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Hi there! Belah here. Today I have part II of Karen’s amazing journey through and after abuse in her childhood. And how she survived the horrific events of finding out her daughter’s sexual abuse. She talks more about how she handled the struggles she had as a child and how she made it through depression anxiety attacks which affected her life and especially the intimacy in her marriage. She talks about commitment, trust, honesty, and most of all, forgiveness. And how it has helped her heal and be more open. Listen in as she shares powerful and inspiring words that would definitely help steer you toward the right direction in your married lives.
Check out Part I at delightyourmarriage.com/31
Scripture/Quote:
“In the shadow of my hurt, forgiveness feels like a decision to reward my enemy. But in the shadow of the cross, forgiveness is merely a gift from one undeserving soul to another.” (Andy Stanley)
You’ll Discover:
- What Karen and her husband’s marriage looks like after addiction and abuse threatened to end them
- How they came to a place where they both felt at ease with each other
- How Karen overcame her panic attacks and what she has accomplished now that she has kept her anxiety at bay
- In what way she and her husband serve the Lord together through music
- That intimacy is like putting gas in your car, (find out what she’s talking about!)
- How she was able to forgive the abusers from her past
- The three central ingredients that has kept her marriage alive
- How her husband has been very intentional about things that could improve their marriage
- How she is working through forgiving the man who sexually abused her precious daughter
- How sharing your struggles and pain could be the best thing to heal, though it won’t be easy
Books & Resources Mentioned:
Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead by Brené Brown and Karen White
12 Steps from the Celebrate Recovery program
The Five Love Languages: How to Express Heartfelt Commitment to Your Mate by Gary D. Chapman
Enemies of the Heart: Breaking Free from the Four Emotions That Control You by Andy Stanley
The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex: (And You Thought Bad Girls Have All the Fun) by Sheila Wray Gregoire
Tweetables:
- We’re talking like we’ve never have before.
- Everything in our society seems to be replaceable, but people are not.
- You choose to love through the good and bad.
- It’s better to suck it up, be a man, and tell her what’s going on.
- It’s only in the midst of brokenness that you learn to trust God.
- God gives you more than you can handle so you can learn to trust Him.
- If you’re not uncomfortable, you’re not growing.
- Intimacy is not like oil change. It’s not something you do every 3,000 miles to keep the engine going. It’s more like putting gas in the car.
- In the shadow of my hurt, forgiveness for my enemy seems like a gift to my enemy and it seems like they are getting off too easily. But in the shadow of the cross, forgiveness is just from one undeserving soul to another.
If you want to chat more about overcoming the trauma of sexual abuse, responding to a horrible court decision or just about anything that you feel Karen will resonate with, feel free to email her at kanonymous2015@gmail.com.
Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!
Love,
Belah
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Transcript
0:00
delight your marriage episode 32.
0:04
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast, the show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah rose.
0:20
Hello, hello, this is belah rose. Thank you again for joining me, we are coming up on part two of the awesome Aaron interview with Karen. And like I said, we have changed names and details and etc, just to make sure that we’re protecting her because she’s just been so generous to share her story. It’s awesome, I’d want you to definitely listen, and she shares about how she was able to kind of, you know, hold on to her marriage, even in the midst of such significant difficulties. So if you haven’t listened to part one of this interview, that’s Episode 31, delight your marriage.com/ 31. And that’s where Karen really talks about the abuse that she survived as a child, and then how that, you know, affected her as an adult. Further, she talks about some really significant issues that came to light when she was married, you know, some things that she really couldn’t have ever believed, and then how she fought through that. So go ahead to listen to the first half beforehand, I would suggest because then it’ll give you some insight. And really, that is the woman who has, you know, worked through so much difficulty and been able to share these really awesome insights with you. Otherwise, here is part two. So let’s dive in I want to see if we can shift over to some of the other questions that I want to make sure we get to. Because I think it’ll help women have a sense of like, okay, what can what can be possible. So the first question is, tell us what your marriage looks like. Now, if you would share that.
2:12
Oh, now we’re doing great. We’re talking like we never have before, we’re actually talking and I had a big you could call it a temper tantrum if I had been a two year old, but basically, with hubby’s work, and grad school. Yeah, he didn’t have any time to spend. And so he would come home and do his homework, and then expect me to be extremely accepting in the evenings of his advances. This semester with his class has been one of the absolute worst as far as his homework load. But it’s been one of the best in his intentionality. He will say, I have to do this for school. But I am taking Friday night off to spend with you. More, I’m going to come instead of looking at Facebook, or the Transformers or Lego websites, I’m going to spend my 10 minute break with you. And so he’s, he’s been fantastic as part as far as being intentional about spending time with us every day. And it’s not just me, it’s the girls too. They’ll do it’s actually really nerdy, but really fun. At the same time. They do Lego nights, where they’ll all get out their Legos. And he’s very careful that his Legos don’t mix in with their Legos because Heaven forbid that too much. But they’ll do leather nights, and they’ll just sit milled the three of them. They’ll pour all the Legos out on a like a beach towel in the living room. And they’ll just sit down and they’ll build. Yeah. And that’s huge. That’s what he can do with them. And it it’s something that I really don’t like doing with them. So for him to do it. It’s fantastic.
3:59
Yeah, yeah. I love that. So he just he’s become a much more present father and husband. It sounds like it has.
4:06
Yeah, yeah, he has. He’s doing fantastic. And one of the other results of, or the, the outcomes of his addictions have been that I haven’t allowed myself to be photographed in the last eight years. Because I didn’t want to become a Rolodex picture. And I would have a panic attack whenever I had to do that. Like even a driver’s license photo would send me over the edge. But a couple weekends ago, we were able to do family photos with a friend. She just came out we live across the street from a park that’s a nature area also. And so we just went and walked around in the on the trails and stuff and it was just an I did not have an anxiety attack. I had higher anxiety but I didn’t have a full blown attack.
4:55
Wow. Which was huge.
4:57
Oh absolutely. Praise God that you Because I advance I said this could happen and you need to understand, I may need to go. And I may not tell you why. So,
5:09
yeah, yeah. Yeah, Karen, I mean, be gentle with yourself, you’ve been through a lot. And I’m just grateful that you’re willing to share, because you are so many steps ahead of where you were, and so many steps ahead of where so many women are and that you can help them get to a place of even talking. I mean, that’s huge and wonderful. And I just believe that more and more your willingness to talk to grow, to understand to give God the space to help you along, I think is just incredible. I just see that so much more fruit is going to come I just am sure of it.
5:48
It took a long time, but I can actually see it now, which my counselor is also going to do like a little mini fist pump on that one. So
5:56
wow, praise God. Yeah, really? That’s awesome. Well, can you share? What do you think the chief three things have been? That you feel have been central to your marital journey and success so far?
6:09
Sure. Yeah, number one has been commitment. Everything in our society seems to be replaceable, but people are not. And after that twitterpated Illy gooey hormone feeling of infatuation and lust where often you choose this man to be your partner you choose to love. And so you choose to love in the good and the bad. And then, through everything, trust and honesty. And that sounds a little weird considering what I was told. But the point was, he told me about it. I did not discover it. He told me about it. Yeah. And that
6:48
courage. That’s huge. It’s huge. Yeah, so any man that’s listening, it’s gonna be hard. It’s gonna hurt. It’s gonna be really tough. Yeah, honesty, honesty is
6:59
better than being discovered. I mean, you might think that that absolute letter, but it’s not, it’s better to just suck it up, be a man and tell her what’s going on?
7:08
Yeah, yeah. And in the midst of that get help. Because Absolutely, because so many men are under this guise of, well, she’s not doing for me what I need. So I’m doing this because this is what I need and bubble. And that’s, you know, if that’s your perspective, it’s really going to hurt her. If you’re not coming at it with humility, and recognizing that you’ve sinned. However, I think that both in all solutions, almost all solutions in marriage are both and I mean, the wife can do things and the husband can do things. And together, you know, God can heal a broken marriage. It’s not just one of your broken if one is, is doing something horrific, something happened along the way that, you know, maybe came from their childhood, but somehow both of you can work together on this. And, and so I would just encourage I love that your husband went and found some resources to even start the conversation, because I would just caution anyone who is like, okay, embolden, they need to tell yes, you do need to tell but, but do it with wisdom? You don’t want to? Oh, you don’t want to? Yeah,
8:08
don’t post it on Facebook.
8:11
Yeah, yeah, please. Well, and I wanted to actually go back to what something that you mentioned, you said everything in our society is replaceable, but people are not. That’s brilliant. Thank you for that. That’s so insightful. Well, I mean, and they should never be hobbies. You have a coffeemaker that breaks? Right? What do you do? Yeah. Or your phone? Or your computer? You go out and buy a new one.
8:33
It’s, it’s just not possible with people. Right? So Right. Yeah. And then the last thing I would say is growth. And we’re both we’re both in a better place emotionally, and and mentally and physically and everything right now. And one piece of rhetoric that kept getting told to us during this time was, Oh, God doesn’t give you more than you can handle. And we think that’s total crap. And here’s why. It’s only in the midst of brokenness, do you learn to trust and so God gives you more than you can handle so that you learn to trust him?
9:05
Ooh, I love that. So good. Have you ever thought of like doing greeting cards or something? You’re so good at Little Liars? They’re brilliant.
9:15
Well, I’ve had a couple of weeks to think about this.
9:18
That’s awesome. Oh, it’s good. No, this is this is really good. So I completely I hear you on that. Because I’ve probably said that thing before, like I can only that’s not a Bible verse. No, it’s
9:29
not. And it’s total crap. It really is. I mean, my counselor would always love it when I would be really really freaked out and I would send her an email saying, This is what’s going on and she would love it because the uncomfortable met growth. The uncomfortable met, change was coming. Exactly. And that’s her like little mantra. Yeah, so
9:51
yeah, I that’s, I feel the same thing. You know, if you’re not uncomfortable, you’re not growing. That’s just the way it is. which stinks. In the moment, but like you said, we learn to we learn to trust God. I mean, you know, and I’ll and I’ll share something actually, you mentioned the you know that little thing about the fear from the beginning, even a scared person can, you know do great things for God? After I posted that I had the biggest vulnerability hangover I’ve ever had in my life. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that phrase, there’s something. There’s a woman called Brene Brown, she writes a book called daring greatly, I bet you would love it actually. Write that down. It’s so good. It’s one of my favorites. But I had the most the worst vulnerability hangover and so you and I will talk about it, you know, Thursdays after you get after you, you know, share it all of this if there’s you’re no, you’re just like these things. I’m just not sure what, it’s fine. We’ll take them out. But you know, God is good. And like you said, I mean, we grow when we’re uncomfortable and funny enough, as crazy as it sounds, some of the some of the podcasts that have been the most vulnerable for me like the one about my eating disorder, Episode 20. I’ve had a greater sense of freedom since I posted that even though it was like horrific in the moment.
11:04
Oh my gosh, that’s back to secrets or shame. Yeah, amen. This red sweater was something that you kept secret. Right? That’s right. Yeah. It’s brilliant stuff. I love it. Yeah. Okay. Well, let’s move on.
11:16
We could keep on going all night. I love it. So tell me if you would be willing to share a tip or advice about intimacy, specifically, that maybe could someone could implement in their bedroom immediately? What what could you
11:28
share? So I thought about this one for a long time, too. And so I came up with another one liner for you is intimacy is not like an oil change. Okay, keep going. It’s not something you do every 3000 miles just to keep the engine going. It’s like putting gas in the car. Mm hmm. And, and intimacy is not just about sex, it’s about being vulnerable and being close. And so you can have an intimate moment while you’re having a conversation. Or you can realize an act of love through an intimate thing like putting with a laundry or doing the dishes. And for my husband, a simple hug can communicate more to him than anything else in the world. Because he knows what that does for me. And he knows the reaction that I have to fight so he knows how big it is for him. Yeah, so you have to find that love language that Gary Chapman book, we did it as a part of our premarital counseling. It was eye opening.
12:23
That’s awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And I love the you know, the gas part versus and just to be clear, no one is there’s no person involved in the car metaphor. You’re talking about putting gas in the marriage, right? It’s yeah, connection. Yeah.
12:36
Trying to like, reach those guys are like, What the heck, they’re talking about feelings. And it was trying to do like an analogy that they might understand.
12:45
No, I think it works. I think it totally works. Yeah. And it specifically sexual intimacy, the frequency deal is a big is a big deal. And it is big for husbands. And it’s big for connection, even if, and I know, this is my story a bit, it’s sometimes I’m more of a one to two times a week, girl, I’m not, I’m not interested as often as my husband is, but because I recognize that’s one of his highest needs, I want to make sure that’s fulfilled, because my highest needs are things like being held when I’m crying and you know, desperate for, you know, support in those moments that I absolutely need him, he is so willing to do that, because he’s feeling emotionally filled up. And so I just, I love that analogy of, it’s a consistent necessity to just continue to connect in intimacy in your marriage. So that’s brilliant. And I want to just ask, you know, you shared about worship and some other things before but you know, specifically to the, you know, the marriage that you’ve had, and I wonder if, you know, this involves your daughter as well, but what opportunities have you had to serve and get to get to know God?
13:49
Um, well, I play on the worship teams, and so does he, okay, I play bass guitar, he plays piano. And so that’s something that we can do together. And the, they usually try to schedule us on the same Sundays at church, so that we can be up there doing it together. And then, through the car program, I’ve been able to help other people who have found out that their relatives have been abused, and that they’re going through the court process. And so they, you know, they panic when they see that not guilty plea, come up. And I’m like, You know what, it’s exactly what happened with me. And this is why, because I’m in a rational state of mind at this point, where I can say, this is why this had to happen. So it’s, I’ve been able to, to help people just keep their sanity as they’re going through this process like my counselor did for me. And then something else that I do is I’m a quilter, which is like a super archaic hobby, but I absolutely love it. And I will I made, I make quilts I just and I give them away, I never charged for them. And so. And it’s one of those therapy things for me, you know, I can go down and spend some time with my sewing machine all by myself. And it makes me happy and at the same time and making someone else happy. So
15:15
Oh, it’s so good. That’s brilliant. Yeah, I love it. Yep, yeah, I grew up doing some, some quilting. So that’s great. It’s good. So tell me now if there’s a book or a program that you’d specifically recommend, you know, someone who’s had your journey, what, what would you recommend?
15:31
Well, as far as getting over the abuse, and such that I went through when I was little, I read Andy Stanley’s enemies of the heart. Ooh, okay, which is an amazing book. And there’s a quote in there, that goes something like this, it says, In the shadow of my hurt, forgiveness for my enemy seems like a gift. And it seems like they’re just getting off too easy. But in the shadow of the cross, forgiveness is just from one undeserving soul to another. Oh, praise God. And so it’s, it’s one of those things of I’ve gotten to the point where I forgiven my grandparents for what they’ve done. And I forgiven my parents for what they did with the neglect. I’ve forgiven the hubby. Yep. For his addiction and the pain that it’s caused. I’m still working on forgiving the abuser. That was gonna take a while.
16:31
Wow, I’m grateful that you share that because forgiveness is not just a one time and done thing. I think it’s a constant. It’s a constant, giving them to Jesus and saying, You know what, you’re my Vindicator. I cannot, you know, and that’s what the beauty is that God does say that he vindicates us. Hmm. That’s so good. Okay, so any other resources that you wanted to recommend?
16:58
Yes. IVF that Good Girls Guide to great sex. Oh, great. was amazing. I, I took that into my counselor’s office. Right after I got it. Yeah. And she almost did a happy dance. I swear. She was like, Oh, that’s amazing. Yay. Yeah, it was just able to give that real perspective on what it was supposed to be that I should have gotten when I was 12. Yeah, right. And yep, and then C are the Celebrate Recovery programs. They’re like a 12 step program, okay. But it’s all based on the biblical principles, which actually, the 12 step is based off the Bible, they just took off all the Jesus stuff out, make it so that it was PC or whatever, whatever crap. So and so I’ve been doing the car step study with my sponsor, because of my anxiety, and my highly introverted stage and my great dislike of groups. I’m doing it one on one with her, I, I don’t like going to the actual program. But they they have the one that my church does a thing where they have like a dinner the hour before. And then they have a worship service. So they call that their large group. And then they break into small groups, where it’s separated by issue and gender. So like they have a group for sex addiction with men, they have it for women, they have eating disorder groups, for women, they have anger issue, they have drug and alcohol groups, they, they basically have whatever someone’s willing to lead. So it’s a group of people all have the same gender, because that’s huge. They separate it by gender, when you’re in the small groups just to make sure that everything is appropriate. And they say that, like a woman can’t have a male as her sponsor. She has they have to stay within the same gender for the sponsor, accountability partners can be can be alternate, but the your sponsor is the same gender as us. So it’s good. If if someone is looking for a place to go get help with their addiction. Car is a good place to start.
19:08
Huh? Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome. Okay, cool. Well, now, you know, I hate that we’re wrapping up. But let me ask you if you know if there was one thing that you could tell yourself on year one of marriage, to sit yourself down what what would be that piece of advice that you would give you,
19:26
I would have told myself to consider that what I taught had been taught was wrong. And to consider a different point of view, and, and to form my own opinions, rather than just believing what I had been told.
19:41
Yeah, yeah, that’s good. That’s awesome. Well, Karen, I really have to just thank you from the bottom of my heart for you to be willing to share so deeply and such important topics that I just believe are incredibly inspiring and helpful for people to know that they They need to stop, they can and should stop hiding and stop allowing that shame to erode the trust they should be building with people that love them and care about them. And just thank you so much, Carrie wells, really?
20:14
You’re welcome. And I actually set up an anonymous email address. So if anyone wants to email me, because of what they’re going through, I am more than happy to, to write back.
20:29
Awesome. Can you share that with us now? Or shall I put it on the show? Now?
20:33
It’s a K anonymous 2015. Okay, anonymous 20 fifteen@gmail.com.
20:39
Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. And I’ll have that linked up if you’re willing to personally. Absolutely. Okay. Karen will again, thank you and looking forward to connecting more soon. Absolutely. Thank you. Karen’s awesome, and her story is amazing. We spent some time after the phone call after we finished recording, just praying together and chatting about how the enemy doesn’t want this stuff to come to light. It’s true. I mean, that we’re in a real battle here. I mean, that’s why people are so broken, and so hurt in this area, because the enemy doesn’t want this stuff to come to light, he doesn’t the isolation, the hiding the shame, all of that is he’s hurting people and causing them to stay in that place. So I just want to thank Karen for bringing this out in the open in the light, because that’s where it belongs. You know, it doesn’t belong in the darkness, where lies are but but you know, bring it into the light. So again, thank you for your bravery. Thank you for being willing to share. Thank you for reaching out to me, Karen. I’m just grateful that God is using your story, to give others hope and others the opportunity to to seek healing and restoration in their lives, in their marriages, and maybe even in their own pasts that God is just saying, it’s time to bring this to light. It’s time to really talk about this. So if that’s you, my dear wife, I just want to say there are safe people. And I am so deeply sorry, that those that you’ve trusted have violated your trust, because it wasn’t fair. And you did not deserve that. But God is the God who heals. Who holds you in your pain. Who cares about you who wipes the tears from your eyes. It says that he holds every tear that we cry in a bottle. Because he cares about them, He cares. And I believe that there’s people in your life that care too. And if you don’t know them already, let’s just say a quick prayer Father God, I just pray that any woman or child or husband or whomever is on the end of this podcast, listening I just ask in Jesus name that you would bring them to the right people that are trustworthy and safe, and give them the space to be able to share their heart, Lord, whether it’s a counselor, or a church member or mature Christian Father God, I just ask that you would bring them to the right people to share your truth and your love and your goodness and guidance Lord, In Jesus mighty name we ask Thank you, Father. Amen. Well, my dear, I love you and I am praying for you in your marriage in your life and your walk with God. We’ll talk soon.
23:31
Thanks for joining. If you’ve been inspired by this show, would you help spread the word? If you take a moment to review and subscribe others can find us more easily. Find out how to delight your marriage.com forward slash iTunes. Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion