0:02

Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah rose.

0:18

Hello, hello. You know, if you’re anything like me, it happens frequently that you have to redirect your mind. You have to refocus it and say, You know what, no, don’t go into that spot of ridiculousness, let’s center back in on what’s really appropriate. So what I really should be thinking about, I read a book recently that said, when we tell our mind something, it runs around to try to support that, you know, statement or that opinion. So if you tell yourself, my husband is no good, your mind will run around and try to say this, and that and this and that, to try to convince you that he is no good. And honestly, it doesn’t matter if you’re looking at the most perfect thing on earth. If you want to criticize it, if you want to bring it down, you can, I mean, look at some of the most amazing people, you can find hundreds of people that disagree with you, it just doesn’t really matter. Because that’s how our mind is it’s so easy to tear down. But it’s difficult. It takes concerted effort and focused attention to build up. So I just want to encourage you, that’s kind of what we’re getting at today is that if you focus on the good of your spouse, on the peculiarities of who he or she is, you are going to find a lot of rich, really wonderful blessings that you might not have taken the time to notice. Because all you’ve been focused on is this negative stuff. So tell your mind, my husband is amazing. And God is going to help you defend that position, and give you all these reasons. Recently, I wrote a very long letter in my journal to my husband about all the wonderful things he is to me. And that really helped my mood. So I just encourage you, if you are in this place, and we all get there, have thinking negative thoughts about your spouse, redirect, refocus, and focus on the good. So let’s dive into Heather. This is the second half of her interview I love the first half is all about being content in the midst of your dreams and your desires being delayed. But this is the second half talking more about how to understand your spouse and their personality and what makes them tick and why that’s good and important. All right, we’ll talk on the other side.

3:00

Well, okay, so I want to kind of shift into how things are with your marriage now from kind of the struggles that you’ve been through. And we were talking about, you know, the struggle of infertility that you’ve had and how that was even became an idol. And if you haven’t listened to the last episode, last week, where Heather talks about her story and her journey, it’s powerful. And so I definitely encourage you to listen to that maybe before you finish this episode. So But Heather, could you go ahead and talk about what things are like now for you all.

3:32

Um, it’s still a growing process, we are still very different. Yeah, I will say, the other day he came home. He loves to play games. He loves strategy games, and I’m definitely an Uno and faced him kind of girl. He has been blessed with this group from church, I guess together and they play some some strategy games. And when he comes home, he’s so filled. And I think this morning, because you know, as a husband, a wife cannot be everything for each other. And yeah, it’s a temptation. I think when you’re first married, think I should be, you should be getting everything you need for me. You’re not that wonderful, Heather, you’re not give him everything he needs. So you know, when I realized that I was happy for him to go to these, these groups. He had a CS Lewis group for a while that he met with and see what he came home and he’s in a really good mood. And, you know, he came up to me said, you know, I know we’re so different. And I know that sometimes that causes us, you know, to have conflicts and whatnot, he said that you really are home to me. And you know, that that really warms my heart. And I agree. I mean, ever since we were the day that we officially became a couple. There was no going back I just knew the sky is is soon gonna be with forever and it wasn’t that sense of I am completely who I am with you. And yeah, and even, even if that causes us to butt heads, at least, at least I have that comfort level. And I’m thankful that I’m here. There was a time where he would be afraid to tell me someone was pregnant because he’s afraid that I’d have a negative reaction. There was a time where we really couldn’t even talk about it for a long period of time without, without blame really without, well, maybe if he did this, or maybe if he focused on this more, and it was really me he wasn’t he’s never want said, you know, you’re the reason we don’t have children or anything like that. And I don’t think I ever say that blatantly. But I implied you know, he would make changes, or you would do this, or you would focus on this, or you would spend time researching this, and maybe he would have children and that was so unfair, no hurled at him. And I have to say, through God’s grace and maturity, and I think spending time with friends who have children and seeing the daily the ins and outs, The Good, the Bad, the Ugly, having them contact me, because they’re at their wit’s end with their children and realizing, wow, you know, like you said, no matter what season of life you’re in, there’s something you know, yeah. But all of those things, I think, we have come to appreciate, and that’s the word that really, I think envelops us is appreciate each other for who, who we are appreciate what we bring, and instead of just throwing the blame around, which helps nothing, being very thankful for what that person brings to the end of that, I would say, I think, you know, stages of grief, when you get to that acceptance. You realize, okay, you know, what, if God never fulfills this part of my life, he’s still God, I’m so blessed to look at all that he’s given me look at the ministry, He’s given us look, you know, the fact that my husband and I can both be passionate about the same thing. Those are all blessings. And, you know, pouring your focus on that, I think has, has changed the way I felt about him, because I spent a lot of time in my marriage, thinking what he’s done wrong, how he is not good enough at this, how he’s not good enough that even if I didn’t verbalize it to him, it was coming across in how I was treating him. And there, it just seems like when when I stop talking to myself and start talking to the Lord, I’ll go to him. And I will be angry. I mean, sometimes I’ll just sit in the car, and I’m like, God, and I will just throw out all of these things about this man, he gave me this, and inevitably, by the end, I am so humbled, if not in tears, thinking about, yes, he’s imperfect, but so am I and look at the grace God has poured on me. And when you look at the grace you have received, you can’t stay angry with anybody for too long, because the grace you’ve received is always far more than the grace you need to give. And when I look at him through those eyes, and all the things that God has, has forgiven me for and what he’s extended to me, it’s almost impossible to stay angry. And I think lots of those moments over the years have culminated to, to where we are now with the realizing,

8:11

you know, being realizing that, regardless of our differences, regardless of the things that that we do wrong, that we how we don’t measure up, that we truly are blessed, to have each other, and with all the other wonderful things in our lives, and, and really just accepting that God is in control. And instead of focusing on each other’s flaws, really seeking to understand each other, um, has been huge. And I have said, because Eric is so I’m not sure how familiar you are with Myers Briggs, but Eric is

8:47

yes, he’s an even love a,

8:49

he is a Field Marshal, he doesn’t he’ll walk into a room say, Okay, you do this, you do. This doesn’t even occur to him, that people might be like, what? He’s that, and that’s just naturally him. And I am an ISFP, the absolute opposite. So, you know, that has that’s been interesting. But I have said the two things that have been our grace in our marriage is a relationship with a hit. With him specifically, it’s his relationship with the Lord. And the fact that he does love relationships, and it seeks to understand people, and I think didn’t have those two things. We probably never would have gotten married in the first place, but certainly would not be thriving as a married couple now. But we have really spent time trying to understand each other. I even have a chart right here in front of me that’s got like things specifically that he needs things specifically that I need based on our personalities just to jog my memory.

9:45

Hmm, that’s awesome. Well, I want to just mention that Myers Briggs, I love that personality test. I love all personality tests really. They just give you so much great insight into yourself into others. So I’ve talked about this before on the podcast, but there’s this great site called 16, personalities calm. I’ll have it in the show notes if, if you’re interested, but it’s free. And it’s very easy to fill out this short quiz. Well, it might be kind of long, but it’s not too long questionnaire, and then it’s fine, right? And then you’re given your results. And it gives you a very extensive explanation of your characteristics. It gives you your strengths and weaknesses, your how it matters into your romantic relationships, your friendships, your parenthood, career paths, workplace habits. It’s awesome. So I’m looking at your husband. So you said he and TJ right? Yes. So that’s the commander. Oh, it even talks about some people that like our E and TJ is famous and TJ. So apparently, Steve Jobs was an INTJ. So very cool. Yeah. Right. So anyway, so I definitely encourage and you said you were an AI es FP? Yes. Okay.

11:00

So this was a J, I was determined I was a j. And Eric said, No, you’re not. And I finally, finally surrender. I am definitely and I said.

11:11

So it says you’re the adventurer. Do you think that’s true? Is that a good title?

11:16

I have been a dormant adventurer i But back to the fear. I have spent so much of my life being like, is that site and I get to look foolish, it was almost more about looking stupid than it was about actually getting hurt or something like that. And I think the longer I’ve been with Eric, because Eric is just, he doesn’t believe in fear. He doesn’t see the point. The longer I’m with him, the more like Why couldn’t I do that? And, and I think I’ve always wanted to be adventurous, but I always felt like I was held back. And last year for our for our blog, Eric, he’s like, let this this is gonna be the year of experiences. And I want you to have two experiences a month and write about them. I’m like, Okay, well, I wanted to do things like, you know, I don’t know. Some, it’s hard to have something very basic. That didn’t stretch me at all. But it was something I hadn’t done before. And he’s like, No, this has to be something that’s like worthy of an experience. So I mean, I was able to, I mean, go tubing, which to some people’s like, what’s not a big deal? Actually, it was because it was new and new. Generally frequent at first, we played an elephant, I held a snake because I’m terrified of snakes, just things like that. And I think as the year went on, I realized, no, I really do love this, I really do want these adventures, I’ve just, I have to let go of the fear in order to be able to embrace who I am, because I think I think it was the fear that made me want to be a j because j is get to be organized and Jays to get to be very traditional. And you know, and I could be more like what I was used to, because both of my parents are, are in that camp. So when I finally said know, who I really am is this person. And it it occurred to me that when you want to know who you are, you have to ask yourself, Who would I be? If I was not afraid? If fear was not an object? Who would I be? And I think some extroverts out there are living in an introverted world because of that fear of putting themselves out there, when really that’s where their heart is. And that’s, that’s another lie. And in all other areas as well.

13:23

That’s interesting, because for a long time, I thought I was an eye. I’m, let’s see, I think I’m called ENFJ. So, um, so anyway, the I thought it was an eye for a long time, because I just, I kind of wanted to be an eye I wanted to, like, be very thoughtful and like, very introspective, and, and I am those things, but I definitely need to be around people. Yes. And I just for a long time, I thought, Oh, those people are so needy, they need, you know, interaction. And you know, I’m more independent. I don’t need that stuff. But I’m much happier when I get to be social consistently. And it’s true that you say about the fear thing because just childhood upbringing, I definitely had this Yeah, fear of people. My mom just had a lot of different anxieties. I think she’s an eye but she tries to be an E sometimes. So it’s, you know, it’s so I think she hasn’t like dug into herself as being an eye so I just so you know, if you’re listening is introvert. He is extrovert sorry to explain that.

14:24

But yeah, but other people don’t necessarily or like

14:29

I know, right. I don’t know why they haven’t taken this test and others read the books.

14:36

Eric and I used to sit in the dining hall at school and type people as they walked by. I think that person isn’t he now I’m not so sure. He has a book she must. Anyway, but the things that bonded us at first. Yeah, right.

14:52

It’s very good. Okay. So I think the lesson in this section of our conversation is know yourself, figure yourself out. You know, kind of have that curiosity about yourself. Because I think, as you talked about your, you know, you and your husband, knowing each other has been a very helpful thing, you’ve got a list even of the things that he kind of really desires in marriage. And that helps you to, you know, understand that, is that, right?

15:17

That’s true, knowing me has helped, has helped me understand what I need, and what and so that I can tell him what I need, but understanding him has helped me have more compassion towards them, because there are times I’m like, I just, I, it’s like, I can’t even believe what’s coming out of his mouth. But when I look at his personality, and his upbringing, and his experiences, and put those all together, I’m like, Yes, of course, that way. And, and that’s just been a tremendous blessing to know that. And also, a test that we offer, and that we absolutely love is called the pair test. And it’s, you know, mainly for couples, but we also do it for you know, really even employee, employee or, or child and parent. But it it pairs to people on the 20 different scales and shows how how they specifically interact on the scales. And Eric, and I took that test in college, and then again, after we got married, and that has also been a huge help. Because sometimes I just pull up our chart, and I’m like, That’s it. He is strong in this area. And I am, I see him from where I am. And that makes him look so much in essence, maybe worse than me. Or at least, you know, I’m seeing it through negative eyes. But according to this, it really is a positive thing. And it really shifts my focus. And sometimes just that objective measure, having that piece of paper that that shows you your differences in a positive light can be very helpful.

16:42

Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. And it looks like I’m just pulling it up on your website. So I’ll have this linked up on the on the show notes page. So people can get access to the the pair test. And it looks like is Do you walk people through the test? Is that how it’s administered?

16:56

Yes, the people, we send out instructions, they take the test. And then when they complete it, Eric actually charts it, he has a specific way that he charts it. And then we actually take two sessions, when they when they do the test. It comes with sessions. You know, we’ve we’ve had the test. Someone go over the test with us in a matter of like 10 minutes, it was not nearly as helpful. Oh, yeah, like, wow, okay. But we like to really take it slow and say, Okay, this is your dynamic, how has that played out in your relationship and really get some really great conversation started. And we just absolutely love it. I can do the pair test all day long. With people, it’s, it’s probably my favorite part of what we do. And that’s I love at the end when they’re like, yes, okay, we, you know, sometimes they’re like we didn’t, it’s not that we didn’t know this about ourselves, but now we can really look at it objectively. And, and go back to this as a reminder, and some people are like, I’m just so thankful to know why now why this has constantly been a struggle. And now it makes perfect sense. And we can have a foundation to work through it. So it’s just I can’t say enough. It’s so wonderful.

18:05

Wow. That’s awesome. Well, that’s really cool. I mean, so So tell us we did we kind of skipped through the beginning, when we were talking about your website and your ministry, can you just kind of tell us what pre engaged does?

18:17

Um, well, mainly pre engaged are? First and foremost, we work with couples who are seriously dating but not yet engaged. That’s not solely if you’re engaged, and you would like coaching from us, we would welcome that. The reason we specifically went with pre engaged is originally you know, when we were in college, I wanted to do marriage counseling, Eric wanted to do pre marriage counseling. And when he explained why I kind of, you know, was like, you know, what, I think I’m more into preventative care myself, because if you can work things out, before you have all of this resentment built up, that comes from these problems that you don’t realize you’re gonna have until you get married. Yeah, you know, you if you get rid of those things to begin with, you can have smooth sailing, you know, obviously, there’s going to be issues, but a lot more smooth than if you go in blind. And we thought we were going into marriage with our eyes wide open, but we found out we were not in our internship. We needed hours, and they were gracious enough to actually let us work together and find our own clientele. So my boss at the time allowed me to email the student body and say, Hey, free premarital counseling, just let me know. And we had a few couples come to us and they said, you know, we’re not engaged yet. But can we still come or like, Yes, please. We need to help. Yeah, and okay, this one couple in particular came in then we just absolutely had the best time with them and they were not engaged. But they’ve been dating a while and the difference in the stress level like they came in they were truly evaluating the relationship. They were trying to work through things but they weren’t already committed. Because what some people may fail you can get out of an engagement you can but it is some Much harder than just general fun. There’s just no comparison. And I remember a lady I worked with saying that when she got engaged, she was so focused on the process that she like lost sight of the relationship. And as they were walking down the aisle, her dad said, Are you sure you want to do this? For her? No, no, I don’t. And so she cries all the way down the aisle and gets there. And she’s like, I’ve got to do it. I’m here. And at that, I know, I’ve had dream after dream of like running, or like marrying someone I didn’t want to marry and having a feeling it would be much better in real life. Her story just really impacted me. And this was well before internship. So we just have found couples who come to us in that phase or not, they’re more open their minds and hearts are more open to the truth and to really evaluating Is this a good fit? Are we a good fit? Is this is this the road we should take? And we have had some couples, not many, but we have had some couples decide afterwards, you know, this, this really is not a good idea for us to continue. But most of them do get married. And we actually had an email last night almost made me cry where this one couple said that someone had complimented them, you know, repeated people had complimented them on their marriage and how settled they were and how they, you know, they got so many things out of the way, they actually did our pre engagement and premarital programs before they go through. And it’s such, It’s so fulfilling to hear them say, you know, we got so much junk worked out beforehand that we could get married, and they’re serving the Lord and working on church plants. And it’s just so amazing to think that we were privileged to have anything to do with helping them prepare for an amazing marriage.

21:44

Oh, that’s so cool. So I definitely encourage any listener who’s got friends that are, you know, thinking about marriage, or you know, in sometimes we have some single listeners as well. But so this might be for you as well. But just thinking about who you can recommend this to because I’ve always thought even before getting married, that I wanted to do pre engagement counseling, it just makes more sense. Because why go to this giant commitment, before having really figured things out between the two of you, which is awesome. And I think that’s something Heather that really resonates through our whole conversation is basically, yeah, getting at the root of what’s going on getting the knowledge, understanding each other’s personalities, figuring things out their backgrounds, their experiences, like you said, I think that’s brilliant. Now, I want to fast forward a little bit and ask you, if you could identify the three things that have been chief to your marital success, what would you say they are?

22:38

I’m the first one I kind of went back and forth with this one, because it’s kind of outside of me. But it really was a huge, huge factor. My mom and my grandmother and probably my, my mentor, Miss Betty, wonderful lady. They have faithfully prayed, I know from probably from the time I was teeny tiny until now, but just they have covered our relationship with prayer. I know they have. And, you know, it’s not everyone has that. And I so I hesitate to say it because I you know, I don’t want people to be like, I don’t have that. You can cover your own relationship with prayer. And but if there are people in your life that you trust, that are godly, you can humble yourself and say, Would you just really lift us up and ask the Lord to, to help just to help us navigate those difficult places, and to really, if we don’t already know what it is, show us what our ministry is as a married couple, because I, I firmly believe that marriage is not just about us that there’s something we can do better for the Lord as a couple than just by ourselves. And even even if we are doing it, you know, a specific thing alone. Having that partnership, having that support behind us is also very key. So I would say first and foremost, having having those prayers has been huge. And having someone I can contact to just say, this specific instance, can you please pray? You know, sometimes I’d rather say can I talk to you about the horrible thing to my husband say? Can you pray for us, as instance? And that’s been huge. Yeah, I’d say to just there’s a determination like we, we know that come what may we’re, we’re in this, you know, we’re in this for good. And it’s important, I think, to focus on the shared passion that we have, instead of focusing so much on how we’re different and that’s very tempting to say, this is how we’re the same this is what we are called to do and pouring, pouring our focus on that. And so I’d say our shared passion for relationships, even though his has been steadfast and mind has waned based on the the grief that maybe I’ve felt in certain seasons. I’d say overall, that that passion has been the same and and that’s been a huge huge factor for us. And like I said, for really studying each other has been huge knowing Yeah, so knowing what makes the other one tick, knowing what builds the other one up. And by the time you study love languages and personality, and, and really study someone’s past, and you know, the experiences they’ve had that brought them to where they are a lot of clarity and gives you more of a path, you know, because I don’t know if this has happened to you. But it seems like every time I’m around someone that I don’t like, and I can’t get, I don’t have a reason, the Holy Spirit inevitably either makes that person, my prayer partner, you know, puts me in some situations where I have to learn this person. And I’m every single time I’m humbled when I realize, maybe you didn’t like them, because they come across this way. Maybe they come across this way because of this hurt they’ve been through or maybe they don’t even realize that they come across this way. They’re truly nice people. And I think in marriage, especially we can jump to conclusions, because we’re angry. And the more the more that we have learned about each other, the better. We have been as a couple. So I’d say that’s been absolutely huge.

26:09

Yeah, no, I think that’s really great. Because really, when you’re when you’re focused in when your aim is to focus on the good, you have to really figure out what the good is of your partner, if you’re just like they are not XY and Z, because that’s who I am. And that’s the best

26:27

Yes. To think that way,

26:31

exactly. Instead, when you get a chance to really dive in and figure out what makes them tick, why are they the way that they are? I love another. Another book, I think it’s called sacred pathways, I’m pretty sure I’ll have it linked up in the show notes. Anyway, it’s basically understanding yourself and how you connect to God. And there’s multiple ways that people can connect to God in different ways. And so like one is nature, one is more intellectual reading, studying that kind of thing. Another one is music. And everyone connects to God in all those ways to certain degrees, but a lot of us have stronger propensities. So I haven’t we were just talking last night about God and the way you know, I really connect to God through the word more intellectually, my husband much more so in nature, and, and being outside and being with his kids, those things really grow him spiritually, which is just an interesting difference. But it’s very easy to, you know, maybe the tendency for me to look at him and be like, well, he’s he hasn’t read X y&z book and you know these things, but but the way he internalized scripture and the way he undertook to internalize sermons, like he might bring a passage or a spiritual understanding that he gained through a sermon or through something that I haven’t thought about in months, and he all of a sudden has, like, has this, like, full understanding of it, almost like lived out, he’s changed because of it. And for me, I might read a book and then the next day, I totally forget what, what I just committed to and, you know, it’s just amazing. I think it’s just, if we really dive into who our partner is in every aspect, it helps us to be like, Yes, this is an amazing quality of who they are. And I’m so grateful I have that. Yeah, absolutely. That’s so good. Okay, well, then the next thing I wanted to ask you is, is about intimacy. Now, we talk about intimacy a lot on the podcast. And, and the reason is, is because I think it’s, it’s a tendency to not talk about it in our society. Um, you know, and it’s hard to talk about because it’s, it’s intimate, it’s our hearts, you know, so but if you’re willing, would you go ahead and share a tip or advice or something that maybe you learned or someone else went through that you’d be comfortable sharing that would help us?

28:52

Um, I would say you know, in contemplating this the the main thing that really was a struggle for us early on, I think was my unrealistic expectation of frequency. And I think I I think that came from a not talking about it much in my house. Yeah, yeah, I can remember on my way to get my pictures made my bridal pictures made my mom trying to very carefully suggest that I take certain precautions or the way the way that she worded it, you could tell it was it was killing her. And I think our conversation was all of you do know, you need to do this right. And I said, yep. And that was a that was not a conversation that we spent much time on. Yeah, she I knew what I needed to know. But it was not not more than that. And, um, and I think that was pretty much the way she grew up. I mean, it just wasn’t my mother alone, completely different stories. She will tell you anything about anything you want to know ever. So there’s very, very interesting balance there. One. Um, anyway, I think when we got married I was under this illusion from from Hollywood and all the little things that heard that there was an ideal amount that you shouldn’t be doing it or or you’re something’s wrong with you. And you know Eric being the one who thinks for himself and me being the one trying to please everyone else or follow a I want to be normal, what is normal that that caused some friction and I can remember at my if you could call it a bachelorette party it very much was was tame. But my godmother threw it. There were some older ladies there. I say older, like older than me, like maybe 20 years older than me. And she asked the question to these ladies, how many times have you done it with your husband in one day? And she said that counting your honeymoon? I’m sitting there this this this wide eyed innocent? What am I getting myself into girl listening to this? Yeah. And these women, you know, they were they were the screen, but they and but it was that phrase not counting your honeymoon that really struck me. Because I’m like, that means that you’re supposed to pretty much only do that your entire. So when we went on our honeymoon, and he wanted to, I don’t know, go play putt. But one day or you know, I was just like, wait a second, aren’t we supposed to you know, and he cannot stand the Aren’t we supposed to know you make our path we decide what works for us? Answer I wish that some sweet lady who was brave would have taken me aside and said, Honey, you and your husband need to decide what is a good frequency for you. And, you know, be prayerful about it, don’t just leave it to chance. Because sometimes, you know, when you’re when you’re dating, you don’t think you need to schedule that natural thing in the world. But that’s someone to say you need to decide what works for you. And and sometimes it’s going to be a very, like, spur of the moment thing, and sometimes you’re gonna need to pit slim, but to not let society dictate what is normal for you. I think that would have alleviated soo much conflict very early on.

32:26

I think that’s really good. And I think because it’s so easy to I mean, even listening to this podcast, it’s clear that people have very different marriages and very different ways that they connect intimately. And, and it’s good. And that’s exactly what you’re supposed to do. And that’s, you know, you’re not making love to the societal norms, you’re making love to your husband. So you need to know how he ticks and you need to know how you tick and these conversations need to happen, where you’re figuring out how often is each other desiring and what it means like, you know, sometimes I think there’s a tendency, I was thinking about this recently, you know, women that have men that are a lot of what we hear in our society where they, you know, just wanted all the time every day, you know, twice a day three times, whatever. I think women in those situations, or I guess women who are not in that situation, think like, oh, that’s so great, because he desires you and Oh, it must be feels so great to be wanted. But then the women that are in those situations are like, Well, yeah, he just wants my body. You know, like, that’s a week, no matter what situation you’re in, there’s a temptation to feel to let your insecurities kind of override whatever you have. So if you have a lot of frequency, you know, maybe you feel like it’s all about sex. It’s not about me. Or if you don’t have a lot of frequency, maybe it’s the feeling of, oh, he doesn’t desire me or whatever. But then the woman who has a lot of frequency is talking to the woman who doesn’t is saying, but he likes just being around you. Isn’t that nice?

34:07

Right, exactly. He just wants to hang out, not, you know, jump to the bedroom every five minutes. So I think that’s again, focusing on who your husband is, what your situation is, and being grateful for that because that’s your husband focusing on the good in your husband and being grateful for that I think is key. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. But I really love that you said, you know, why didn’t someone just sit me down and say you and your husband can figure this out together? Don’t Don’t take all the you know, rumors and stupid magazine ads and whatever you’ve heard, but let you guys figure it out together. That’s really good. Okay, so we’ve talked about this quite a bit, but in terms of your specific marriage, and maybe even your specific struggles, what opportunities have you had to serve and get to know God?

35:00

Probably the one that sticks out the most is I know, without Eric, we would not pre engaged would not exist. It was, you know, something that God birthed in his heart, I’m thankful that he did. But I think with me being more, to myself, not It sounds easy for me to kind of reached out, it’s given me the opportunity to really pour into couples that I wouldn’t have. If I had married someone like me, or, or had this specific man in my life, I know, I would not have that opportunity, at least not that way. Um, and, you know, like I mentioned before, when I was a teenager, I dated a good bit, and it wasn’t, wasn’t healthy dating, it was your typical teenager, this isn’t going anywhere, but hurt feelings. And then we start all over again, kind of stuff. Sure. I really took those, those mistakes hard, kind of put them against myself. And I remember talking to my mentor, Miss Betty and saying how I’d love to have gone back and be able to make some changes. And she said, Heather, in essence, be thankful for what you went through because it made you who you are. And that moment, I was like, Okay, this can be good. I don’t know how this can be good. And this has given me an opportunity to take those mistakes that I went through those lessons I learned and actually put them back out, and hopefully some good come from them. Yep. So I would say definitely being able to work with couples in this way. And I think regarding our specific issues with infertility, I cannot and would not walk up to someone who had lost a child or was suffering with a miscarriage and say, I know what you’re going through, because I don’t and I know that. But, but just being more aware, I think having been through pain having been through grief, especially ongoing, I think it helped me be a little bit more keen on some of this, this, this emotion, there’s something over here in this woman that is heavy, she might need prayer, she might need a hug, she might need something, you know, just I feel I feel like in essence, that is a blessing that because of because of that heaviness that I’ve experienced that I can kind of sense it more than maybe I would otherwise. I am thankful for that. And I have a really good friend that God sent to me at the perfect time who also struggled with infertility. She has been my go to person when I feel like okay, I’m experiencing this emotion that seems very, very horrible. And I express it to her. She’s like, Oh, honey, I’ve been there, I understand. And she said, when the Lord gave her child, she asked him specifically, Don’t let me forget what this was like. And that’s really my desire to whether God gives us children or not, to really not forget this so that I can use it, you know, to to bless someone else. And yeah, I think, you know, I have grown even though I haven’t seen that, maybe day to day as much when I look back over the 10 years, I know I have grown and become stronger because I’ve been married to such a strong man, and having now having those those moments where you just are like, I don’t know if I can take this anymore like this. These differences just drive us apart. And or maybe you know, when he’s frustrated, maybe he talks to me in a way that I don’t appreciate, or, or maybe I’m tired of having to like, explain myself again. Can I do that. But over over the course of the time, I know that God has been at work and has, I’ve had to seek him more because of the fact that we are so different. And that has made us stronger. I know, we have been sanctification tools for each other. Mm hmm. That would not have necessarily been the case. I had maybe married someone from my hometown who saw everything the way I did. And we might have a cozy little, you know, not too many problems marriage, but I doubt I would have grown nearly as much. If our marriage isn’t easy. I say that I’m thankful for it. Now there will be days where I question that again. But for now, I truly am thankful for that.

39:20

Well, I’m so grateful the way that you even started out this episode of like, when I asked you how your marriage is now and you’re like it’s a growing process. And I think I think it’s so wise and humble and realistic. Because no matter where we are, no matter what God’s taught us, we’re still growing. We’re still what we have. I guess we have the potential to grow. We should be growing I guess is what it is because I mean, even I find things I’ve said on this podcast that’s very public that people have listened to. I’m just like, I wish I

39:51

had kind of tweaked to that. I feel like I’ve learned some things since then. And

39:59

but you You really have to have grace with yourself and hope that people have grace with you to because you’re doing what you can when what you’ve learned so far, and what you think will help other people and you, you know, by God’s grace, you kind of walk confidently, but humbly, at the same time, thinking about your marriage in that same way that you’re still growing, no matter what God’s taught you so far, you’re still in the midst of the sanctification and by God’s grace, your husband is helping you in that. And here helping him in that that’s, that’s really a beautiful point. And kind of the point to marriage. I like how Tim Keller says, What if marriage is to make you wholly not happy? And thinking about that in your marriage, I think is a really good, a good perspective. We’ve talked about pair test, we’ve talked about the resources on pre engaged calm, are there other books or programs that you would specifically recommend?

40:52

The main book that comes to mind that I point, everyone to, I’m sure has been talked about multiple times on your show is on love and respect by Emerson egg Rich, I think that if if I had to prescribe one book, that would, that would be the number one, I think, really understanding what the other person needs, not just that they want it or, you know, understanding that men need respect, they don’t just think it’s owed to them. Because they’re men, or, you know, they shouldn’t just like we shouldn’t have to earn love, they shouldn’t have to earn our respect, we chose them as our husbands, we should be showing them respect interactions. And it is not easy. I mean, I thought I was gonna have the submission thing nailed like, best, most submissive wife in the world. And I have come to find out that that is not my gift. Like this really highlight on the the joy, like, you know, this, this is what you’ve been doing. And this is where it’s getting you. And but there’s so much joy and just unconditionally loving and respecting each other. And not only that, but this is how you’re glorifying the Lord, when you do. I love things that take my marriage out of the right now and focus it on eternity, because the rewards and the motivation is so much stronger when you think I’m doing this to please my father, not just to please my husband. And that that is absolutely my probably favorite marriage book.

42:25

That’s awesome. It is a it’s a fantastic book, I definitely recommend it. It’s just just gives you so much perspective. So it is such biblically based, and he kind of puts it in the here. Now how does that make sense? For our world today? I think it’s so good. Okay, so my last question for you is if you could go back to year one in marriage and sit yourself down? What’s one piece of advice that you would give to you?

42:50

Hmm, there are so many. I think the one that comes up the most though, I would tell myself go to bed. And what I mean by this is if you’re in the heat of battle at midnight, and then at one and then at two, you’re not trying to resolve things anymore. You’re just trying to win. And Eric and I would get into our worst arguments, obviously late at night, because we’re tired. And yeah, even though I would consider myself more laid back, I don’t like to lose, and especially if I think the person that I think is, I don’t know, see seeing the world completely wrong or whatnot, I’m, I’m going to want them to understand that they’re wrong. And this was obviously my 20 to 2324 year old. So. But still, we would stay up hours after hours, just, you know, just basically reiterating our same points over and over. You know, there was the verse, you know, don’t let the sun go down on your wrath. And we were just like, we’re going to work this out. But we really weren’t, we were trying. And we would eventually just go to bed mad, which was not helping anyone. But often we would wake up the next day, and we’re like, what was he fighting about? Again? Exhausted? And I think I would tell myself, basically, pause and say, Look, we’re not getting anywhere. I love you. Let’s go to bed and at 10am on the couch, we will sit down and we will discuss this and, and just sleep. Sleep takes care of like 80% of the little things and I wish I wish somebody had convinced me to do that.

44:31

Mm hmm. I love that. I think that’s so true. I feel like it’s funny because my husband and I had a conversation way too late last night and I like today I’m like I think we need to have a boundary that’s not allowed.

44:43

I’ve heard I think it was his name escapes me right off but there was an author who said he and his wife do not discuss anything important after 1030 Very good and you know, you have to adjust that time for your way of life. For some that might be nine for some that might be 12 but You just need, like you set a boundary, we’re not going to talk about anything that could possibly explode after this time.

45:07

Yeah. And it’s almost like in terms of intimacy, I mean, you got you get a lot more feelings late at night than you do any other time. So keep that space separate, sacred for, for what it should be for bonding and getting close together not arguing about incoherent things,

45:25

right. If you have something that’s bogging you down, write it down and talk about it on the weekend. Cut some time. Unless Yes, got to be handled right now. You say those things? Absolutely.

45:36

That’s so good. Yep. I love that. Okay, well, can you share where audience can find and connect with you online? Absolutely.

45:43

We’re at pre engaged.com, that’s just P R, E, N, G, ag ed.com. And if you want to just send us a note, you can just click on the Contact Us and then we’ll come straight to our email. And, you know, look around, see, see the services we provide. And, and we have a blog that we update three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. So feel free to come and and read as much content as you’d like for free.

46:11

Cool, that’s awesome. We’ll also be thinking about who you can push to this website? Because I mean, as we’ve talked about, there’s just so much you can get sorted out beforehand to make it so much easier for your married marriage life. Yeah, so I would just encourage, like thinking about who’s maybe in a serious relationship that could utilize these these services. And but also, I think you also have some, you know, things that are just kind of universal that you can use as a married wife as well. Like, just the first one are shadows of old relationships haunting you like what a great, what a great conversation to have with yourself, whether you’re married or engaged, so that’s awesome.

46:51

Yeah, they don’t all just roll off. When you say I do. Like I thought, yeah.

46:56

Oh, I know. Yep. So true. That’s awesome. Okay, well, um, Heather, I just am so grateful for this conversation. I think there’s, I feel like listeners, and probably myself, we’ll go back and listen to this episode a couple of times before you get all the little nuances and different thought through conversation that we had. So I just so appreciate your time, and putting yourself out there today.

47:18

I appreciate you having me very much.

47:24

So are you going to be focusing on the good of your spouse today and this week, I really, really hope so. Now, if this is your first time listening to dBm, I want to say thank you so much for listening and all the way to the end. We always, I always strive never to repeat myself in these interviews. So hopefully, it’s fresh, exciting inspiration, this time around once again. But God bless you, I’m praying for you and your marriage. And if you haven’t yet reviewed the podcast, I want you to think about taking a moment to do that. It would definitely bless this ministry. And if you’ve been blessed by this ministry, it will bless more people. If you go ahead and take the time to review on iTunes. You can find out how to light your marriage.com/itunes Now listen, have a wonderful week. Focus on the good God has given you so many blessings in your spouse. Don’t let those go on notice. Don’t let another moment go by without being grateful for what God has given you. I love you and I’ll talk to you on Tuesday. Take care.

48:30

Thanks for listening. If you’ve been blessed by this, why not share it? Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion