0:02

Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host belah rose

0:18

Haye, and welcome. Thank you so much for joining. This is Bella, I am glad you’re here. If you are listening to me around the same time that this is being released, it is the first week of December, I guess we’re closing in this is more like the second week of December. Which means that we’re getting towards Christmas soon. And then the New Year. I love Christmas for a lot of reasons. But probably more than Christmas, I love the new year. I think it’s because it’s this wonderful opportunity to reflect and to wrestle with this idea of life. For all of us life is moving closer towards the final moments, and then the end. And I think the New Year gives you a really good opportunity. As things kind of slow down, people get in a different zone. If you’re at work, probably clients are being a little more lacks on projects. And you’re just able to kind of get to a place where you can sit back and reflect a little bit. Certainly, you know, Christmas, Christmas can be its own level of craziness. But if you realize that the new year kind of gives you that space, I would encourage you to take it to think what is your life, amounting to right now. You know, whenever there’s a funeral, you really have the opportunity to reflect and realize what’s going on. And life kind of goes into focus when you start to see that it’s so short and so easy to be taken at any moment. I’ve actually been really convicted on this point, for various reasons. But essentially, there was a catalyst in my life recently, that impacted the way I parent significantly. And it was basically one conversation has just kind of revolutionized the way that I see my parenting and previous to that I really could have articulated an argument as to why I do the things the way that I do. And yet one catalytic moment has completely changed my perspective on how I parent and the need that I needed to change my perspective that I was having. And after that experience, I have now you know pursued conversations with mentors and other moms that I know that I’ve just spent time brainstorming and just thinking through and really reflecting and understanding what does it mean to be the parent that my children need in this season. And there’s a really great opportunity for you, whatever is going on in your life, to reflect to during this couple of weeks before the new year to see what is it that is taking priority in my life? And the second question is, should it be taking priority? Is that the appropriate level of priority? Is that item. And I truly do believe that in order to honor God, we really need to be having the priority as God first, then marriage, then kids, then everything else, you know, I would say under kids probably your earthly ministry, however that looks. So you have a couple of weeks to really consider that reflect on that. And I do believe that you’re listening to today’s podcast because you know, marriage is vital. You know, it’s so important it needs to take priority in your life. So is it is it are you at a place of peace and joy and pursuing God together? And if you’re not, if you’re not at a place of unity in your intimacy, that should be taking a place of priority where you can be focusing on that and So today’s podcast is really going to give you another push in that direction. Dr. Julie Slattery, this is her second part of the interview, I really encourage you to check out her. Her resources, she’s really a phenomenal source of wisdom and guidance.

5:21

So yeah, let’s go ahead and dive into the second part of her interview. I guess I want to kind of talk a little bit more about

5:42

the way a wife lives, that would influence the way she enjoys sexual intimacy. As we kind of mentioned, you know, women are complex, and for them to enjoy sexual intimacy, it’s a complicated thing. But then also, if the rest of their life is super stressful, you know, how can they kind of make sure that they are enjoying it?

6:11

Yeah, you know, I think first, it’s the mindset, that sexual intimacy and romance with my husband was designed to be a place of rest and not a place of work. Because when you think about it, in the context of all the other things you have to do, then it feels like work. Yeah. And when you begin to think about this is actually like a haven. For me. This is something that makes my husband connect with me in a way that nothing else does that. And there’s research that shows this, that the oxytocin and endorphins that a husband gets through sexual intimacy, makes him almost become addicted to you, like, he just sees you as more beautiful, he’s so grateful that you’re there. And, you know, there’s like this halo effect. And so, yeah, so like, when I started to understand that this could be a blessing for me that this could be a time of I could learn how to do it, where I could shut off the rest of life. And, and just be a no without having to do Yeah, that, for me, has been really huge. Because there are a few places of rest for me, there few places of fun and laughter and not having to care about what people think of me. And so, so that is key. And then also, I think along with that, again, something that is really helped me on this journey is understanding the spiritual priority of sexual intimacy in marriage. And this is a little complicated for, for people to understand, because unfortunately, I don’t think we talk about it enough. But God designed sexual intimacy and marriage to be a very tangible, powerful metaphor of the passion involved in covenant love. And if you read the Bible, like all throughout the Bible, there’s all these references that compare sexuality, to faithfulness, and God’s covenant love. And you see that in the prophets, you see it in eruptions. And so when I started, understand that, when my husband and I engage in sexual intimacy, and when we really enjoy it, we’re actually in a very tangible way, living out almost a sacrament that reminds us of being passionate and our love for God, being faithful and our love for God. Then, all of a sudden, this becomes a really spiritual pursuit. And I don’t mean spiritual, like, we’ve got to be holy and play hymns. I mean, like, it’s not I mean, if you’re upset about what’s happening in the world with sexuality, just you know, all the ways is talked about today, the best way you can fight against that is reclaiming it in your own marriage. You know, the best sex education you can give your kids is to have a wholly thriving sex life in your marriage, that’s going to be more important than all the speeches you could give. And so I think understanding where it fits in the rest of our lives and the rest of our walk with God and not compartmentalizing it, again, really, is this invitation to invest in it.

9:27

Yeah, I love that. Um, so for the wife that’s listening and saying, Well, I don’t necessarily have to listen to him as well. We’re making love but the stuff he wants me to do is just way beyond what, you know, what I should be doing as a Christian wife. And yeah, I mean, what are your thoughts on that?

9:48

Yeah, I’ve got lots of thoughts on that road. You know, I’ve learned in Linda Dillo kind of helped me walk through this, but this teaching has been super helpful for lots of ladies If you ask yourself three questions about any particular sexual act that maybe you want to try, your husband wants to try, you can get a sense whether this is a good thing or not. The first question is, has God said no to this? And there are scripture verses that call something’s sexually immoral. And that probably wouldn’t surprise you. And so prostitution orgies, you know, things like that, that you know, are wrong. The gods say no. And then the second question is, is this loving and beneficial? Is it good for us? And, you know, Paul, who wrote a lot, the New Testament kind of taught this, he said, if you’re, if you’re in a gray area about anything in life, ask the question is this loving and beneficial. And I think that’s really true in marriage, there are some sexual acts, that although they’re not wrong, per se, they’re just not loving. And we talked a few minutes ago about triggers. So if my husband has a trigger about something that reminds him of an image he saw in the past, or if there’s a trigger that remind you of a trauma, even though there’s nothing wrong with that sexual act, it might not be loving, loving is, you know, just laying down your needs for one another. And then the third question that’s really important is, is it only us is a sexual act just between me and my husband? Or even in a visual or fantasy way? Am I bringing somebody else into our sexual relationship? And so if you ask those three questions, and then you have freedom to enjoy, which means you’ve got a lot of freedom, and to have fun as a couple. And I’d say the other thing that, that you need to discern is the difference between violating your conscience and pushing your comfort. Because, because there are some things that your husband might want to try that you’ve you just feel are wrong, and it’s violating a conscience issue. But an awful lot of times, it’s just like, oh, I don’t want to try that. That is, that’s just sounds weird, or I be uncomfortable. And we know that we don’t grow in anything, unless you’re willing to push a little bit in your comfort zone. And that’s true love making to like, try try it, and you might like it, or you might grow to love each other in a new fun way. And so, you know, I think really discerning Is this a conscience issue? Or a comfort issues important?

12:26

Yeah, I love that. So, um, so to reiterate, the three questions are has God said no to this? Is this loving and beneficial? And is it only us? That’s right. So that’s really helpful. That’s a helpful kind of checklist to kind of go through, and especially the is it? You know, thinking through is a violating my conscience? Or is it actually just discomfort. And in my, just my life, it’s absolutely been discomfort, I mean, over and over and over again. And finally, you know, after pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing, you know, through all this discomfort to realize, you know, these are holy, godly acts, you know, that I want to be a person who is comfortable with it, who does enjoy this intimacy with my husband, but, you know, missionary with the lights on off was, I mean, was uncomfortable. I mean, that’s just, it was it was that level of discomfort. And so, I guess, you know, what I hope, you know, women listening to this would be encouraged to think, you know, just because you’re uncomfortable. You know, a lot of times we associate our conscience with our comfort. And we have to think through like the Bible is the one that should be informing our conscience, not just, you know, the way you were raised or the patterns or maybe the unhealthy stuff that kind of repressed traditional, you know, things we’re not giving you freedom in this area. Thank, you know, wives that you’ve kind of worked with about this. I mean, how do you see them becoming more free sexually?

14:21

Yeah, well, I think they need permission. First of all, Linda Dale and I created a Bible study called Passion pursuit. That is, it’s a 10 week study. We have video teaching that goes with it. And then just every week, it’s like, you have five days of homework of getting in the word and really learning what the Bible says about sexual passion and marriage. And, and when women go through study like that, they begin realizing all of these things that they didn’t even know are holding them back. You know, things like sex is somehow dirty, or I just don’t feel like I’m supposed to lose control, or, or even things like, I just don’t feel like I deserve a good sex life because I’ve made so many mistakes, I can never forgive my husband for what he did five years ago, I mean, all these things that hold us back again, the stop signs, but also realizing that, you know, God has given you the big go sign, you know, like, I created your body for a purpose to respond sexually. And this is why it was designed and created, it was created, to be pleasurable, is created to be passionate and vulnerable. And then also recognizing that you have to grow as a lover, and that there’s nothing in life that you just automatically do well, you you learn to walk, you learn to talk you, you study, to, to, to have a profession, you have to work at it. And a lot of women don’t realize that, that this is a call to work at being a great lover. I mean, if you had asked me 10 years ago, you know, do a sexual dance in front of your husband, just because you’d love it, I would be with no way. I hate my body, and I can’t dance. And those are all comfort issues. And really, they’re all my insecurities. And if I’m not willing to push past those and grow, then then we’re really stifled in the way we love each other. And the way I can I can give a gift to my husband. So you know, just I think the encouragement of other women makes a big difference when you realize that most women have the same hang ups you do. Learning from women who are a little bit down the road from you. And it’s like, here’s how I got over that and just said encouragement can make a huge difference.

16:43

Yeah, I so agree. And, and I love you know, thinking about something like that, like dancing before your husband, is what I have found to be a huge pleasure for me, in fact, because I enjoy the act of seduction, as I’ve gotten to a place of confidence with it. But often, you know, if we don’t kind of work through as you say, like actually do the work and be silly over and over and over again until you start to feel a little comfortable. And then finally you start to feel a little confident. And then you can tease and then you can make it really fun. But it starts out being really silly. And yeah, just being goofy and Oh,

17:24

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But what what in life do you do well, without practice? And, you know, it’s crazy that we’ve kind of given this message that, hey, save yourself for marriage, and your wedding night will be awesome. Like our first year, and a couple years of marriage sexually. We’re not awesome. It’s it’s taken a lot of time and work to learn how to become great lovers.

17:49

Yeah, I so agree. Yeah. I, I think the expectations should be a little bit closer to save yourself for marriage, and it’ll be worth it in the long run. Yeah, yeah. No, cuz?

18:04

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the metaphor that I use is that sex is like Legos. And that when you get a box of Legos, if you expect to open the box and have the finished product, then you’re going to be really disappointed. But the beauty of Legos is you learn to build, and you create, and this is like the kind of gift that God has given a couple, it’s, you expect to open it up and it’s going to be complete, you’ll be really disappointed and you might get stuck there. But if you can think about it, like we’re just opening up the skiff that we get to play with, like for the next 50 years and discover. We’re going to be bad at it first, but we’re going to get better and learn to forgive each other. And that’s when it really becomes fun. And it really builds true intimacy.

18:50

Yeah, that’s so good. Yeah, I really love that. And I wonder it kind of takes the pressure off, you know? Yeah. And I feel like there’s a lot of pressure no matter where kind of where seasons, you know, very wise mentor of mine told me that passion, his passion is seasonal, or something along those lines, passion comes in seasons. And I really like that because it’s this idea of not only women, our menstrual cycles are huge. You know, they affect so much of how much we want sex, how much we enjoy sex. When it’s going to be pleasurable, when you’re not going to have energy for it, those kinds of things, but then also your time of life. You mentioned having kids like that makes a big difference to your sex life. Yeah, but then just different things of grieving or medication or health stuff or just random things in life, you know, more difficulties and other areas. More stresses financial stuff. Yes, yeah. I guess my thought is that it takes a lot of the stress off a lot of the pressure off if that intimacy is going to be part of your marriage no matter what. And if you’re, you know, if every time you make love the the goal is to be perfect, or, you know, to make sure you have this amazing orgasm. And so does he or things happen? I mean, I guess how can you kind of take the pressure off of women to just continue making love even in the midst of all these different seasons?

20:38

Yeah, really good question. And I love how you said that there’s a context to all this. And there are seasons where you just need to give each other a lot of grace. And you need to say, hey, you know, I know that we haven’t had time to focus on this, or there’s illness involved or pregnancy or trying to get pregnant, you know, a lot of couples experienced that, like, everything’s about making a baby, and we’ve lost our passion. All these things are short term. And they don’t feel short term, when you’re in the middle of it, it feels like it’s always going to be that way. But if you can, and that’s the joy, again, of having an older mentor who can say I remember that season and hang in there, because it won’t always be this way. And don’t do damage to each other in the midst of it, just give each other grace. But the bottom line is, you know, sexual intimacy and marriage is like this great learning lab of love. And, and it’s such a tangible test of how you love each other. At first, you start out with all these expectations, and you’re disappointed if it’s not the way you think it should be, or if you didn’t perform the way you think you should. But over time you learn that your sexual relationship will test your ability to be unselfish, to be a good listener, to have empathy, to extend mercy to forgive, to communicate the deepest thoughts and feelings you have. And every season brings out a different test for you. And so when you get to look back, like after being married a couple decades, you’re like, wow, we’ve been through this one area of marriage, we’ve been through so many trials, but each each one has has deepened our affection, intimacy, we might not want to go through some of those seasons again. But But there weren’t wasted. And I think that’s what you need to hear is whatever season you’re in, whether it’s a season of healing, or a season of addressing some hidden things that you’ve been ignoring, or season of just, this is awful right now we need help, that, that God can use that to forge a really deep intimacy that you won’t regret when it’s all over.

22:59

Yeah. I love that. Yeah. In the midst of some of the harder seasons, is there particular advice you could give to wives that really have no desire? no interest at all, in making love in the midst?

23:21

Yeah, you know, I think first of all, can you identify what’s getting in the way, because for some wives, it’s going to be I just, honestly, really, right now have no love for my husband, and I’m so mad at him. He’s not meeting my emotional needs. That’s very different than I love my husband, he’s sensitive, but I’m just exhausted, or my mother just died, and I’m in the midst of grief. Or I have memories from the past, I can’t get over and sex just feels dirty. So each one of those has a different barrier that you have to address and overcome. And then realizing that pursuing sexual intimacy, and marriage sometimes isn’t having sex at all. It’s addressing the barrier. So it’s addressing the pornography, it’s addressing the unforgiveness, you know, it’s walking through the grief. And you’re doing that for the purpose. So that a year from now, you really can be free together in the bedroom. And I think sometimes it’s even counterproductive to have the idea of, we always have to have sex whenever my husband wants it. I always have to give it to him. Maybe right now what you really need is a season of healing. That means abstaining for the purpose of growing and your understanding and your love for each other. So that’s kind of where you know some women again, we’ll hang on to that I always have to be ready. No, you don’t. I think we always have to be intentional about pursuing true intimacy and that’s different.

24:57

So I’ve had some women write in To me or their husbands right into me with that concern that a wife has posed that as the solution at some point that abstinence is best for their marriage, at least for now. How would you kind of, I guess, qualify that to help a wife determine if that’s something she needs to pursue? And for how long? And how can she get through that?

25:26

Yeah, really good question. Because I certainly don’t want to give you the impression that it’s okay to just say, hey, for the next year, I’m going to be in season of abstinence. You know, when I, first of all, we do have some teaching First Corinthians seven that that shows us like when it’s a time to abstain, and it says, you know, really, the only reason is if you are praying together and really trying to defeat a spiritual stronghold. So for an example, let’s say a husband has a sexual addiction. And they’re working through this. And again, I’m going to encourage you to work with a counselor who understands sexual addiction. But the counselor might say, what you really need to do is retrain your sexual desire together. And to do that, we want you to abstain from sexual intercourse, but just to learn to touch each other in non sexual ways. So that you learn to develop an intimacy that isn’t just sexual. And that would be the advice that a lot of sex therapists would use in terms of retraining the brain and teaching tenderness and, but you’re doing that prayerfully purposefully for a period of time. So those would be some of some of the reasons or another example is, let’s say your husband is using porn, you confirm them, he says, I, it’s my prerogative, I can look at whatever I want. And in essence, he’s violating his promise to keep himself for you. In that case, again, prayerfully. With counsel, you might say, for the purpose of addressing this problem that you’re not willing to face. I’m I’m going to abstain, you know, it’s like, this is such a big deal, I have to create a crisis, until you get help until you get counseling, because otherwise I’m just enabling this behavior. So and sometimes we abstain out of sensitivity. It doesn’t mean there’s no sexual activity, like, for example, you’re nine months pregnant, you might get creative and give your husband a sexual release on the outside, because it’s uncomfortable, or it’s not medically advisable to have intercourse. And so you’re being creative and how you fulfill each other’s needs, knowing that right now the fullness of what what we could experience is impossible. So they’re just some examples of how of how to walk through something like that.

27:46

Yeah, that’s, that’s really helpful, I think, really helpful just to give a little bit of understanding around that. For wife that I know we’ve just got a couple minutes left, and I feel like I have a million more questions for you. But I did want to circle back to one thing that you said and to get more of your thoughts about it. But for a wife that doesn’t feel like she’s able to lose control in intimacy, whether or not she’s able to orgasm or even past that, like, maybe she can orgasm. But there’s, there’s just more and she knows she’s not able to tap into that. Can you give advice to her? Yeah,

28:28

you know, first of all, I guess I would ask the question, what is the underlying fear that is holding you back? Because a woman might just say, I don’t feel like I can lose control. And she’s really not sure why. But digging deeper into either looking at a fear or a lie, there’s always one of those two, if not both. So the fear might be if I’m out of control, I’ll be humiliated. And then okay, well, where did you learn that. And then she might remember a story where something like that happened. Or if I’m out of control, I’m vulnerable. And again, she might remember, a date rape, or she might remember something that happened in her childhood. And when that happened, she made a promise to herself, I’ll never put myself in this situation again. And so looking for those fears, looking for those lies again, like a really godly woman wouldn’t lose control when scream out with pleasure, like that’s just undignified. Well, okay, where did you learn that? Because that’s a lie. So again, some of that work. Again, passion pursuit can be a great study to go through with a couple friends that help uncover these things. But, but there’s always something underneath. Women are just born without the ability to lose control. There’s something that has gotten in a way that keeps them there.

29:49

Yeah. That’s great. And passion pursuit. I’ll have the link but just to understand it a little bit more. Is that an online thing that she can take online? Or how does she go through that?

30:02

Yeah, good question. It’s a physical workbook, you can get an ebook of it. But it’s more fun to get the physical one because it’s cute. And you write your answers lots of questions and stuff. But then the video portion of it, you can either buy a DVD pack, or if you have right now media, the videos are on there. Or you can download the videos from our website, which is authentic intimacy.com. And there’s also a downloadable Leaders Guide. You know, if you want to go through it as a group, it really walks you through, you know, how do we keep these discussions edifying, you know, how to what are good questions to ask, or what do I do if something really painful comes up that sort of thing. But, but it’s a very user friendly resource, and you’re particularly going through it with other women that can encourage you through that journey is really helpful.

30:54

I love that. And I love that you said earlier about how important it is to be around women that are going to help encourage you and you know, kind of push you towards greater freedom and intimacy. But then you also mentioned having mentors in your life that are kind of giving you the long view of you know, this this season, this is legitimate, we understand, you know, I understand I’ve been there, those kinds of things is so wonderful. Well, like I said, I’ve got so much more I could ask you about but how can you kind of just to wrap up a last question for you is if you could go to year one of your marriage, and sit yourself down? What advice would you give to you?

31:39

Oh, wow, that’s a great question. I’ve never been asked that before. Um, I think I would tell myself, that this is a long and beautiful journey. And if you, if you yield it to him, God will redeem every piece of the journey. Don’t despair, you know, keep seeking Him. Keep asking Him to show you how to love in this season. But, but I think the worst times for me when I didn’t have hope. And when I didn’t have hope, I started saying, Well, maybe I’m married the wrong person, and or we’re just too different. Or this is never going to get better. And if I could have had that hope, and that promise that every single piece of it was going to be redeemed, then it would have so encouraged me when we hit those hard things.

32:36

Yeah, that’s so true. And look, I mean, look what God has done in your life and in your ministry, and, as you talked about, and one of the most painful struggles was specifically in intimacy. So look at that, and just anyone that’s listening, I mean, that very well could be your journey, the very struggle that you’re going through right now, what God’s gonna redeem that, and what its gonna look like in the long term. So, yeah, praise God. Well, I know, Julie, you have a lot of resources and books that you’ve written. And I really appreciate where would you suggest people find you online?

33:13

Well, you can find everything we do at our website, authentic intimacy.com. And if you’re listening this podcast, it means you’re a podcast person. So we, you could check out our podcast Java with Julie, which we record in a coffee shop, which is super fun. So yeah, we have to have you on. Next, we got to turn the tables. So I get to ask you all these great questions.

33:37

That is so cool. Well, yeah, absolutely. Wonderful. We’ll definitely check out Julia can tell she’s got a ton of wisdom and insight and understanding. And I so appreciate you spending your time with us today.

33:50

Thanks so much, spinner joy.

33:56

All right. Thank you so much for listening, I am excited for you to go into your week with encouragement to Yeah, have wonderful intimacy with your man, this is going to be great. So make sure you make time for it and get yourself prepared mentally and physically and all these things and really go for it. This podcast is not just for you to listen to. It’s really for you to be empowered and inspired to go for it to go do the scary and the silly, so that you can get to a place of confidence and joy and comfort in physical intimacy with your spouse. So do that. And then also, join me next week, Tuesday, and we’re going to be talking about what does it look like to assess your life and consider what does it mean to be successful? I drawn a lot of really great authors and writers and kind of process it through what I’m learning, and then what does it mean about your marriage? What does it mean about your sex life? And how does all that kind of work together? So we’re going to be talking about that. Really learning to keep your full life in perspective, in God’s view. And intimacy is a huge part of that. So let’s dive in next Tuesday. See you back here. All right, God bless. Love you.

35:33

Bye. Thanks for listening. Stop by delight your marriage.com to check out all the show notes, as well as many more resources and articles. Until next time, live with love, wisdom impassion