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PII: When you have been through it, you have been through it. Jenny shares the second half of her interview where she talks about the big terrible things that can happen in marriage, but then what happens as you pick up the pieces of it all. How do you work through intimacy recovering from her sexual addiction? How do you rebuild a life after cancer? What does it look like to rely on God for your daily bread? Jenny is honest and speaks soothing balm to those who need it after the wreckage.

Check out Part I at delightyourmarriage.com/97

Find out more about Jenny Miller at wholewomenministries.com or email her about coaching thorugh sexual addiction and trauma at jenny@wholewomenministries.com

You’ll Discover:

• How Jenny found out that she had cancer when her husband was away.
• How she grieved the time she missed with her infant daughter because she was in chemo.
• What cancer does to a person.
• How a marriage can survive trauma.
• What gifts are given through the most difficult seasons of marriage.

Books & Resources Mentioned:

• Wholewomenministries.com
• Dirty Girls Come Clean by Jenny’s (best friend and) founder of Whole Women Ministries
• No Stones: Women Redeemed from Sexual Addiction
• Boundaries – a book I highly recommend (it was seriously a life changer if you have a hard time with resentment, saying “no” and overextending yourself…Jesus said no).
• Captivating – also a book that changed my perspective of the beauty in feminitiy.

Scripture/Quote:

• God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world. – C.S. Lewis

Tweetables:

• We can honestly say, we wouldn’t change anything.
• People go away after everything seems ok, but that’s when I needed them the most.
• I had to mourn the missed time with my kids because of my cancer.
• It’s ok to be angry at God, He can take it.

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

Love,

Belah

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Transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah rose.

0:19
There’s a lot of things I love about this podcast, this ministry, this business, whatever you want to call it. But I think the thing that’s on my heart today is how brave and honest my guests are, in their time with me, I just feel so encouraged after our conversation, and today is no different. If you didn’t get a chance to listen to the first half of Jenny Miller’s episode, you’ll want to go back to delight your marriage.com/ 97 and listen to the struggle she and I share about my struggle with porn addiction, and how that affects your marriage and how to get free of that and what resources there are. If you’re not familiar, it’s affecting about 37% of women, that’s more than one in three. So if it hasn’t affected you, it’s probably affected a friend. So I’d love for you to go back and listen to that. But otherwise, today, we’re really talking about Jenny’s who just, I want to say horrific challenge with cancer, I can’t even imagine what that has been like for countless women out there and how that affects your marriage. And you know, picking up the pieces after the bomb is dropped in your family. How to do that, what, what to do after the wreckage, and that’s what we’re talking about. We’re diving in. Jenny’s just real as they come she’s authentic and brave. I’m so grateful for her story. So let’s go ahead and listen in.

2:05
So okay, so, last episode, if anyone missed it, I want you to go back and listen to Jenny’s story. But we talked about pornography addiction in women. And it’s so under talked about, it’s crazy. But it’s something I struggled with something Jenny struggled with 37% of women either are currently struggling with it. So yeah, so that’s what we’ve kind of are coming from. But Jenny, you know, you walked through recovery in the context of your marriage. And I want to know, you know, a little bit about what your marriage looks like now, and, you know, through this recovery period.

2:44
Well, as far as what my marriage looks like, now, I’d love to tell you, my marriage is perfect. But that’s not the reality. Some days, it’s it’s beautiful. And some days, it’s really tough. But one thing that I have to say that my husband and I decided is that we made the decision that we’re not quitting. We’ve had some you know, if you’ve listened to the other podcast, I shared, you know, just my addiction, and then also dealing with breast cancer, it was just to double Whammies. And we keep getting hit, you know, I’m coming up on three years, it’s October, my son just broke his arm and needs all kinds of surgeries all over. It’s just, it’s there’s always going to be things that are going to come to assault, you know, you and try to trip you up. But we made the decision to not quit no matter what, no matter how hard the work is, you know, he’s made mistakes, I’ve made mistakes, but we’re learning to be Jesus to each other, because we always seek to be more like Him. And so I’m learning to show him the same grace that Christ showed me. And vice versa. You know, he has been Christ to me. And so we we make that article, I think it like you had mentioned in the last podcast, we’re going to kind of course correct back to center where it needs to be.

3:56
Yeah, no, and I think that’s powerful. One, just the acknowledgement that your marriage isn’t perfect. And it’s such freedom, like I look at, you know, the different things that happen in my marriage, and I do this ministry, and, you know, I’ve done the video course, and the book and all these things, and I feel like, you know, my marriage has to be perfect by now. And no, we still have things that we’re either working through or just little blips that just happen because of whatever’s going on. I mean, honestly, there’s been things that we’ve had to struggle through even like physical symptoms of allergies and things that are affecting our moods and, and all this stuff. So I just appreciate that acknowledgement that we’re still working through it. And the other thing that’s cool, is it kind of like a recommitment that you’re not quitting, like, obviously, you got married, so there was that commitment there. But I mean, how did you decide this kind of second? We’re not quitting. Is this like a daily decision or was there a point in the road that you said, this is Something we’re sticking with.

5:01
I think looking back over the last 15 years, the first year was really, really rough. Because I was coming into the marriage with a ton of baggage, all of my addiction issues I was carrying with me all my previous, you know, sexual relationships and brokenness and abuses that I had experienced or was bringing with me. So the first year, just I guess, trying to realize that I he wasn’t going anywhere. And you know, he wasn’t going to leave me like I had been left so many times. And then everything was okay for a while, you know, we had two of our kids about your seven, they always talk about your seven to eight, we really had a bump in the road, which actually had me going back to into counseling, which my addiction issues still were an issue, that’s when I first started working on them in the counselor’s office. And then, you know, I’d say, when the addiction came out, because then I had to be responsible, I had to take responsibility, I had justified it so many times, my husband was an over the road truck driver, he was gone for 12 years of our marriage and only home, like one, one to two days a week. So that was kind of an impediment, in a way not intentional on his part. But in my mind I justified Well, I’m alone, I have kids I’m taking care of and he’s gone. And I have this need, I need fulfilled and, you know, realizing I couldn’t use that as an excuse anymore, I had to take ownership over that. That was a time and then, you know, again, through cancer, cancer, I have no words for it. Maybe somebody is listening that knows exactly the toll that cancer takes on a family, it changes who you are. So it’s almost like we’re starting again, because we’re different. We see everything differently. We’re coping with the changes of my body, I’m in menopause and changing with the hormonal changes. And I mean, that affects your intimate relationship. And your children have gone through the trauma. And so sometimes it feels like daily, but you know, looking back, I can see the ups and downs. But I have to say that God’s grace through it all and what he has taught us, we can honestly say that we wouldn’t change anything. And that that might be shocking to some people, like how can you say that? But I can honestly say that what God has done in our hearts and the transformation that he’s done through those circumstances? I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t change it. To have and to know what I know now.

7:33
Yes, yes. That’s incredible. Can you talk a little bit more about your battle with cancer? And I mean, yeah, thinking about wives that are listening and what that does to your marriage?

7:48
Well, my husband was away that weekend that I was diagnosed, I was actually nursing my infant daughter at the time, we were almost finished nursing, but I thought I had a blocked you know, doctor, we went, I went to the doctor, and he said, you know, just let’s go over to the hospital, get an ultrasound, just to be sure. And they were whispering when they did the ultrasound and realized, you know, what it was and actually told me that day what it was, and so my husband was away at the time. He was he couldn’t get home for three days, he was out doing a lot. He just couldn’t get back. So he had a crisis of faith that weekend, I had a crisis that weekend. And I will say, you know, it was the hardest thing we’ve ever had to do. A lot of people came around and helped and helped us get through it. I don’t want to discount how difficult it was. But I have to say that the time after cancer and the aftermath, probably is for me the most difficult part because you know, the people are like, Well, how did you get through the chemo? How did you get through the surgeries, you know, you do what you have to do when you have to do it. You’re in survival mode, you’re you’re fighting for your life, but then when that’s over, and you know that you’re gonna make it and you’re looking at the wreckage, and you’re looking at, you know, the financial issues, and your body’s changed, and people go away when they think everything is okay. And you’re and that that, to me, was the hardest thing, because that’s when I needed people the most. And your relationships changed because you’ve changed, you know, you don’t like the same things you like before or you love, you know, have a deep appreciation for things you didn’t have before. And so you change, and most people are willing to go along for the ride they don’t understand. So, that has been really challenging the after, and we’re still walking in that but I’m so grateful. You know, don’t get me wrong. I’m so grateful for life and new friendships that we’ve made. But I think it’s something that people don’t realize where people that go through like a traumatic illness like that.

9:52
Right? Right. And I can only imagine I mean, so after that first like going through The chemo and your husband, you know, walking this with you this very challenging road. What was that, like on your marriage in the midst you had young children, even an infant, right?

10:11
I did, I really can’t remember a lot of her begin to crawl and walk because the chemo just my brain was just not operating properly. So I had to mourn the loss of that miss time with my kids. They’re doing great. You know, they’re resilient kids are resilient. But I want to say that a lot of times people don’t think about the caregiver, the spouse that has to walk through that. So my husband bottled up all of his thoughts and emotions to try to take care of me and he was so wonderful. But then when everything was okay, he is when it all hit him a lot of anger, a lot of just, you know, questioning things, the stuff that I had done while I was in the middle of it, and I had already resolved it all. And then came his crisis. And so us on two different levels, because I’m like, where’s my husband that was so kind and compassionate and caring, he’s angry, he’s resentful. He’s saying, you know, and a few times he and his anger, and we’ve worked past this, but he would say, you know, it’s been two years, how come we’re not over this? You know, me, I’m like, Oh, that’s a wound of my heart. How could you say that to me? Like, I need, you know, space here. And he just wanted to be over and he didn’t know how to cope with it. And so yeah, it’s, it’s been a process and that for both of us.

11:31
Wow, wow, uh, you know, we have someone on episode 88 and 89, if anyone’s interested, but her her brother committed suicide and the amount of grief she went through. And then she really talks about how her husband had to care for her. And and that’s, you need that, like, not. And she said that the that these traumatic events, you know, what you’ve gone through is, obviously a traumatic event. It’s something like 85% of marriages don’t survive trauma. Yeah, that’s what it is. I just looked it up. So. So this is huge, huge that, you know, you all walked through this trauma and got to the other side. Why do you think you all were able to do that?

12:23
We have asked that question so many times, and it’s not just the cancer to but the percentage of families whose one spouse is over the road truck driver is like, up around that same percentage of divorce, then addiction, you know, infidelity, and whatever, that’s up there, too. And then you have cancer on top of that. And honestly, I don’t think that it’s anything that I personally did, or Randy personally did, or how wonderful personalities we are, it doesn’t have anything to do with that. I think the only thing is that we were grounded in a relationship with Christ and daily, like, we were so desperate for him. We couldn’t even breathe without him. And we I think we had started to establish that before all of this took place. And we had a crisis of faith too. We had, we were angry at God at times we. And that’s okay. You know that I want to say that that’s okay. God can handle our anger and our questions. And I think that is that is what kept us is just that constant return to the foundation of our faith, and our trust in Him and, and through speckle throughout. I call it bittersweet, because in the lowest times I feel that God spoke to me the loudest there’s a quote by CS Lewis, and I’m going to botch it because I don’t have it in front of me, but it talks about, he whispers to us. But he shouts in our pain. And so when when the things are at their worst is when God can speak the loudest and you’re so attuned to hear his voice. And I actually, at times, Miss that closeness. I don’t want to go through what I went through again, but I missed that closeness I had, because I was so desperate for him. And so I sometimes say cancer was the cure for me, because it just taught me that I need him for my daily breath. And I just Yeah,

14:25
that’s right. That’s so so true. You know, I am I went through a really hard season this last year, and I was in the hospital for time and on so much drugs that like you, I had to mourn the first first months of my son’s life because I couldn’t I can’t remember a lot of it. But the thing that I was, I was reflecting on that season with a friend. And that friend has battled Lyme disease, Lyme disease for eight years. Very amazingly. She I don’t know if anyone is familiar with Lyme disease, but it’s very debilitating. It can be depending on when they catch it, but it can basically, you can’t get out of bed for days and your whole insides are turned inside out, there’s so much discomfort and so much lack of energy. And anyway, she said that she was starting to feel better, again, years after dealing with this daily, she still deals with a lot of the effects. But she said that, you know, I started to think through that, you know, as I was feeling better, you know, I started to feel that dependency on God, my daily dependency, and I realized that that was a gift that dependency on God daily. And that meant so much to me, because as I was going through what I was going through that time, was it. Like, I had to go spend time with God or I would not make that day. I didn’t know if I could make it through that day, if I did not have that time with Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. And I’m forever different. It’s not hard for me to do my my daily time with him anymore. Because I’ve been in a season where it was so desperately needed that I, yeah, I didn’t know if I could survive if I didn’t have that time with him. Yeah, so that’s, that’s so powerful. That’s so powerful. And I just want to underscore what you said that, you know, there’s nothing special about you or your husband, that you’ve been able to surmount every huge thing that you’ve surmounted and moved forward with, except that dependency on Jesus. And I kind of want to, you know, as you you mentioned, that beautifully, you know, after the wreckage that you needed that support from others, and, you know, thinking through, you know, piecing your life back together, as you’ve been different after this. Trauma and difficulty, you know, what, um, you know, how, how have you kind of pieced that together? And how can you help someone who’s maybe piecing together their life after a wreckage?

17:09
Well, I was unable to do it on my own, it was overwhelming. I think whenever I keep going back to that daily thing, it’s God showed me something really profound. And this was only a few months ago, actually, in reference to the daily walk with him. And I think that sometimes we think that when we’re on this journey following Jesus, that we’re, he’s in front of us, and we’re following behind him. And we’re just following behind him wherever he goes, if he goes left, we go left we go. I think there’s a song that says something like that. But that’s, um, he showed me that no, this is a walk, I’m next to you. I’m sat, you’re looking over at me, and you’re matching my stride. And I’m looking at him saying, you know, how fast do you want to walk today? Jesus? How would you we want to stop here and wait a while. And those times, you know, when you feel like that he’s left? You know, we’ve all been there, like, where are you? I don’t see you. I think of those times, his times, we have run ahead of him. And we’ve kind of just said, Well, let me run ahead. And let me figure it out. Let me try to make sense of it or, and we run ahead, and he’s just patiently waiting for us to stop. And he matches back up with us, and we start to walk again. And so that’s a daily thing. You once you once you think outside of today, like how am I going to deal with next week? How am I going to deal with I go back and six months? And what are they going to say if I have cancer again? Or how am I going to deal with what I’ve lost? You know, how are you going to get this back? It causes anxiety and fear and right, those things are not of God. And it goes against our nature to just trust and to walk. But he’s so graceful, and he’s so patient with us. And when we match back up with him, there’s no shame, there’s not condemnation. He’s like, I’m just waiting for you. I’m just here waiting for you know, it’s such it’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful thing. And the quicker we can surrender and realize that the more we can be like him.

19:05
That’s so beautiful. Yes. Well, so then, you know, to kind of get to these last questions I want to ask you just do this today. Oh, you know what? I completely forgot. Is there a tip about sexual intimacy that you could share? Again, amidst everything that you’ve gone through? I’m sure sex was part of this experience with your husband. I was are there any things that you’d like to share to our audience?

19:32
Well, if I, if I could go back in Britain and think back about intimacy, and when I didn’t learn about it when I should have no one really talked to me about what true intimacy was when I was young. I mean, I think in in church, you know, you have the youth rose don’t have sex, you know, that. Don’t do it. Just don’t do it. But what is true intimacy, what is you know, and I believe that the enemy of our soul, he was on a mission, he wanted to make sure that I adopted a false sense distorted sense of what that was. And, you know, going back to the sexual addiction being an intimate intimacy disorder, I was afraid to show my real self because I thought that I would be rejected. And over time I lost my identity because I changed to be whoever what people wanted me to be. And, you know, if the rejection of my husband, you know, we would withdrawal and we didn’t want to show, you know, he didn’t want to show his true self to me because I was rejecting Him. And that was his fear of rejection. And you can see the cycle that turned and I just wish someone had told me early on that marriage and intimacy is not, you know, that fairy tale version that Hollywood sends us. You know, in all the romance novels, there’s times you want to quit, there’s times you want to give up. And I wish more people were willing to share their stories of brokenness. Maybe early on, if I had heard someone’s story, I would have felt like I wasn’t alone. And I could have done that course correct. And correction, instead of it being like an action reaction action reaction. And, you know, I get accused all the time of being too real. From people who don’t understand me, they’re like you, you do share too much. But I have to say, that’s not all bad. Because we’re not, you know, our culture is not about letting it all hang out. Or maybe it is, but in my church community, it’s not, you know, our tendency is to hide and put our best foot forward. But since I’ve been completely open, and I just share the wrongness and the realness of it is, I can’t believe the number of people that just say, Me, too, I thought I was all alone. That’s right. So you know, I would just say, you know, in our try the vulnerability, yes, there’s a fear of being vulnerable. And yes, we’ve been hurt in our past. But, you know, we can learn through Christ to highlight that heart be soften and to be vulnerable in relationship with other people and to know who is good for us and who is not good for us and not be open with everyone. But yeah, be a good steward and to pour into people that God has sent our way that are safe people.

22:02
Yeah, that’s right. And next week, you can tune in back again, and we’re gonna talk more about safe people. But that’s awesome. I’m so grateful that you shared, you know, the stories of brokenness it gives you that, I mean, hope that it could be different. And to hear that other people have struggled in the same ways and, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s community there their safety and yeah, not isolation, which the enemy wants to keep a sense. So, yeah, that’s powerful. Okay, so due to the specific marriage, you’ve had specific struggles, you’ve had specific journeys you’ve had, what opportunities have you had to serve and get to know God talked about this a bit, but

22:46
well, that like, again, that would take a long time to tell? I would say that I learned the most about the grace of God, from my husband. I grew up in church, you know, I knew scriptures, I was in Bible Quizzing program where you memorize the Bible, unpack backwards and forwards, we will go to tournaments, I mean, but in all of that knowing of Scripture, I still believe the lie that that wasn’t for me, it was that lie that was sown that I was outside, you know, the love and grace of God because I was damaged. And my husband wasn’t perfect, but God did use him to teach me about grace. And Grace is the antidote to shame. Because when you truly experience grace, God’s way, just like the song says, you know, his grace is an ocean, we’re all sinking. That just shows how deep that it is. I’ve learned the lesson about my journey with Christ is just that, you know, journey like I share that side by side. And just that prayer, you know, God, what do you want me to do just today? What do you want me to say today? And so the biggest thing is just knowing that grace is for me, it’s for me, those promises are for me, and maybe your feelings. And I say this a lot, or feelings can’t always be trusted. And we people go by their feelings. I mean, we live in a world do you know what you feel and what Be true to yourself, but our feelings are not, cannot always be trusted. Because we’re flawed. We’re broken since the fall of Adam. And so to understand that the truth of God’s word is something that we can use, and we can speak out, even if our feelings don’t match up, but we still speak that truth about grace and that truth about what who we are in Him. That is powerful. And I posted all over my house when I was going through everything, and I would get up in the morning and I would read it and I might not believe it, but I read it. I read it. And just speaking that over my home and over my life and over my family, I think is spiritually dynamic.

24:46
That’s powerful. I love that. Yeah. So is there a book or specific program that you would recommend for our listeners, maybe that are going through cancer or That kind of enormity in their life and in their marriage.

25:04
I do have a lot of resources. As far as the sexual addiction, I would recommend checking out whole women ministries.com We have a online community. On there, we have a 90 days to wholeness devotional that you can actually go through has discussion prompts that you can answer or journal through. Our founder director Krystal Renaud she’s my best friend, but she is she wrote a book called Dirty girls come clean, it has the stories of 12 women in it, including myself and hers. And it also is a great group study to as a lot of great questions at the end of every chapter. You can find that on Amazon or on the website, and there’s another book, no stones by Marnie for re F E R R E, I believe. And that’s great also, and then just for your heart, space, John and Stacy eldritch, wrote a book and it’s a few years old, it’s called captivating, unveiling the mystery of a woman’s soul. That was really dynamic for me. And also, there’s a guided journal that you can get to go with that. And then it’s good. One other book I recommend for everyone is boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend when to say yes, when to say no and take control of your life. I think Awesome. That’s a great book, too.

26:18
Yes, I love that. Okay, those are fantastic resources. I’m going to have all this linked up at delight your marriage.com/ 98 so you can just click on these links. But yes, whole women ministries that.com. Be before we are so excited about these, these resources, because surprisingly, you will be surprised when you start opening up again to save people. But they’ll want resources that that Jenny’s just been kind enough to share with us. Okay, so if you could go back to your one if your marriage Sit yourself down, what’s one piece of advice that you would give to you?

26:57
Oh, I’ve asked myself this question, too. There’s so many points where I would go back and just bring my bring my neck and say, What are you doing? Honestly, if I could sit down with that 22 year old girl who was broken and insecure, that version of myself before I got married, I would just tell her, that the journey that she’s about to go on is not easy, but that it’s worth it. That as alone as she might feel she’s never alone, and that she just needs to understand that her husband is not going to be the person that defines her that her identities and Jesus Christ alone, that our marriage is not the fix all for your brokenness or your baggage, it’s not going to disappear like magic. But only Jesus Christ can open those suitcases of that baggage and just take that from her because remember, his yoke is easy, and His burden is light.

27:48
Praise God. That is awesome. Well, okay, so lastly, you know, I’m sure people will want to know how to connect with you online, how to follow you and your resources. Where can they go?

27:59
Well, I’m working on my website right now. So it’s not up and running yet. But I’m hoping to have a blog on there and maybe offer some coaching but they can reach me by email at home and ministries, they can go to Jenny, it’s je and NY at whole women ministries.com. I would love to hear from anyone that has any questions that I can help them with or just share their story with me. So pretty much I say you can find me on Facebook, too. But emails probably the best way.

28:26
Cool. And just to clarify, what will your coaching be about so that if someone wants to work with you how, what will that be like?

28:34
Well, I’m about to graduate with my degree in crisis and trauma counseling, and like I said, I’m going to grad school, so I’m not licensed counselor yet, but I can offer coaching services. So the areas would be trauma, sexual addiction and brokenness. I can do some financial coaching as well, and things like that. So

28:52
awesome. Yeah, no, that’s good. Okay, so we’ll have your email address for people who want to know more about your coaching about trauma, sexual addiction, that kind of thing. And people can just click there so so they can get in touch with you, Jenny, this has been amazing. Thank you for your heart and everything that you shared with us. Thank

29:09
you so much for having me. Like,

29:13
I just want to be so grateful for Jenny’s heart and her story. And I hope that this conversation has sparked in you a desire to focus in on your relationship with Jesus ultimately, ultimately, that’s what this is about. Our whole marriage is to point us to God to make us more like him to grow us in our intimacy with Jesus and in our work that we’re supposed to be doing for him. I mean, it’s all that direction. And so I just encourage you to take this this has some motivation to take up a notch of whatever you’re doing and I think, you know, intimacy with Jesus looks at Different in all of our lives. For me, it means going running and talking to God while I do that, and doing Affirmations, Visualization, meditating on the Scripture afterwards, praying about my day and my walk with Him. That’s how I, as Jenny put it, you know, put my, you know, that’s how I course correct. But I just encourage you, where whatever it means for you in your life in your walk with Jesus, take that step today, start to make it a habit. Do one this week, just one time this week, that’s your only goal. Don’t you don’t have to make the goal. Seven times this week, I actually meet with women every week and we talk about our goals and we keep each other accountable. It’s really a wonderful group that we just do it online. It’s anyway, I always encourage the women, when they have a goal that they want to do, you know, 10 times this week are blah, blah, blah, this this new goal, always start small. Just start with the bare minimum, the absolute smallest thing, just make that your goal this week, the smallest step for you make that your goal in next week. You can grow that goal, but only one very small thing this week. Okay, so that’s my challenge to you until we talk next week. Again, we’re gonna be talking about safe people encourage you to, to join in again. I love you. I’m praying for you and take that one small step this week.

31:27
Thanks for listening. If you’ve been blessed by this, why not share it? Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion.