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Hi there! Belah here. Today, I have with me Larry Hagner with gooddadproject.com. Larry has a heart for fatherhood and he knows how important his marriage is as the foundation of his family. Larry shares a very personal story about his family. When he and his wife were pregnant with their fourth child they found out some distressing news about their child. This launched the two into very challenging next weeks onto what to do for their baby. Larry shares what he learned and how God has been faithful throughout.

Scripture/Quote:

• Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 1 Corinthians 7:5

You’ll Discover:

• How a husband supported his family in one of the most challenging experiences of his life
• How Larry had to make the most uncomfortable decision, one that he never wanted to make
• Larry wondered how his marriage would survive the grief of losing their son
• A counselor and pastor gave Larry and his wife advice that he will never forget
• What Larry and his wife have taken from this painful experience and how they have hope and you can too

Books & Resources Mentioned:

• The Dad’s Edge: 9 Simple Ways to Have: Unlimited Patience, Improved Relationships, and Positive Lasting Memories by Larry Hagner

Tweetables:

• When you’re in the midst of a valley, it’s so important that you come together and pray together so that foundation is there between you and God.
• It’s the first thing you think about when you wake up and the last thing you think about when you go to sleep
• Sometimes you don’t realize what you’re up against until you explain it to someone else
• You will send a very clear message to your other boys that you don’t give up on anyone
• The story we tell ourselves in crisis matters
• I don’t know what’s going to happen or what the end result is going to be, but I know that somehow it is going to make us stronger

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

Love,

Belah

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Transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host belah. Rose.

0:19
Hello there, and welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. Thank you so much for joining me in the new year. 2016. awesome to have you back. We had a couple of weeks break. And I hope that you had a wonderful Christmas and New Year. And yeah, I’m just excited to have you back. If you did get a chance to spend time with your husband or wife, and dream a little bit about the new year, I hope you got a chance to just because God is the God of hope. And he wants us to have hope. And today we have a really moving story from a man named Larry Hagner, we’re going to get into that in a minute. But it’s powerful. And even in the midst of really, really challenging things, we can still have hope that is part of this amazing journey with Christ is that we get to have hope in the midst of really challenging situations. So I am going to share with you an email that I received, I usually share iTunes reviews, which I so appreciate. So if you haven’t gotten a chance to send us an iTunes review, please do that. But let me go ahead and read this. I just got it, I think yesterday. So it says the podcast is fantastic. I’ve been a pastor for 25 years, and we’ve needed you many, many years ago. It’s going to help millions of people. My wife, and I listen while we work out and we’re loving your sincerity, which is superseded by your passion for God, which gives the whole podcast great validity. So keep up the great work. So thank you so much for the email. Thank you for those of you that listen and reach out to me or do the iTunes review that just matters so much. And I so appreciate it because it actually helps people find the podcast and it might be something that’s going to change their life. So I’d encourage you to do that. If you haven’t gotten a chance. Thank you. All right. Well, today again is Larry Hagner story. And I’d say probably get the tissues ready for this one. It’s it’s a powerful story. And I think he’s got some wonderful lessons that he shares with us. It matters a lot to your marriage, what you go through together and I think Larry’s got some wonderful principles that he pulls out of his experience as well. Alright, let’s go ahead and dive in.

2:36
Welcome back to let your marriage listeners. I’m really thrilled that you’re joining me today. Thank you.

2:41
And I’ve got a really special guest, Mr. Larry Hagner from good dad, Project calm. Welcome, Larry.

2:48
Hey, how you doing? belah.

2:50
I’m doing great. I’m really great. I’m really excited to have you. And I’m really excited to jump into your story. And you’ve got an awesome heart for dads and for kids. And I want you to talk about that. But would you be willing to introduce yourself, your family and a little bit about your day to day life?

3:05
Sure. So I started the good dad project about four years ago. And really what has developed into now is it’s really just a mission. We have a podcast called The good dad project podcast. We also I also have a book out called the dad’s edge that’s available on Amazon. But really, I mean, the majority of my time is spent, you know, writing, you know, I’m an author, speaker, also a husband been married for the past 13 years to a wonderful woman by the name of Jessica. I’ve actually known her for 20 years, but we’ve been married 13 years, and it’s just been a phenomenal journey. And I am a father of three boys. My oldest son Ethan nine. I have a seven year old Mason. I have a two year old Lawson. And I have a another boy on the web. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Everybody says Wow. Yeah, it’s funny once once you go from from three kids to four. Yeah, there’s no more congratulations. Like, it’s everyone says, Wow, or what’s wrong with you or seriously, so, but, yeah, he’s gonna be born here in, gosh, seven weeks or so in February. I’m not sure when this show is going to launch. I know, we’re recording here in December, but he’s gonna be he’s gonna be here in February. The cool thing is, is that we have two boys that are 20 months apart. So Ethan and Mason are 20 months apart. And then last one and this one will be like 24 months apart just about so it’s perfect. To into.

4:38
Yeah, no, that’s great. I’ve got a two year old also. And he’s a boy and I’ve got a one year old and so there’s, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of emotions going on with those two year olds. Oh,

4:49
yeah. Yeah. It’s funny. We were going through the terrible twos right now a little bit. Yeah, he’s a bit of a challenge. But you know, you just roll with it. I mean, being that We’ve had to already we kind of sort of know what to expect at this point. So we’re just like, yeah, we’ll get through it. And we’ll get through it too. So you always do,

5:08
as my oldest is going through it. I’m like, and now I have a second child that’s going to go through it soon. And it’s just kind of wild that that that happens. But it’s all part of the whole parenting process. So it’s good.

5:21
I have to ask real quick. So how far apart are yours and age? I mean, they sound like a year apart. Yeah, a year and a half. Yeah, they’re close. That is really close. Yeah.

5:31
Yeah, actually, my, my one year old. Today is his birthday. So a year ago today. Now, here’s something I haven’t shared on the podcast, I’ll share this with you, Larry. We actually accidentally had the baby at home,

5:45
accidentally had the baby, mentally.

5:48
We live. We live a couple blocks away from the hospital. So we were like, you know, last time it was 14 hours, we’ll have plenty of time to walk over there once it’s ready. And no, we were five hours into labor. And I was like, Baby, it’s got to happen. It’s got to happen now. And my husband drew the bath and my husband delivered the baby.

6:07
Oh, my gosh, I mean, when you first said, when you first said the hospitals are few blocks away, my first thought was like it’s far. We’re not gonna just stay home. We’re good.

6:23
That’s right. Yeah. It was a wild experience. But it was wonderful. It was like an amazing, amazing experience. And if I do you have another baby. I think I’ll try to actually plan it. So it happens at home. Not the not the accident. But it was pretty, it was pretty crazy. It was really an amazing experience.

6:40
You are brave, brave, brave, brave, brave woman. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I listen to your podcasts. I’m a fan of your content. But I take it to a whole new level. You’re like a ninja now. Man,

7:01
I’m taking that.

7:03
Yeah, you should. You should hats off to you.

7:07
Thank you, thank you. It was yeah, thank God everything was it was a great, it was a great experience. It was really wild. So yeah, it’s one of those things. Birth is such an interesting bonding experience. I think for a husband and wife. I think it’s just just unparalleled, you know, you’re in an absolute crisis. And you need each other to be there and hold each other strong. I think it’s it’s pretty incredible.

7:31
That’s an understatement. I think in that situation, so my gosh, I mean, give your husband a hug for me. Well, you because I mean, I you know, I’ve been in I’ve been in medical device sales also for the past 16 years. So I’ve seen surgery after surgery after surgery, and I’ve seen some pretty wild stuff and I gotta be honest with you, I don’t know if it was I’ve never passed out and I’ve seen some pretty gory things in the arm. But when my first son was born I’ll never forget this I mean that’s why I say Hats off to your husband and you in particular but the birth of my first son so I was in there and when they went to do in a PC Atomy I almost completely passed out I was I was there with my wife and my Believe it or not my actually my father in law was in a room oh gosh, as well. And what happened was is like I guess he saw my face and you know, I usually always kind of keep like a five o’clock shadow on my face and he’s like, I suddenly saw like, because I have a dark beard and he’s like, I suddenly saw like this contrast of complete pale up against the hair on your face. And then I saw these beads of sweat start to start to form and your five o’clock shadow and I started to see you sway so what he did was he actually got behind Wow, it just in case like I wasn’t because I was about ready to fall over but some I just kind of caught control my breath. And God Yeah, man. The fact you guys did that. Wow. Yeah,

8:59
it well. It’s it’s an It’s unreal. It’s just such an so anyone that’s pregnant out there. I mean, it is okay. Birth is good. It’s gonna be okay. Don’t be scared, but it’s definitely it’s an experience every single birth isn’t an experience of epic proportions. Yes, it is. That’s an understatement. Yeah, yeah. Well, so tell us a little bit about you and your wife’s personalities if you would,

9:26
oh, boy. So you know, I’m kind of my personality is I am I am like a doer. I mean, and I I’ve spent the majority of my career in sales. So I know like the different personality styles. And I am what you call a an extroverted doer. So I love people. I get my energy from people I love to speak. I’m outgoing, I kind of feed off that and as far as being a doer. Yeah, I just I write my list of what I’m going to do and the critical things that I need to do to get done and I just do them because nothing drives more crazy than to have something on my list that I know I need to get done, that is not crossed off. I mean, it just wears on me. So I’m like a doer, my wife on the other hand, she’s more of an introvert. And she, but she’s so she’s such a compassionate, wonderful wife and mother and and I mean, in our personalities are quite a bit different. But what we’ve noticed over the past 20 years from knowing each other is they couldn’t complement each other better. Because, for instance, like when I start to get stressed out, because I’m a very type a person when I start to get stressed, and I’m like, you know, I kind of get that defeat of mindset every now and again, she’s one of those people that she’s kind of like a rock, you know, she kind of reels me back in and you know, and she’s, she’s good about grounding me. And on the flip side, you know, when she gets stressed out, her energy gets really, really low. So one of the things that I can do for her is bring her energy back up. So it’s a awesome, I mean, that’s just one aspect of me, I can go into several but, but that’s really some of the dynamics of our relationship. I mean, our relationship is built so much on communication. And we, we do several things even a day, to make sure that that is rock solid, because as you know, when you have more than one kid, and we’re about ready to step into the to the land of four kids here. So important. I mean, it’s so you can you can lose each other. And sometimes once once you’re lost, it is so hard to get that back. So that’s one of the things that we are very conscious of, and we we do things on a daily basis, we do things on a monthly basis. And we even do things when we’re in the moment with each other. And I know through the interview that maybe we can go through some of those things.

11:47
Yeah, I’d love to hear more about that. But before we dive into that more, this is really about empowering and inspiring wives. And we do have a husband listeners, but it’s mostly focused for wives. And so I’d love for you to share a scripture or a quote that’s meant a lot to you.

12:02
Yeah, so one of the one of the scriptures that have really meant a lot to me, for a long time, actually, and I heard it, you know, quite a few years ago, because I think it speaks to maybe some of the ebb and flow of the intimacy of marriage, you know, times where you’re, you feel very, very close, and then times you feel a little bit distant. And I mean, I think both parties, you know, whether you’re a husband or wife, you’re you’re very well aware, and you’re very attuned to which which one of those situations you’re in. So one of the scriptures that that definitely speak volumes to me is, this is a one Corinthians seven, five, which is, Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may Devote yourselves to prayer, but then come back together again. So that Satan may not tempt you, because of your lack of self control. And I think one of the reasons I love that quote, is because I think it speaks volumes to maybe those peaks and valleys of your marriage. And when you feel that maybe, I mean, you should always pray. But when you’re in maybe a bit of a valley, that you come together, you pray together. And that foundation is there, through prayer and God and to bring each other back to that same place where intimacy can then be reestablished and reborn a little bit, and work your way back up that peak and not stay in that valley.

13:32
Huh? Yeah, yeah, I love that in it. And it’s true. I mean, marriage is alive and active, it’s not something that’s just static, you really have to be intentional about making sure that that communication is there and, and that your intimacy is able to be in a environment that is, you know, encouraging that. So I want to talk about that more, and I want to hear about a story of a struggle that you and your wife have had and, and what you learned through that if you’d be willing to share

14:05
telling this story, okay. And I’m just gonna preface this, it’s gonna be a bit controversial for your listeners. But the end result, but the end result isn’t controversial. So but there are going to be some things that I say in this story that probably gonna make some of your listeners eyebrows go up a little bit, but I want to let you know that this story does have a it has an interesting sort of a sad ending, but also a very, there was a lot of good that came out of it a lot of strength. So I would say, this is hard for me to talk about, but I I’ve done it only on a couple of other shows. But I think for your listeners, especially for the women listeners, and even for your men listeners, this is important. So it was actually a year ago, one year ago, pretty much to this moment in time that you and I are speaking my wife and I I found out just after Halloween in 2014, that we were pregnant with our fourth. And we were a bit surprised about that. Because we I mean, I don’t, I wouldn’t say we were being careful, but we weren’t really trying. And in the past, believe it or not, even though we have, we’re about ready to have our fourth again, here, we’ve always had challenges getting pregnant. But so we found out we were pregnant, and we were like, Wow, gosh, for who? Okay, but here we go, we’re ready for it, you know, so my wife is over 35. So when you’re over 35, her OB is pretty aggressive. So she wanted her to get you know, this 10 week, bloodwork drawn up of the health of the baby, and, and, you know, my wife’s panels and all this stuff that basically tells you, you know, is everything, okay? And what we found out at that 10 week mark, and we found out right before Thanksgiving of last year. So we found out number one we got a phone call from and this is the day before Thanksgiving last year. So it made Thanksgiving interesting. We got to get a call from our OB personally, she called us not her nurse, but our OB and she’s like, look,

16:05
I have some news for you. Number one, you’re having a boy. So, you know, another another boy for you. But I also have some challenging news. And that challenging news is, is your baby came back with trisomy 13. And I had no clue. And I’m sure a lot of your listeners have no idea what Trisomy 13 is, I didn’t either I had no clue what it was. Basically what Trisomy 13 is, is it’s an extra chromosome of the 13th chromosome. And what that basically means a nutshell without getting into the science behind it is that the 13th chromosome is responsible for pretty much all major organs in the body, the liver, the kidney, the lungs, the heart, everything. And what they know about Trisomy 13 Is that babies who are born with it don’t usually live past seven days, I think literally so like the the mortality rate is like 98%. The miscarriage rate. Yeah, the miscarriage rate is 40%. Wow. So we didn’t know how to digest that, that information whatsoever. When you go on, you know, Dr. Google and all that and you start doing your own research, it tends to really scare the bejesus out of you, you know, it just scares you to death. And what we found out was like, wow, you know, we are faced with something with something huge here. So we went back to our OBGYN The very next week, she sat us down, she was like, Look, I’ve been doing this for 25 years, I’ve only seen two Trisomy 13 babies in my entire practice, I and of course, like I know all about this. She was like, I don’t know of one documented case of a child living past a week. She’s like, she said, So here. Here are your three options. She’s like, and I am not coaching you to do one thing either way. But here, here are your options. Okay. Number one, the majority of patients, the majority of women and couples who are faced with this, they usually terminate the pregnancy, because they know that this child will pass away anyway. Your Your second option, you know, is basically miscarriage 40% of all cases will miscarry. But But still, that’s 60% that will go all the way, which is a pretty high number. And the third option is going full term, having the baby and knowing the baby will pass away. She’s like sometimes the babies don’t even make it through birth. She’s like, if you want to do that, I can’t I’m not the one to deliver this child, you need to go see a specialist. So those are three very grim situations. I mean, it’s like what is the best service? So so I’ll be honest with you, I’ve I’ve three kids, you know, my two are old enough to really understand they knew we’re pregnant. They knew as a boy, you know, so I have never been pro abortion ever. Yeah, I believe that it’s not our right to kill any human being whether that human being is 80, or whether it’s not even outside of the womb, it’s just not something I believe in. This is where I get kind of to the controversial part. So yeah, my automatic response to this was, we should terminate this pregnancy. And I didn’t do it because I went against everything. I believe in my wife, too. She doesn’t believe in that either. But we really sat down and we thought about like, Okay, what, what’s gonna happen if we go full term? My boys, my nine year old, my seven year old are going to watch this baby die. And this baby is going to die in the NICU hooked up to tubes and there might be pain involved, and how and then with our relationship, our marriage, like how in the world are we even going to get through this? You know how? Yeah, so it really became like, what’s the more humane thing to do in this situation? And what we thought at the time, was terminating the pregnancy. So believe it or not December 12 of last year, we had a date to go do this termination, because if we went past December 20, it then falls into the category, I guess my wife would would be too far along for regular termination, and it’d be more of a surgical procedure, and it would be a little bit more dangerous and all that. So what we did is, you know, we decided that like two weeks before December 12, and this decision, it’s the first thing that you wake up with in the morning, and the last thing you think about it at night, and every time my wife and I saw each other’s face, it was a strong reminder of what we’re up against. And we almost didn’t know how to relate to each other how to handle it, and there was a lot of stress. And plus trying to raise three other boys at the same time that we didn’t, we weren’t sharing this information with them. So December 11, came the night before we were supposed to, and I don’t know what it was I was. I was I was praying a lot about it. And sorry.

21:04
I don’t know why. I just sort of suddenly came to me that this is not right. And so I went to my wife, and I just said, you know, I don’t know about you, but I don’t think we should do this. And my wife kind of broke down. And she said, You know, I’m so glad you said that. Because, you know, I don’t want to do it either. She’s like, so I just told her, I was like, look, let’s just cancel the appointment. I don’t want to do this. Let’s go see a counselor. And maybe we should just get some coaching around this, to see what we should do. So we got my we got our pastor involved. And we also got a counselor that is involved with our church, we sat down with both of them. And we explained the situation to him. And I gotta be honest, belah I mean, like, sometimes you don’t realize what you’re up against until you explain it to somebody else. And when we were telling these two, what we’re up against, both of these grown men were just completely choked up. And they’re like, oh, my gosh, like, Okay, this is a lot. And this goes, this is a different situation. This isn’t like you’re aborting this child because you don’t want it you know, this, this baby was conceived out of love. Therefore, you know, so anyway, I’ll never forget what they told us. And they told us this. And I even wrote about this in my book, it’s in my last chapter, but the counselor looked at us and he said, Look, here’s what I do know about you both. If you decide to terminate this pregnancy, it goes against everything that you believe in. And it goes against how you were both wired. And it’s going to be a very dark thing for you. And what, what’s going to happen is when people ask you about what happened with that pregnancy, you’re going to, you know, you’re going to say, Oh, we lost it, we miscarried. And it’s going to become this very dark secret that’s going to eat away at you in the very fear of losing your marriage, because you go through this full term, he goes, I would bet that that is what’s going to destroy your marriage is the fact that you guys decided to do this. And he’s like, however, if you decide to put this child, this boy in God’s hands and take him when he’s ready, you are going to be overwhelmed by the the support, the love. All these people are going to come out of the woodwork and they’re going to lock arms with you, they’re going to pray for you, they’re going to be with you. And it’s going to be completely overwhelming. And what you are going to do Sorry is you will send a very clear message to your other boys that you don’t give up on anyone. So anyway, we became very clear what our decision was when we decided to go full term. Yeah, we were terrified. But we we felt very good about that decision. So in this story with this, and then what we got out of it. So December 28 of last year,

24:21
this whole thing came to a very surprising end. We decided, you know, at this point, we knew we were going full term we knew we were doing you know for at least a couple weeks. We were getting ready to leave for I think a holiday party with my wife’s family and my wife ran into the bathroom frantically and I didn’t know what was going on. I opened up the bathroom door, see if she’s okay, and there’s just blood everywhere. And she had a look of absolute panic on her face. And she’s like, I think I’m in labor. And so I immediately call 911 I was like, I think my wife isn’t labor. She’s only 20 weeks along I I don’t think we’re gonna make it to the hospital with blood everywhere. So next phone call I did I call my neighbors I got my two older boys out of the house, I didn’t want them to see anything. They came over, they got them. And then what happened was is the paramedics came in, we ended up having our baby boy on the floor of our bathroom, and he had passed away. And I know that sounds graphic, but we, I got to see him, he was no bigger than my hand, my wife held them, I held my wife upright while she held them. I can’t sit here and tell you that it was peaceful. And I can’t sit here and tell you that it was horrible. To be honest with you, here we are a year later. And I can’t still put words around. But what I can tell you is it was a lot more humane. And I felt like in a way it was God’s way. Even though it sounded overwhelming. Maybe it was God’s way of allowing us to say goodbye in a more humane way than what we work on originally decide. And so here’s what we learned out of that in my entire last chapter, my book is dedicated to what we learned out of that situation. So we learned perspective, we learned, okay, there are things in a marriage, right that are going to ebb and flow, there’s going to be peaks and valleys, there’s gonna be times where you’re close. And when you’re not. The biggest lesson we learned was the story that we tell ourselves in crisis. And what I mean by that is, my mind, in my heart wanted to default to the attitude of, I don’t know how we’re going to get through this, this is horrible. You know, I’m angry at the situation, you know, Jessica, and I aren’t getting along, you know, our marriage is probably gonna fall apart. And here’s the thing, if you tell yourself that, and you focus on that, that’s exactly what’s going to happen. However, every time I felt that voice that I wanted to default to the debt crept in, I immediately interdite at that, and was like, and just said, No, I’m not going to feel that way. In fact, I don’t know the reasons why this is happening. And I don’t know what the end result is going to be. All I know is that I have faith that it’s going to somehow someway make us stronger. And I kept saying that to myself over and over and over again. And it became, believe it or not a very tough strengthening lesson of how we can do that in every aspect of our life. When you feel that voice start to creep in, of, you know, a diminished view of perspective, you can immediately stop that, you know, whether that’s say a prayer, reverse those words, somehow, some way and train your mind to think a different way. And I swear, that’s what God, that’s one of the things that got us through that. And I’m sorry, no, that was a long story. But I would say that’s probably, that’s what that was one of the toughest things we went through, and it was one of the best lessons we learned from them.

28:02
That’s amazing. That’s amazing. I think all of us are touched by your story. That’s incredible. And I want to point out what you said, I don’t know why this is happening. And I don’t know what the results are going to be. But it’s going to make us stronger to it. As powerful, it’s powerful. And I know that listeners are out there, you know, tearing up and recognizing their own story in yours of hearing, you know what’s happened. It’s amazing that we started this conversation talking about births and pregnancy, and all this and, and just there’s so much pain associated with what’s happened in lives, around birth, around abortion, around all of this and to recognize that we don’t have to know why we don’t have to know what’s going to happen, but that God’s gonna use this for the good of your life and what’s going to happen. That’s what he says in Romans, he says, All things work together for good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purposes. So you can hang on to that you can hold on to that.

29:09
I couldn’t agree more. To be honest with you. I mean, I just think everything you just wrapped that up with I I couldn’t I it’s you couldn’t have wrapped up any better than that. I mean, it’s absolutely true. One of the things I’ll say too, is so in my book, it’s called the dad’s edge. And it’s nine simple ways to have unlimited patients, improve relationships and positive lasting memories. And when I was writing the book, I was done with the book, right around this whole when this whole thing unfolded. And at the time, it was eight simple ways to all those things. And my editor, he knew what was going on. And my editor said, you know, the book is great, you know, I and you give eight really good chapters on several facets of a man’s life and and how to get through things. But what you’d put the book doesn’t have is how to get through the big stuff. And what I think you need to do is write a ninth chapter on what you just went through. And I told him, I was like, You are insane. I was like, I can’t really talk about it. I can’t write about it. And he’s like, You should you have, you should, if you feel like, you know, if you felt that this was this all happened for a reason, then why not empower others with it so that the last 20 pages of my book, my book is only 100 pages, but the last 20 pages, my book took me almost three months, because it was just taxing to write. But I put it in there. And yeah, what I have found is that chapter hits home to almost every day, I get more emails, more reviews, more texts, more, more feedback on that last chapter, than anything else. So I know that it had to have happened for a reason.

31:01
Yeah, that’s powerful. That’s powerful. Thank you so much for sharing that. No problem.

31:06
Sorry. Sorry, I kind of cracked a little bit there. But it is a tough story kind of talk through. Yeah,

31:16
it’s just amazing. Thank you so much, Larry, for sharing so openly with us. And I think all of us are moved by it. And I think as as something we can take away from it is really how Larry approached the situation that when it was the last thing he thought about when he went to sleep, and the first thing he thought about when he woke up, he had kind of a mantra in his head of like, I don’t know what’s going to happen. I don’t know, what’s you know what’s on the other side, but I know that it’s going to make us stronger. I know that there’s a reason for this. And I think all of us can, can hold on to that, that ultimately, there is a reason. Ultimately, God is working something for good out of our situations. And so I just want to leave you with that and encourage you to keep that as your as your mindset as you go through the challenging times, maybe just this week. Or maybe it’s been for a while that you’ve been going through something really challenging. But remember that God has a reason for this. We don’t see it right now on this side of eternity, but somehow God’s doing something that matters. Alright, God bless you. I love you. Thank you so much for joining me, and I’ll talk to you next Tuesday.

32:26
Thanks for joining. If you’ve been inspired by this show, would you help spread the word? If you take a moment to review and subscribe others can find us more easily. Find out how to delight your marriage.com forward slash iTunes. Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion