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A wife who knew something wasn’t right, but she denied that it could be happening in her marriage. For years, she didn’t acknowledge what she had found out. But what was bottled was actually eroding her sense of sense of self and eventually she felt like she was drowning. This is the story of a woman who had a healing process to go through after uncovering her husband’s addiction. Its not an easy journey and one that happens far too often. I’m grateful Lynn Cherry shares her story and I think it will bring you encouragement today.
Learn more about Lynn at lynnmariecherry.com
What You Will Discover
- Why I was given the “gift of anger”
- Because Lynn’s anger was the catalyst of her change
- When “recovery” felt like it was just scraping a gaping wound
- How her husband thought his porn addiction was just affecting him (not her)
- How there were times she wasn’t sure her marriage would survive this
- The 3 pieces of advice she gives women in her situation
Tweetables
- I felt the tangible presence of lust and then the presence of shame.
- They were the gift of life, they gave me my purpose.
- Knowing the truth is the first step to freedom
- Even when you feel you can’t trust your husband, you can trust God.
Resources
Transcript
0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host belah rose.
0:18
Hello, and welcome. I’m glad you’re joining me on the delight your marriage podcast. This is a show where we talk about marriage and sex and intimacy in all its forms. And we also talk about the struggles and challenges that can occur to married people and people in this world. And pornography is something that is, is just rampant in our society, and so many people deal with the addiction. But then how do we heal from it? And here’s a woman’s story that is raw and difficult and painful. But how she got through it and how when she felt like she was drowning. You know, God brought her through the most difficult struggle and season in her life. And she has hope on the other side. And that’s what she wants to bring us today. So let’s go ahead and dive in and listen to her story.
1:33
All right, welcome back. delight your marriage listener. I’m excited that you’re here. And I’m excited to be with Lynn Marie cherry. Welcome, Lynn.
1:42
Oh, thank you so much for having me on. Glad to be here.
1:45
Absolutely. I am too. And we’re gonna dive into your story and and hear how, you know God has brought you through so much. And Lynne has a website Lynn Marie cherry calm and we’ll give you the details of that in a little while. But first of all, Lynn, would you go ahead and introduce yourself and your family and a little bit about your day to day life?
2:10
Yeah, absolutely. So I live in Texas. I was born in North Dakota. It’s about as far away from Texas as you can get. But I think I was meant to be a southern girl. I love it here. I love the southern hospitality. I only my northern accent comes back when I talk to my parents on the phone. I do love I love being here. I went to college in Oklahoma. And that’s where I met my husband. He had gone to Bible school in Oklahoma. So we met there at a church and I have a degree in biology. Like I used to be a real smart girl before I had. They took all my brain cells. Right. But now I work for my local church. here in Austin. I’m just helping people get connected, letting them know there’s a place for them to belong. And I really enjoy doing that. My husband and I have been married for 25 years. Wow. I know. That’s a big wow. We celebrated our anniversary this summer. Had a great time in Mexico and just enjoy the triumph of that landmark and being able to celebrate it together. So just a little bit about us. Okay, I’m the firstborn. I’m like a rule follower a people pleaser. My husband was the baby of the family. He his little life of the party. Just that whole opposites attract for sure. But it’s been it’s interesting. I was thinking about it. And we have so rubbed off on each other over the years, we’re shaping each other and I definitely become more assertive, and you know, standing up for myself a little bit more than I used to for sure. And he’s definitely become more gracious. And so it’s a good thing. We have two boys. They are 19 and 16. Two teenagers who are also opposites. It’s so funny. They are my my firstborn. Very cautious, very thoughtful. Just definitely a processor. And then my second son is just he’s an actor he is all about. He’s all about drama. He’s got his high school musical coming up here in a couple of weeks. So I like to say they are caution and caution to the wind. Those are my
4:45
that’s wonderful. Wow, teenagers and two boys. So I have two boys also. And you said 16 and 19. Yes. Okay. Yeah, so they’re not too far apart in age. They were three years difference. So you had your head In school,
5:01
I did I did I and I’m glad I’m so glad not to be in that infant toddler season is like the most physically exhausting season of motherhood. So it’s a little bit more mentally spiritually taxing at this age.
5:17
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and minor in the toddler phase. So I’ve got a one, or he just turned two. And then the other ones three and a half. So bless you. Yeah, I’ll take it. Um, so, well, you know, this, this podcast is really encouraging wives and their marriage and their intimacy and their walk with God. And so I would love if you could share a scripture or a quote that’s meant a lot to you over the years.
5:47
Or even recently, yeah, one of my, my, probably my like, first, like one of the most important passages in my life has been Isaiah 43. And especially verse two. But it says, this, Thus saith, the Lord, Your Creator, oh, Jacob, and he who formed you, O Israel, do not fear for I have redeemed you, I have called you by name and you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And through the rivers, they will not overflow you. And when you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched. Nor will the flame burn you. And there was just a season in my life when I felt like I was drowning. And I remember reading this verse one day, just feeling like the Holy Spirit was talking to me and just saying, keep walking, baby, keep walking, just put one foot in front of the other and don’t quit. There is a way through.
6:53
Yeah, that’s powerful. That’s so good. Well, I want to hear, you know, that this difficult season and struggles, you know, God teaches us so much and those really dark times and, and then it gives us hope when we get through them. So yeah, would you be willing to kind of share that season with us?
7:18
Yeah, it was, it was, you know, it’s a long process of realization. I remember early early on in my marriage, having a feeling like something wasn’t quite right. I, I just remember walking by our home office, and I was pregnant with our first son. And so you know, dealing with like, body image and like, my belly has sides. Just struggling with some of that also happened to be the same year that our house was wired with this brand new thing called the internet. And I remember walking by our office at home and thinking something’s not right in there, like something just didn’t feel good. And yet, at the same time, thinking, you know, it’s probably not a big deal. And I maybe I really don’t want to know what’s wrong. And so I, I chose to deal with this thing, really, with denial for for a long time. And then when I was when we actually when we brought our second son home from the hospital. So three years down the road. We brought him home from the hospital. And it was the week we brought him home. And okay, here little birthing side story. My first son was asteria, like 20 hours of labor. And finally, just get up, get him out. Gosh, and then but my second with second son was born in 20 minutes. What I know is I remember the nurse was like, if you have another baby, you’ve got to get to the hospital sooner. Just it was, well, he was two pounds smaller. So that made a big difference. But I was just on cloud nine thinking I could do anything like I just gave birth to the child and 20 minutes like I’m the powerful woman. Yeah. Feeling living on cloud nine and just in a high and we we brought him home from the hospital and one night I was up late feeding him and I saw the light on in our office and I remember thinking like this is great because I’m not the only grown up awake in the middle of the night and walked over to the office and I opened the door and just in an instant I felt like the tangible presence of lust just steamy entice And then followed very quickly by the suffocating oppression of shame like the one two punch of the enemy. And I saw pornography on the computer screen. So there in that moment, like this thing that is not quite right, is right in front of my eyes. And yet I did what I knew to do, I chose denial. And I closed the door, and I walked away. And I just continued pretending and coping. And I did that for four years. I like to joke that I was a zombie before the Walking Dead was cool. You know, I just just existing and just shuffling through life and really feeling like, I would probably never be happy. And at this stage life is really all about trying to provide the best possible life for my children so that they could be happy, you know, I wasn’t willing to give up on their happiness. And so that was my life for a long time. And then I got a gift, an unusual gift. i It’s the gift of anger. And I know that sounds crazy, but I really am so grateful for my anger. I was okay, being sad. I was okay, feeling lonely. But when I got angry, it scared me. And I knew I needed help. But I just thought I can’t continue to live like this. I’m a basket case. I like started swearing I had never sworn in my life. And I just was there’s so much emotion that I had stuffed in and just it started spewing out wasn’t pretty. But, um, that that anger finally was the catalyst for change. And I remembered I remember telling my husband one day like, I, I need help. We need help, but I need help. And I’m going to call a counselor. You can either come with me, or or not. But I have to go.
12:21
Yeah. Yeah. What, um, while you were, you know, in this four year period, I mean, was it on your mind a lot that, that he was doing this behind your back and engaging in this sin and betraying your marriage? And what was that? Like?
12:47
You know, I don’t, I wouldn’t say it was on my mind, in the forefront of my mind. I really did a good job of stuffing that in the back. And it wasn’t a focus of my life, you know, plus, I’m incredibly busy and with with two little boys. And, gosh, I’m so thankful for them to like, they just, they were the reason I got out of bed. I remember one morning, really not wanting to get out of bed and the boys were up and I just went and got them out of their rooms. And I brought some Matchbox cars and put them on the bed with me. And just for as long as they would I’m like just just, you know, drive your cars on the bed and hang out here with mommy. And you know, and finally they’re hungry and I have to get up. Yeah, they really were, they really were a gift of life for me and helps me to, to keep keep living. Just to give me purpose. I don’t think I gave a lot of time and space to what was happening in my husband’s life. Just really chose denial. It wasn’t until we actually did go for help. And I call the therapist. And we went you know, to that first appointment, just scared, really wondering, are we going to make it through this, but at the same time knowing it, whatever happens, I can’t live the way I’m living now. So we went to that counseling appointment. Just you know, hoping that something would change.
14:32
Yeah. Yeah. Had you ever been to counseling before or was this new for you?
14:42
That was a that was new. Definitely a brand new experience. But you know, I’d had a lot of actually, part of the reason why I finally had the courage to get help is that I had a friend who shared with me A Story of a betrayal in her marriage, her husband had had an emotional attachment to another woman. And I remember sitting across the table from her at Starbucks, just crying over this shared betrayal that we had, we were living through. But she had gone to therapy. And they were using the same people that she she recommended. She’s the one who recommended that therapist that we used. And I remember like sitting, sitting and looking at her across the table and thinking she is on the other side. Never pain that I’m drowning, and she’s on the other side. And if there’s an other side for her, there has to be an other side for me. So there was never a stigma about going to therapy, which I’m so grateful for. Plus, our church at the time totally supported us and carried us and, you know, encouraged us to get counseling.
15:56
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That’s awesome. Yeah, counseling is so important. We’ve been before it’s, it’s just, it’s a wonderful resource. Okay, so what was I mean, what was the process like in counseling, if you don’t mind sharing?
16:16
Well, that’s when the work started for me. I mean, I was really good at pretending and denial, until you know, I ran out of space. So in counseling, honestly, it felt like every week, they’re scraping my wound. So the first, the first week of our 12 week group session, every couple goes around the room and you share, you know what it is that qualifies you to need a fair recovery. So we all tell our stories. And then the second week, we went back for our second session, and a new couple had joined our group. So everybody had to tell their stories again, for their benefit. Third week, a new couple joined. And so again, we have to tell this truth of our lives that I had been pretending about for so long. I remember on the way to the fourth class, just telling my husband, there’s another couple there, I quit. I’m not telling to get like I’m dead. But I really think that God knew I needed to speak that truth. I needed to, I needed to tell the story. And that was part of coming out of denial. But it was grueling. It was grueling for me as a pretender to have to really start began to address the issue.
17:46
And so so as you were, you know, processing through this, I mean, what was the process for your husband? Was he? I mean, did he was he able to totally stop? Or was it a process for him to, you know, get off the addiction? Or how did it work?
18:03
Yeah, it definitely was a process. And I think the first step was acknowledging the fact that, that it was a betrayal. No, I think, in his mind, it was just pornography. It was this issue that he had, that didn’t affect anyone but him. And so I like one of our first sessions, there was a survey and at the end of the survey, it said, circle one betrayed or betrayer. And for both of the both of us, like that was a moment for me to say, oh, yeah, I have been, I’ve been betrayed, or even for my husband to go, Well, I know I’m not the betrayed, but that makes me a betrayer. So, you know, acknowledging that pornography was a betrayal, and that it wasn’t, even though it was his issue. It affected me. And pain and the journey that I had in recovery is very similar to a woman whose husband has had an affair with another woman. So that was definitely a big part of his his owning the issue. You know, another part for him was just discovering hope. No, he was seven years old when he found pornography in the woods behind his house. And then, you know, found it in his home and so it had been a part of his life from the time he was seven. And I think he had tried you know, many times like just to white knuckle it or Jesus and me like, we’re going to kick this problem. And and that didn’t work for him. And so he really was hopeless thinking, I, you know, this is my thorn. I’m stuck with this issue. But as we began to go to therapy, and he discovered some of the tools to break free Like he grabbed ahold of them. And, you know, there was this inequity in our recovery, like maybe I made the first phone call for us to get help. And he was maybe more reluctant at the beginning. And then he began to find hope, and freedom. And he was committed to walking through that recovery. And then I was like, I want to go back to pretending year was where I was driving recovery. And then when he was driving recovery, and he, he really began to move us both forward and just be very kind and gracious to me and all of my emotional wigged out moments. And no, he really, ultimately, even though probably caused, was part of the biggest pain in my life. He was a big part of my healing.
21:01
Yeah. Wow. Um, you said that that he, you know, he got resources and different things that gave him hope, were they? What forms were those? Were those books? Or were or ministries or what kinds of things did he get ahold of?
21:23
There were a couple of different resources. Of course, there was the group that we went to therapy with him, they specialize in sexual addiction. And so they really knew how they really know how to help people break free from sexual addiction. He also met Jonathan Doherty of brain be broken.com and met with Jonathan several times, and he was a great resource to David, this was before a fight the new drug, I know that they have a great resource for defy, that’s an awesome tool a lot of people are finding help with. But we we did sign up for covenant eyes, just online accountability software. So we still use that, you know, that’s part of the safeguards that David chose to put in place. And so we’ll probably use that for the rest of our lives, it helps him knowing that if he were to give into temptation, I would find out about it, and his friend would find out about it, and people would confront him. And so covenant is definitely part of one of the great tools that that helped us.
22:35
That’s great. And I’m gonna have all these listed on our show notes, all the all the different resources you said, so people can get it easily. So, so in his recovery, you know, and yours, how was it just in terms of your relationship? Kind of before things happen? Like you said, you were a zombie. But what were you like to him? were you, I can imagine you weren’t warm and affectionate? I mean, what was it kind of like?
23:05
Well, really, just a lot of going through the motions. You know, I mean, we still we bought each other birthday cards, and we wrote nice messages. But I was so disconnected from my heart and from my soul. And then, so there was a lot of pretending, going on and doing the thing that sounded like the right thing, even though my heart wasn’t feeling it. And then, of course, honestly, the two years of therapy were very rocky. And there were times where I didn’t think we were going to make it through together. There were times he thought we might not make it through together, but we somehow managed. I remember for a while, Fridays were fight day. And I’d go Thursday night thinking, Okay, we’re going to get up, we’re going to take this kids to school tomorrow, and we’re going to fight about something. Just it was the one day the kids weren’t in the home. And we were both off from work. And inevitably, there was something that got stirred up the day before and counseling that we were going to argue about and, and it was that way for a while. It was very, very stressful. I dealt with anxiety and chest pain and not insomnia. It was it was really, really hard. But then really coming out of that, you know, two years of counseling and doing the work and owning the issue and finding a place where the marriage that we have is not perfect, but it’s real. And we are honest with each other. And really we have tools now, relational tools, after therapy that we did not have, you know going into that so it really even though it was difficult, the hardest thing I’ve done in my life, it enriched our relationship and gave us a lot of knowledge and a lot of skills that we didn’t have.
25:16
So if if you just kind of thinking about talking to a wife that maybe she knows that her husband’s in pornography, what would you kind of give? In terms of advice to her?
25:31
You know, one of the first things I want to say is that it’s not your fault. I think a lot of us as women, it just is so crushing to know that your husband has this other thing was life and something else that’s satisfying in him in this intimate way, and it’s not you. And I think some men will place the blame on their wives shoulders, and then some women, we we take the blame. So I just want to say, at the at the start, that it’s not your fault, that it’s not about you, yes, it does affect you. But it’s not about you. And then I think my challenge would be to own the reality, but own it in a way that it does not become the epitaph on your life or your marriage. You know, one day I was reading my Bible and reading the love chapter. First Corinthians 13, and no Love rejoices in the truth. And it just made me so mad. I’m like, How could love rejoice in the truth of my life. And I was frustrated with that scripture. But in that same moment, the Holy Spirit reminded me that knowing the truth is the first step of freedom. And when we know the truth, the truth will set us free. So even when the truth is ugly, it’s an important step to freedom. So own the reality, then the second thought would be find support. Like you, this is not a journey, you want to walk through alone, I had three friends. Honestly, like sometimes you want to go and dump your dirty laundry on the Boulevard for everyone to see. And like, Hey, this is what’s happening. You’re posted on Facebook, I guess that’s the boulevard of our day. But I think it’s more helpful if you’ll just find two or three people who will faithfully walk through the journey with you. So I had three friends that really helped me unpack the baggage of my life. Just listen to me, I had a friend that watched our children when we went to counseling, and I would go pick up the boys and the kids would all go outside and play. And I would just rehash what happened and process with her and it was so helpful. One of our pastors wives was part of my support team. And I remember just calling her and I would call her and I would think she’s looking at her caller ID and saying, oh, no, it’s Lynn again. But she kept answering. And I remember her telling me like, like, God has you, and God has David. And you can trust. Even when you feel like you can’t trust David, you can trust God and keep your trust in God. So having that core group of support will really help a lot. And, you know, another piece of advice would be don’t wait until you’re done. You know, women, we can cope and Cove and we put up with stuff. And then we’re exhausted and tired. We’re like I am done with this issue. I am done with this marriage. And then you want to confront confront the problem. But that’s when, like, that’s when the real work starts. So don’t wait until you’re absolutely done before you try to get help before you reach out and look for help save some energy for recovery.
29:27
Yeah, yeah. What about the wife that’s thinking, well, it’s not all that bad. Like, what about those? Where she’s like, well, you know, he can he can do that. Because, you know, all men kind of need that or whatever. Have you heard of women kind of thinking that way?
29:50
Oh, for sure. Yeah, I think you know, our culture definitely normalizes pornography. But The more I learn about pornography the more I see how damaging and how destructive it really is. There are very few people who will begin using pornography and continue using the same type of pornography, the way that it interacts with our brain, all the chemicals that are released. There’s it’s similar to drug use where you need you need novelty, you need a stronger drug, you need a bigger high. And so people begin looking at one type of porn and two years down the road or five years down the road find themselves looking at material that would have disgusted them when they started. And that’s just the nature of of pornography use it escalates. And people find themselves looking at things that they would have never imagined looking at. And but all pornography is dehumanizing. All pornography is is destructive toward women. It does not empower women. It and so I think I would challenge the thought that it’s okay for him to look at porn. Yeah, I don’t think it’s okay at all. I think it’s going to end up really damaging your marriage, and altering the way he views sex. And the way he views you as his wife.
31:37
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I really appreciate that. I just, um, you know, it’s a, it’s a heartbreaking. I mean, I think the, the theme of this conversation is really recovery from it. And I think, you know, I think the kind of knee jerk reaction I have to it is, you know, just extreme, you know, negative feelings towards it, you know, but then I’ve heard other women that have just felt so differently, and I just feel like we needed to give some air to why it’s not okay. And what, what God thinks about it, I just can’t, I can’t believe that. I mean, I love how you kind of said in the beginning that, you know, just this tangible presence of shame, you know, directly after this, this presence of lust, and it is, it’s, it’s so shameful for the man. I mean, in, in in, I think it’s proverbs five, it talks about adultery as it destroying your soul. And, you know, Jesus talks about lusting after another woman is committing adultery with her in your heart. And, you know, destroying your own husband’s soul is what he’s doing, when he’s doing that. And I also appreciate that you said it, like it is this gift of anger, you know, this righteous indignation that this is not, okay, this is not how it needs to be. And I think anger does provide a lot of energy to get stuff moving to get stuff done. Yeah. And so maybe that’s what we need to really inspire today is for a wife out there, that’s not in some ways, not that she needs to, you know, lash out at her husband, but get angry enough at what the enemy has done to her husband and to her marriage, that she starts making steps in the direction of healing.
33:45
Yes.
33:47
You know, I, I appreciate it. Also, you know, in your story that your husband was seven, when he was exposed to this, you know, as a young woman, I was exposed to it when I was in middle school, so maybe 1314. And that started in addiction that took a long time to, to come out of, and, you know, even as a young woman in church, and, you know, with all of these desires for Jesus and holiness and stuff, it was so difficult. And the shame was so debilitating. And so I know that experience and you know, by God’s grace, it’s been many years since I’ve even had that temptation. But but it is something you know, it’s a huge temptation. For men. It’s a huge just the way they’re wired to be so visual, and it’s so natural that way, which is great in the right context, it’s a great, you know, it brings your marriage together and all this but, um, but yeah, you know, I wonder if you could even speak to that part of it. You know, I can imagine And, you know, wives, who, who know about the the pornography or, or they find out makes them very hesitant to have any kind of intimacy with their husband. But at the same time, you know, maybe they’re in the denial phase, and they’re, you know, trying to work it through or trying to, you know, entice their husband away from it. I don’t know, is there advice or other things you can kind of give in that regard?
35:29
Well, I think I just want to affirm that dealing with any issue in your marriage is a risk, to address an issue, to address an issue of any kind, comes with risk. And there is definitely there’s some real fear involved in addressing a problem. And then when you think about our sexuality, like, that’s something a lot of people don’t even talk about. And there may, you know, I just think, women, especially in sometimes women in the church, we’re not comfortable with our own sexuality. And so we have this part of us that we’re hesitating about. And then now we discover that our husband is embracing sexuality outside of the marriage. And it’s almost like, where we feel powerless, like I don’t even know my own sexuality, how am I going to deal with his? I think for for those women, you might even consider some of your own baggage, some of your own issues and how you think about sex. And I think I know, I bought into the lie that sex was all about men. And that’s probably why I did was able to cope and pretend with denial for so long, because I bought into that thought that sex is for men and sex is about men. And it’s not for me, and and so I was able to sort of shut that down and permit that in my home or rationalize it, I guess. So I would challenge that that’s a lie. That is not the truth. And that’s not God’s plan. So look, looking maybe at your own baggage, challenging some of the lies you believe, and then also holding on to the hope that there is freedom from sexual addiction. And that it’s something that your marriage can survive and come out on the other side of?
37:36
Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, in the next part, it’s going to be our next episode coming out next week, you can hear the rest of Lynn story. I just want to underline sometimes anger gives us the energy and the motivation, that we need to make real changes. So I’m not sure where you are in your walk, or if this really spoke to you, but pornography really is is of the enemy. It’s just so debilitating in so many ways. And I believe God wants to free his people from this grip. So if you’re not affected by it personally, I know you can pray for others that are and that they would have the courage to come into the light and to work through this and to get healing for it. Come on back next Tuesday, we’re going to be talking about the rest of Linda’s story, how she worked through this and to continue to give hope to others that may be in the same situation and how she recovered and healed from it. God bless you. I love you. I’m praying for you and your marriage. And I’ll talk to you next Tuesday.
38:57
Thanks for joining. If you’ve been inspired by this show, would you help spread the word. If you take a moment to review and subscribe others can find us more easily. Find out how to delight your marriage.com forward slash iTunes. Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion