their gifts, and they have their downfalls. And so it God to bring harmony into, oh, once to get there. You realize that your way is not the only way. Um, it really does balance out the family. So I’m the type A, he is the relaxed one.

6:26
Mm hmm. Yes, I love the complementary thing that my husband and I are the same way. It’s just it just would be crazy with with both of us being the same. And I totally agree with that. That’s awesome. So I’d mentioned beforehand that this podcast is really all about inspiring wives, to really live wholehearted and in their intimacy and in their marriages. So would you be able to share a scripture or a quote that’s meant a lot to you over the years?

6:54
Yes, Hebrews 1023. It says, Let us hold too tightly without wavering to the hope that we affirm that God can be trusted to keep his promises. That really being the type A and just how I was raised, I thought it was my responsibility to fix everything and keep everything together. And and so when I was confronted with my husband, porn addiction, my first response was to fix it. And not only to fix him, but clearly to fix myself, right? Because I thought that he was using porn because of me. And I, because I didn’t I didn’t know at the time that that, that there was not a direct connection. Yeah, but you know, when you find your husband, looking at women on the internet and your firt, you assume that you it’s your fault, because you are, you know, are don’t have, you know, the boob size or, you know, waist size, right? friskiness in bed or whatever. Right. And so I knew that porn was not something that I could live with. And, and so I just thought, because I was the one that didn’t want it. I needed to get it out. And yeah, I did not it on the surface, I think I turned to God in the sense that I prayed word helped me help me through this, or Lord, heal him or whatever. But it’s one thing to pray the prayer and then leave it at the cross. It’s the other thing to pray the prayer and you walk away with the burden that you brought with you. Right, right. And that’s what I did for many years, is carry this burden around and tried to untangle this huge mess of just sin and my sin and his sin, you know, because we both bring it in to the marriage, right? Everybody does. And so when that verse is just meant so much to me, because when if you go back to the the Greek text, that whole concept of can we can hold on? Is it like we’re wearing a life jacket, and we can, you know, if God’s hope is our life jacket, then we can really get through any storm. And yeah, it doesn’t necessarily change the storm. The storm is still there, but he promises to be with us in that and bring us through it.

9:15
Hmm, yeah, that’s powerful. I, that’s definitely a verse that needs to be meditated on. For me for sure. That’s, that’s powerful. Well, I think you started to tell us, but can you share about a difficult struggle in your marriage, and how you’ve kind of come through it?

9:32
I think that, you know, obviously the porn was, it was a huge blow to me personally and in in our marriage. But I think that what it boiled down to is Craig had appointed addiction because he had whole bases in his heart that only Jesus could fill. And, and what made me realize is how much I was clinging to control, to try to make myself feel whole insecure. And No, the thing is, is that we can try to hold if we hold tightly to everything. And we think that it’s all in our hands. You our external situations might seem like they’re okay. But internally, we’re just crumbling because we weren’t made to hold the whole world in our hand. We weren’t making, we weren’t made to orchestrate orchestrate the lives of our husbands or our family, even though that’s what the world kind of tells us that it is our responsibility as a wife and a mom, we are like the CEOs of our household. And, you know, we say the thing kind of jokingly, but when you think about, like, the burden, that that fits on us, and how that that manifests that, that burden manifests in our lives, we just end up cracking into No wonder like, we feel at the end of the day, like broken or, or even pulled in so many different directions, like how can I possibly continue to keep up at this pace? You know, what if, what if I dropped the thing? What’s that going to look like? And I and I feel like the process of going through Craig’s porn addiction, as God just showed me, Lucjan, I really have got this, you do not have to structure your life so that you, you and everybody else is okay. Like, that’s my job. And when you when you hold on to everything so tightly, you choke out the growth, you know, because I can’t see what is kind of like, you know, sometimes we just have to let our kids fail. And that is so like, hard. I mean, especially for me, I don’t want my kids to fail. But what if they go through life, when they’re young, never experiencing failure? Like what when they hit the real world, I want them to know that God is going to be there. But they need to practice that when they’re young and relatively safe. You know what I’m saying? With our husband, if we’re trying to control and manipulate everything, where does God have the influence in their life? And in our marriage?

11:59
Hmm. Yes, I love that when you’re trying to manipulate or control everything. Where does God have the space? Right? That’s powerful. So So can you tell us a little bit more of the story? So when you found out that he was looking at porn, I mean, what was that like for you?

12:18
I, I had the first year we were married, I had suspicions. And I never thought anything, but like, just and I’m pretty intuitive person. So like, when I would come around the corner, and he would immediately close the window on the computer, or, you know, there was like a stain on the chair, we had a crack chair. And then there was this random Pay Per View charge. And so I had all these suspicions. But it wasn’t until we are in a second year of marriage, that I was on a computer looking something up, and he forgot to clear the history. And so I actually saw what he was looking at. And he was home at the time. And I called him in and I was like, What is this? And he immediately was like, I’m so sorry. You know, it’s just a one time thing. It’s not a big deal. I promise I won’t do it again, whatever. And because I didn’t understand, really the concept of addiction. Yeah, because I did not understand that there was a thing called porn addiction. I was like, okay, all right. I mean, I’m hurt. And I’m like, and of course, I went internal with all of my like, oh my gosh, I’m not good enough. I need to pay I mean, whatever. Um, but it wasn’t until Mother’s Day we’re after our both of our kids were born. Hannah was six months old, that he had gone to get a haircut, which was a big deal, because we have very little money. So like to spend anything on on ourselves was just, it was just a big deal. And so I gone to get a haircut. And when I got there, the salon was closed. And so I drove back feeling very disappointed. But I opened the door and Abby was my oldest was watching TV. And it was so loud. And then I but I could hear my other daughter crying in the bedroom, and I thought, oh, maybe Craig was changing your diaper or whatever. And I go in there, and she’s all by herself. So I pick her up. And then I turned and walked down the hall and I saw the study door closed. And that was like I just knew, and I just knew what it was. It blew my mind because I was like, Okay, so now this is not because I caught him a couple of times in between there and now right? Then the first time and then Mother’s Day, and I was just like, This is not only wrecking our marriage, but now it’s interfering with him being able to be the father that I knew that he could be. And so, um, I walked in and I was like, I mean, I just couldn’t even it was it was awful. And yes, yeah, so he obviously shut down the computer and came out and I handed him the baby and I just went and cried in the bathroom floor and I was just like, we’re what and I’m really sending the What the What the hell did you find you I think that this was gonna be a good idea, you know, all of my insecurities. You know, you know, my parents got divorced right after Craig and I got married and just watch their marriage disintegrate, you know, over two decades. And I was like, I wanted more than this. And you did not you failed me. The very raw, honest conversation, and because at that time, like, like I said, I didn’t know that porn was really a thing. I mean, I knew the thing, but it was like a CD, like, not your average person does this, you know, right, that rocked my world. And then to know that this was something he could not control like that he kept going back to no matter what I had done, no matter what rules we had been put in place. Because, you know, when I first when I realized that this was continuing to be a problem, before the Mother’s Day event, at we set up all these rules, right? Because what do you do when you want to control a situation, you create rules, so that there, there will be some sort of, you know, incentive to, to not write like if their rules and you know, I just did not realize that part of human behavior, I guess, are really the rebellious streak in Cray, and really, that by implementing all these rules, like coming from the top down, like from me down, he felt totally painted, you know?

16:21
Anyway, just after laying on my floor and praying, and saying, God, like, I don’t know why you did this to me, and will this this is never gonna get better. God just said, Okay. You know, do you want to do it my way now? And I was like, Oh, yeah. And at that moment, it was just a supernatural moment where I realized how I was trying to play the Savior. And I realized, like, how exhausted I was, and that I did not have a cure for Craig’s point addiction that I would never have a cure for. cardpointe addiction, because the cure for Craig point addiction with Jesus? Yeah. And two things like number one, I cannot be Jesus to Craig, when I’m all in my own head trying to control and manipulate every situation. And if I am not surrendered to Jesus, how can I really reflect that to him, and it because I, because of my own hurt, and my own you no sense of betrayal. I was reflecting my anger and bitterness. And it didn’t come out every day. And it didn’t come out, like necessarily in conversations about porn, but it came out sideways. And when he didn’t do the dishes, or he didn’t do that, or he could have done that better, you know, it was all that bitterness was based in the point of addiction, but I couldn’t, I didn’t know how to talk about it. And it was almost like I was afraid, well, if I, if I bring it up, then he can remember that he’s an addict and want to go back to watching it, you know, I’m crazy. But I don’t know, I just, I feel like God did such a good work in allowing the porn addiction to continue to come to light. And to not allow Craig to continue to live in that not only that sin, but in that place of despair and desperation. You know, he escaped because he didn’t understand that. It was his own issues of self worth and his own fears of rejection and his own inability to deal with real life when it got hard. And so there was obviously a need for Jesus to be able to rescue him out of that hole and show him that there was a better way, because the world of porn is so dark, and there’s so much despair. And it’s a you know, it leads to a disruption of everything good that God created sex to be. Yes, and not just for the marriages, but for the poor women and men trapped in this sex industry, and in the sex trafficking and everything. And I know, when I knew at this time that Craig is a person of integrity, and he didn’t even eat because he was so trapped up in that physical sensation and that escape world. He, he could, he didn’t equate it to realize like, these are real people being devastated by this industry. And once God started pulling him out, like he realized, oh, my gosh, you know, I would never want my wife or daughter trapped in this. How can I support? How can I view something that is so against what God intended creation to be?

19:34
Right? Right. Yeah. A couple of things I want to ask you. One was when you said you hadn’t no idea the concept of porn addiction, and it being an actual addiction. What did you mean by that?

19:48
I think I didn’t understand that. People could be addicted to sex, you know, and I was 19 when I met Craig and and I just didn’t have a whole lot of worldly experience. You know, I felt I guess I led a really sheltered life. In high school and in in, I was only in my second year of college when I met him. And so I just hadn’t been exposed to that world. And, and now I and I feel like now my kids are so much more, it’s so much easier to fall into that because now because the internet is so popular, I mean, I remember going to college my first year and getting an email address, like this was big news. And now, you know, my nine year old has an email address. Um, and so the Internet porn and and an even, you know, I feel like that is really what continued to entrap Craig, because no longer did he have to go to like the video stores, right and, and people see his car there or whatever. Um, anyway, and so I just feel like that just made it so much more accessible. And with any addiction, the more you’re exposed to, you know, it’s like an alcoholic. The more you go to bars, the more you drink, the more interest you get. Right? Yes. And, and I just didn’t realize that that could happen with sex and it but it makes total sense. Because you’re when you’re having sex, and you you know, have that sexual release, your body is releasing hormones like crazy, right? And right, yeah, you get that dopamine and serotonin and all that feel good stuff. And, and just like alcohol and drugs, like you want more and more, right. And if you’re not using it within having sex within the context of your marriage, it’s going to destroy you. Because it’s just like with drugs, like you have to do a little bit more heroin or now you need to add Coke, or now you need whatever. The world of porn has many different levels. They’re all bad, but they just get darker and darker. And and so

21:53
yeah, I think that’s really true. And I think that’s important for a wife who has found out that her husband is doing porn, or has done it in the past that this is more of a chemical release than anything else, right? Yeah. So you also mentioned that there’s not a direct link between actually having sex and being addicted to porn in terms of solving this issue. So when you were saying that it started to feed on your insecurities to make you think like, why am I not good enough? Or is our sex not good enough? Or that kind of thing? And And how has that changed for you in terms of thinking about this? Well, I

22:27
think it was really helpful for me to realize that Craig, porn addiction started even before he met me. And so he he was using this like, so what what I think is really important to understand is that porn is not about sex. Porn is about fantasy, and escape and control. And so now it has an impact on what God created sex to be in your marriage, for sure. But Craig wasn’t, he knew we, I mean, he knew we could have sex like it was available. But if you think about why men start pursuing porn, it might start out as innocent you know, a lot of boys, eight 910 11 See porn, and it’s a curiosity thing. But because of you, anything that has to do with sex is so precious to God, that Satan is really intent on destroying that the purity yes, that goes, you know, the purity and the intention and everything. If we view marriage as the symbol a worldly symbol of Christ to His church, like that is a powerful symbols of when a man and a woman are created to do and be like, and how they’re supposed to reset Christ in the world. And so anything that Satan can do to destroy that he’s going to, and so um, so I think that point has a direct, of course, in my mind, because of how the world views women and treats women, it’s like, okay, clearly, if he’s having to go over there, then you’re not good enough. And so you’re not good enough, because you don’t fit this mold that every guy supposedly likes. Right? And sorry. And so anyway, but Craig was saying, Craig wanted to go into the porn world, because there he wasn’t afraid of being rejected. You know, there, he could do whatever he wanted to do and didn’t have, you know, there were no repercussions. He calls it like acting like a man, but without having to really be one, right? You don’t have to take any ownership of what you do in this fantasy world, right? It’s just kind of like this freedom to be who I can try on different personalities or whatever. But it’s all in this fantasy world. And so even if you have sex all the time in real life, right, right. It’s not fulfilling this desire to escape. And that’s what they’re doing in this porn world is escaping into this life without responsibility without you know, emotion or whatever. Like it’s just this feel good place. And and we haven’t, you know, most women will tell you like, sex is not just a physical experience. And I think for men because of what sex has been taught, or how sex has been taught, it’s supposed to be this feel good physical release, well then, but when you’re married, you have all sorts of emotions and intimacy issues and all that you have to work through to write. And so it’s a gift, but you still kind of got to work at making that gift enjoyable. And whereas porn is a very selfish, I’m just gonna get what I need,

25:35
right? Yeah, no, that’s so good. I love that you said, you know, porn is not about sex. It’s about fantasy escaping control. And the other thing I love that you said, it’s, it’s gives the opposite gives a man an opportunity to act like a man but not have to be one. Which is so key. So if you think about a wife that’s just found out about her husband’s addiction, can you give her some steps or some ideas of what to do next?

26:02
You know, the first thing I would say is to not only talk to God about it, yeah, but find a safe, trusted friend that you can talk about to talk with it too about it with Ray Ray. It’s because you naturally and have the right to feel betrayed, like he has stepped out of the marriage covenant. And yes, like he could say, well, at least I didn’t go you know, actually have an affair, or I didn’t actually talk to another woman or whatever. But he has had sexual relations outside of marriage, he has engaged in that act, even if it was only you know, himself and it computer screen. And so I just want to validate her first and say, Yes, you are right to feel wrong. And yes, this is hurtful. And yes, um, you need to be able to have a safe place to deal with your hurt and anger and bitterness. Yeah. And then, and then I would encourage her to have a conversation and say, hey, hey, I found this, or, Hey, what do you think about this, or, Hey, this is my suspicion. And you know, that the less I think it’s important to communicate, that you feel hurt and angry, but to communicate that in a way that’s productive, because I made so many mistakes and just lashing out. And it’s, and you know, what, if you lash out, you lash out, like, there’s got to be grace, right? Because this is a hard road to go through, and you’re gonna say the wrong things. And he’s gonna say the wrong thing. But the important is to come back to this commitment. So I would say, you know, if there’s not, there’s not abuse, and if there’s a willingness for your husband to try to overcome this addiction with Jesus help, like, stay in it. I mean, this, Craig and I went through this for over a decade. And it is a long process. But there is hope and there is healing, it is baby steps. And, and I went, and I think it’s so important for wives to remember that porn is a hole filler. And so if they can imagine their husband’s heart just filled with holes, and how he’s trying to pour this porn in these holes, and it just run straight through, right, because point is worthless, like it is, it is not anything that is actually going to have stepped in to make a heart hole. And one of the things that really helped me in understanding I had, wives have to be able to ask God to please help them remove themselves from the situation a little bit. Like there’s got to be some separation, even though I know it attacks the core of the marriage of this of the marital bed and sex and everything. But this is his issue. And if we can find out how we try to fill our holes with things that don’t hold them don’t lead to wholeheartedness it is so helpful, like I used food to maybe to make myself feel better and to and to fill this longing and this void in my heart and so I had this really awful relationship with food and it wasn’t until God brought me to this place of like, okay, so this food how’s this food thing working out for you? Because I see you you might enjoy this for a moment. Just like Craig enjoy the porn thing for a moment. But then you feel so guilty and so ashamed and so I just why I’m if your husband knows Jesus, there is going to be like some shame involved in this and even even if they don’t know Jesus, like I don’t I don’t know but it doesn’t it Porn was not we were not created to desire This kind of sex you know, sex or or right fantasy or escape. So right most of us even if we don’t know Jesus have a moral compass of right or wrong and and I love how sex trafficking and abuse has been put more and more in them in the media spotlight, because the more we can understand how devastating this is not only to marriages but to our society, right, you know, right. Um, so I’m kind of getting off the thing I just want, I just want the wife to hold on, because we leave our husbands because of porn. When you I mean, what were a lot of wives are going to be leaving their husbands be rampant. And I just, if you can ask God to cultivate a sense of compassion in your heart, and it took me a long time to get there. Like I wrote in the book. About I was the product post, I wasn’t the product design private products, and I was the older brother being like, why are you

31:02
doing all of this right? I didn’t have a lot of compassion. But but as God started revealing, to me my own issues, I was like, okay, like, this is really not that different than his standards in his separation from God, no matter what it is, we have different, you know, consequences for different types of sin in this world. But at the end of the day with God, like sin is sin, and it is separation. And so we need to choose to move into repentance. And we everybody in all marriages, or even non marriages have to have to deal with the consequences of sin in our lives.

31:37
No, that’s great. I think your point there is really to have a wife to see the long the long vision and that this is a temporary suffering, absolutely suffering. And I love that, you know, your website is an opportunity for wives to share their stories, and to have support in that. But this is also very temporary. Thank you so much, Jen for being so open and vulnerable with your heart and your experience and your lived out wisdom. And I just want to encourage you listener, just in case, there might be a friend that you have that could benefit from this episode. I just want to ask you to share it with them. Because yes, it’s a hard to talk about subject. It’s taboo. Yes. But it is infiltrating every part of our society. Our society is so saturated with lust and pornography. And I just want to wonder if there is some wife in your sphere of influence in your circle who’s dealing with this exact thing? There probably is. So I just asked you to consider sharing it. Okay. Well, God bless you. Thank you so much. And we’ll talk to you on Tuesday once again. Bye bye.

32:59
Thanks for listening. Stop by delight your marriage.com to check out all the show notes as well as many more resources and articles. Until next time, live with love, wisdom impassion