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If you’re a pastor or are shepherded by a pastor, it is important to know that the work of the pastor is hard and can have a deep impact on the leader of such work. 

In this episode, we explore the emotional and psychological cost of deeply caring for others. 

In today’s episode, we delve into compassion fatigue, its causes, and the impact it has on individuals in helping professions.

Here’s what you’ll learn:

• What is compassion fatigue and how does it differ from burnout?
• Professions most susceptible to compassion fatigue.
• Warning signs and symptoms to watch out for.
• Strategies for managing and preventing compassion fatigue.

I’m excited to speak with Kevin Bueltmann, a pastor who helps pastors with Compassion Fatigue. He went through it himself.

I encourage you to find out more about him and his ministry for pastors at https://www.shepherdscanyonretreat.org/

If you are wondering if you are burnt out and/or have compassion fatigue, we have a great conversation with practical ideas. I believe this will bless you!

Blessings,

Belah 

PS – If we can help you with your marriage, go to delightyourmarriage.com/cc to learn all the details.

Graduate Quote:

Before the program… “I felt that I was not connecting as well with my wife and children as I should. I could sense my wife’s frustration with me…I was tired, I was grouchy, I was irritable and it was affecting my most important relationships. It was negatively impacting them and my relationships with them, and it needed to change.”

After the program… ”My overwhelming feeling coming out of this course is gratitude – gratitude for my wife, for who she is, for how she has hung in there with me and not given up on me, for how she has continued to love me for who I am. I am grateful for this course and the blind spots it has helped me recognize. I wasn’t a good listener at all. I was grouchy. I was ungrateful. I was often guilty of having a transactional mindset when it came to sexual intimacy. All that has changed for the better.  It’s all about the routine, and doing things [taught in the program] each day.”

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There can only be 1 answer to this question:

Yes, or No. 

Well, who do you go to to answer questions like this?

Do you have a pastor?

A friend?

A mentor?

A favorite author?

A researcher?

A scientist?

A porn counselor?

An SA therapist?

A previous user?

Your own experience?

Your own intuition? 

Who has the authority in your life to answer this question?

Ahem… “the great Belah Rose?”

Just so we’re clear, when I said, “Let there be light”… it stayed dark.

When your pastor said it… when your favorite author/researcher/friend/counselor/author/confidante said it… probably the same.

Maybe there was a window already open, so God’s light actually allowed it to be light… but ultimately, they don’t have power or authority anywhere, ANYWHERE close to God.

God. 

But is He the biggest authority to you?

Does what He says matter to you the MOST?

I invite you to pause. Ponder. 

Are His words MOST important?

To you?

Let’s say, your answer is yes.

But then, how do you know what God says… especially about an exclusively 21st-century issue, i.e. porn?

Well, actually it isn’t a 21st-century issue.

And God speaks about it. Many times.

And He clearly answers this question.

I don’t know if you want to hear it, but He does speak to it.

Before we get there.

In truth…

Apathy is easier.

Skepticism is easier.

Laziness is easier. 

But just because you don’t care (apathy),

or believe (skepticism),

or want to (laziness),

…swim away from the impending waterfall, 

doesn’t mean it won’t kill you when you inevitably get to it.

Do you care what the Bible says? Do you believe what the Bible says? Do you want to discover what the Bible says?

I had a conversation via email with a dear friend about a year ago. I would love for you to read it to learn why I think the Bible should be pursued, is trustworthy, and can be utterly wonderful for you: delightyourmarriage.com/bible

So, to answer this question…

“The great Belah Rose” fears God too much to not tell you: 

yes, it is a salvation issue.

“Anyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart…

better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.”

Jesus says it is. We’re talking about hell. We’re talking about lust. We’re talking about salvation.

(In Matthew 5:28)

I hope one day this will be true of me…

“I never shrank back from telling you what you needed to hear… either publicly or in your homes [or in your earbuds].

I have had one message…

the necessity of repenting from sin

and turning to God,

and of having faith in our Lord Jesus.”

Acts 20:20-21

Belah

PS – Next steps:

Repent from your sin.

Turn to God [i.e. read your physical Bible to learn / discover / encounter who He actually is] and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

PPS – There IS hope AND help. Maybe we can help. Jesus most definitely can help! If you’d like to investigate whether or not we can help, we invite you to schedule a free, no obligation Clarity Call at delightyourmarriage.com/cc

Quote from a graduate of Masculinity Reclaimed:

Before MR: “My sex life was a mess before I found DYM. It’s really hard to find anyone that will talk to you about sex in a godly way. The world is full of lies, DYM pulls the truth out of the Bible and gives you exactly what you need to get on a healthy trajectory for your marriage and sex life!”

After MR: “I think my biggest celebration is just having the weight of discontentment lifted. It is so frustrating and depressing to be constantly dissatisfied with your sex life. It truly is like carrying around a huge weight. To finally be free of that and realize that I could be satisfied and happy without doing anything but changing my heart posture was amazing. I no longer feel like the victim of a bad marriage, but rather the recipient of a blessed marriage!”

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This title was hard to come up with.

Essentially, I want you to have the tools and mindset to figure out how to set boundaries with yourself, and with others, when needed.

Jesus was the servant of all. 

He came to serve, not to be served. 

He was the most humble and meek. 

And yet, Jesus set boundaries.

A lot. 

Here are a few, but once you read this, you’ll probably not be able to read a parable or look at the life of Jesus without noticing his leaning into boundaries over and over again. 

Jesus disappointed people because his priority was God over people.

In Mark 1:35-39…

• Jesus wakes up early to pray, but his disciples come looking for him, saying that, “…everyone is looking for you.”

• Jesus tells them that they need to go to other towns to preach as well, meaning that he has other priorities and can’t always be available to meet everyone’s needs.

In Matthew 16:21-23…

• Jesus tells his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes. Peter rebukes him, saying that this should never happen to him.
• Jesus responds by telling Peter that he is setting his mind on human things rather than God’s things and calls him a hindrance.

In Luke 14:25-33…

• Jesus sets the boundary of the cost of discipleship. He says anyone who wants to follow him, essentially (compared to their love for Jesus) must hate their family and even their own life. They must carry their own cross, and give up all their possessions.
• If they’re not willing to pay this price, they can’t follow him.

In John 2:13-17…

• Jesus clears the temple of the money changers and merchants, telling them to stop making his Father’s house a marketplace.
• He shows anger and uses physical force to set this boundary.

Jesus was the servant of all but did not allow anyone to trod on boundaries. 

So, what if you are trodding on God’s boundaries?

What if your spouse wants to trod on the boundaries set by God?

Sexual boundaries? 

Disrespect boundaries? 

Other boundaries?

Should you set boundaries with yourself? 

Should you set boundaries with your spouse?

If so, how? 

Is there a way to have a generous heart and a kind spirit and yet set a firm boundary? 

This conversation goes into these things that are HARD to tease through. 

I don’t think I have it all right.

This is a topic that I feel a bit reticent to release. And I think it will require prayer as you discern how it applies to you.

And what your next steps are.

Love & Blessings,

Belah

PS – Let us know if this topic spoke to you and if we can help, email us at belah@delightyourmarriage.com

Quote from a program graduate:

“I have become a delighted, playful wife that enjoys and desires sex. My relationship to the Lord, my husband and our daughter has become more intimate.”

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If you’re a wife…this podcast is dynamite! Correction…if you’re MARRIED, this podcast is dynamite!

Wow, I just gotta say…thank You, Lord, for giving our dear Belah such wise insight and for her willingness, humility, and surrender to keep sharing the powerful things that You give her to share with all of us!

After listening to this podcast, I feel like I just got a feast at a banquet table! 

This is a message that empowers our God-given role as wives, breaks it down in simple, yet incredibly insightful and inspiring ways, AND enlarges the vision for the Kingdom of God and how our role as wives plays such a vital role in it all.

I truly hope and pray that this podcast speaks to and encourages your heart as it did mine. This will be one of my favorites that gets repeated many times over!

Thank you, Belah!

Thank You, Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit for Your work in Your people and the incredible love You have for all of us that You show us the way to abundant life…and it is all though an intimate walk with you…a TRUSTING RELATIONSHIP with The King of Kings and Lord of Lords! What an amazing gift!   

Gratefully,

Darcy

PS The resource Belah mentioned is available at https://delightmarriage.lpages.co/boundaries-in-sex/

PPS If you’d like to schedule a free Clarity Call, we invite you to do so at delightyourmarriage.com/cc

A Delighted Wife client quote: 

“I’m so happy that I fought for this marriage. We are much better together than apart. We are an amazing team!” 

When asked if she would recommend the program: 

“Yes! It works! It has transformed my crummy life to an amazing, happy, fulfilled life.”

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An episode for a struggling husband — or his wife. 

To give you hope. 

See, if you don’t know what is the root of a behavior, it’s very hard to “white knuckle” yourself out of the behavior. 

Therapist Sam Tielemans specializes in helping couples who have suffered through the pain of porn addiction. 

He gives the specific reasons he sees over and over again at his practice (in Las Vegas of all places!) what is at the root of the porn addiction. 

Why does he keep going back? 

Why is he overwhelmed by shame but can’t seem to stop?

And for the wife, how can she find healing in this?

Could she understand this addiction to see that the behavior is covering up the pain?

Should she have boundaries, and what should those be (we touch lightly on this — there’s a lot more depth we’ll go into in the ladies program — if you’re interested, go to delightyourmarriage.com/cc so we can support you)?

For the man listening, Jesus took your sin. If you accept his sacrifice — you are clean. Whiter than snow. As though it never happened. 

You can walk with that confidence.

We speak more about it — but if you only read this — I want you to know the truth. 

Jesus took your sin (yes, this is a bad sin). But HE — the God of the universe — died for it. 

Don’t keep the sin and pay the price of shame anymore — God came to die to pay the price FOR YOU. 

The gift you don’t deserve. 

That’s the good news. 

As a person who was addicted to porn for years, I know you can walk in victory, too. 

Blessings,

Belah

PS — The men’s training is coming up! All new videos and fresh training for you. I can’t wait! It all starts September 12, 2022 — sign up delightyourmarriage.com/menstraining

Ladies — if you want to witness your marriage transform — go to delightyourmarriage.com/cc and get on a Clarity Call to see how we can help you. 

PPS — Sign up before you forget! It’ll be gone before you realize it!

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Our society today so often wants to ignore God’s design and essentially forget the fear of the Lord.

But, he made men and women in His image and those uniquenesses are incredible!

Physiological, psychological, emotional, and sexual…UNIQUE.

Each of our uniquenesses is God’s glory revealed.

It’s our opportunity to search out His glory through each other. 

It makes sense that the enemy wants to undermine God’s design in every way that he can.

One way is pretending that we’re the same. 

Why is this bad?

Well, husbands assume their wives are intentionally hurting them because she is “withholding” love (in the unique way he receives it), thus grounds for unfaithfulness/divorce/all manner of destruction.

And wives assume their husbands are intentionally hurting them because he is “withholding” love (in the unique way she receives it), thus grounds for unfaithfulness/divorce/all manner of destruction.

But if we start with the perspective:

My spouse, my “ezer kə·neḡ·dōw” (from Gen 2:18), is WILDLY different than me because God made him/her that way.

They desire, love, enjoy, crave completely different things than I do—let me discover what those things are!

In sum: assume you are completely different than your spouse and that you can learn how to love them the way they receive love. 

“Making love” rather than having sex is a vital piece. Listen in to learn more.

I’m praying and rooting for you in this!

Blessings,

Belah

PS – Men: your free masterclass is right around the corner starting October 11 (don’t miss it…add it to your calendar!) and sign up at delightyourmarriage.com/masterclass

transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. You’re joining me belah rose as I dive deep into the beauty, power and truth about intimacy, learn not only the practicals, but the heart behind what making love is all about. delight your marriage. Hi there and welcome. I just want to thank you so much for joining. Again, if you have listened to this podcast, you know that I am so honored that you would be here and speak with me or listen to me. It’s truly an honor. And the fact that I have an opportunity to invite you to move closer to Jesus and his welfare life is just of utmost priority to me. And very frequently, I feel humbled and so incredible, truly. So thank you for giving me a space in your life, even if it just happens to be these 46 seconds and you’re turned off by it already, and you want to go and do something else. That’s okay with me. But if you’re still here, let’s dive in. quick announcement before we get into it. First of all, I think you’re going to love this episode. It’s a kind of like a follow up to fear God forget the toothpaste, if you haven’t listened to that. I actually got a lot of response on that, which I thought was kind of cool. And I think it provoked people in. And so this is a bit more that I wanted to share with you. On similar, very related topic. So before we dive in, though, October 11, is my Men’s masterclass. And if you’ve missed it, and you’ve heard about it, don’t miss it this time. You just you don’t want to October 11 12th and 13th. Get on the list, put it on your calendar. Truly, truly wait for it and take it seriously. And many of you do you you may be one of those that have signed up and you know, have already been excited and praying through it. And people have told me they’ve reached out and actually had Bible studies around it and met on a daily to process the material together. So that’s, again, I’m so honored. But it also shows the the depth and the breadth of the work in this free masterclass that only comes around a couple of times a year. So I would encourage you delight your marriage.com/masterclass men get signed up. And shortly after the free masterclass goes through. That’s when I opened the doors for the next cohort of masculinity reclaimed. That is absolutely my favorite class to teach. And the transformations are nothing more than miracles over and over again. So if you want a miracle in your marriage, you know what to do? Do the free masterclass and see if God wants you to go forward to the full course. It’s a lot of work. takes effort takes energy takes time. But what’s more important than your first human assignment, which impacts everything in your life. More on that later. All right. Let’s dive in. Do you know that verse think it’s in James that says when many words are present or a sin is not absent? I feel like that so often because I like to talk. And when I just get in a zone, man, it’s easy to think afterwards like, shoot, I wonder, wonder if there was just too many words in that maybe I should have paused and said Okay, talk to you later. Rather than continue on my own strength and my own grace with words. But that’s kind of how I feel sometimes with interviews. So I do a lot of interviews for just different different things. Also it’s pretty cool I have a upcoming interview on a non Christian talk radio show is it gonna be it’s pre recorded so won’t be live but those sorts of things like God is so good, even non Christian avenues

4:59
but but Interviews all by themselves are kind of funny. Because you’re on the spot, you get asked a question maybe you hadn’t really thought through before. And then you’ve got to answer it. This is the same thing when I work with churches, and they want a live q&a. And yeah, that sounds fine and fun. Until you get asked some questions that seem a little outside of what you have ever talked about, or thought through deeply. And then you’re like, I’m supposed to know the answer to this, but I just have, I don’t know, I’m just gonna kind of shoot from the hip. And so I have been in that space. And there’s two things that could happen. One is God shows up and it’s just like, ah, that didn’t come for me. Thank you, Lord. The second thing that could happen is, I think about it afterwards. I’m like, that was so strange. What a strange thing to come out of my mouth. So, Lord, that’s another opportunity for your servant to be humbled. Or I say, you know, just, I don’t know, that might be for one person who listens, the rest of them, they’re gonna think I’m a lunatic. Fine. But one person, maybe they needed that. And I’m fine with it. And again, maybe it was just me, I needed to refine how I think about things. And thank God, I was asked that question. So now I can think about it better in the future. I say all of that, because when I interview others, I do not always post it. And they may have the same situation where they haven’t fully thought through their answers, and or that person, and I just don’t jive on some of the very important things that are foundational to my work. And sometimes these are extremely famous people. And I just doesn’t matter just doesn’t. So in sometimes it feels like it could harm the relationship, my friendship with them, and I still, it just doesn’t matter. I can’t be presenting what I find helpful, what I think will be helpful in coaching people in a direction, and then give them conflicting material, even if it’s, you know, five minutes of their interview it. I don’t feel good about that. Now, please don’t put me on a pedestal. There may be parts of interviews I’ve already done that. Have chunks of them that don’t make sense to how I teach. Now, it might be because I was okay with letting that in there. or what have you take it case by case. But this is, as I’m learning and growing in this work. I’m more discerning on what I allow on the podcast. So if you’ve been one of those, again, I’m honored. One of those people who’s like, I want to hear every single episode. I mean, the truth is it is getting better and better. Because I’m learning and growing. Every day, I’m asking God for more and more wisdom, I don’t want to stay the same. So if two, three years ago, I said something that was a little different than the way I say it now. That’s because I’ve grown. And that’s, that’s what you want, right? That’s what we both want. And so hopefully, if we have walked together on this journey, you’re watching me grow, because that’s my goal with God, I think we always should be growing. I have interviewed sex therapists who have more experience working with people and education and all sorts of accolades, then I certainly do way, way more they they have because they take sex on a case by case basis. They don’t have unifying men are this way. Women are this way. They don’t have that to offer. When it’s not in a Christian worldview. Here’s what I mean. The world is getting so funny. And in silly, I would say about the differences between men and women that sex therapists have gotten to a place where they say person with a penis person with a vagina. Now I actually studied this kind of stuff in college, believe it or not, because I was a philosophy major and

9:54
just some classes touched on this sort of thing. And those friends still aren’t fully helpful because sometimes somebody is born with ovaries, and not a not a vagina or, or what have you. And so even though these, quote woke people are trying to say that there’s no difference between men and women aside from specific genitalia. The trouble with all of that is that there’s nothing helpful you can say to anyone, it really doesn’t give any kind of helpful guide of how men think and how women think, except the, the reality is, when you look at science, the brain of men around sex, and their drive is two to three times larger than women. Like, there are so many physical, physiological differences between men and women, totally aside from sex, but including sex. And unfortunately, society is in the spot of stripping away the uniquenesses that God has given men and women totally different from each other. Equality 100%, for sure, God made us equal. But he made us so different. And that is to His glory and his credit, that we witness and see and perceive and walk according to these incredible uniquenesses he has given us. No, it’s not to say that every man is a certain way, and every woman is a certain way. But if you give, if I hear on a as a teacher level, I give you generalities, then within some frameworks, you can kind of see how does my particular marriage fit in there? How, how do I in particular fit in there? But if I don’t even give you that, then it’s just case by case I, you know, maybe, maybe those are just throwing things at the wall, there’s nothing concrete to say men are generally in this area, women are generally in this area. It’s kind of just you start at a, you know, start at square one over and over and over and over again. And that what’s the point of that, that’s not going to help? Now, let me ask you, if you think of a typical woman, and a typical man, let’s say they both had hair that was about one and a half inches, wherever they grow hair, it’s not shaved. It’s it’s about one and a half inches anywhere and everywhere, both naked. Now, imagine it’s you and your husband, so you’re not lusting after either. If there was an alien that came and sat in your living room, and saw both of you? Would they think men and women are the same? Would they think one entity is the same as could be exchanged for the other? It is vast, the amount of differences? Now wait just a moment? What if the alien asked a question? And then heard the voices of both the female and the male? And what if the alien said, why does this one have hair on their face?

13:34
And this one doesn’t? Why does this one have this genitalia? And this one doesn’t? Why is there an Adam’s apple on this one, and this one doesn’t? Why does this one have broad shoulders? And this one doesn’t? Why does this one have wider hips? And this one doesn’t? There’s so many uniquenesses, of male and female, that it is utterly bizarre, to try to say they’re the same. And so why do we say with all the differences that are so wildly apparent, that we would say, emotionally, psychologically, mentally, innards of a woman or a male are the same? It’s wild. It’s a it’s a, it’s a bizarre thing. And I think it comes from secular things. It’s not a Christian concept, but I think Christians have adopted it, because that’s what the sexual therapists say. And that must be right. But the problem that I see with the quote experts on sex, they don’t have anything helpful to say, you can’t say men want this. Women want that because there’s nothing it’s it’s, well, a person with a penis could want this. It really depends on their childhood. And it depends on whether or not they this or this or this. And it’s just okay. There’s nothing helpful you can say, and you can’t build on experience of working with people, because everyone was case by case by case by case by case. I’m hoping that makes sense to you. What does this have to do with fearing God? Because it’s so biblical. It’s so biblical to look at men and women differently. God said He made male and female in his image, when we deny that they’re different, we deny the unique qualities of God that is represented in male, and we deny the unique qualities of God that’s represented in female. And there is not a power struggle that was presented as God’s design in the garden. The word help meet is as our connector. And what that means is connect Oh is like a perfect half to a hole. It’s a almost reminiscent of, you know, an Eastern kind of philosophy of that Yin Yang symbol, that’s, that’s a god. That’s a god idea. You know, they kind of just like every kind of everything else, that’s God’s truth, unfortunately, represented and in the wrong. Religion, if you will, it’s, it’s something we should take as as true is that we are two sides of a hole. We are two sides of a hole. God has uniquenesses as a male and uniquenesses as a female. And yes, there are times that God is described as, as, you know, when when Jesus says, I’m like, you know, when I wept over Israel, I wanted to gather her like a hen gathers her chicks. Now that’s, that’s a feminine metaphor, isn’t it? A hen gathering chicks that’s feminine.

17:20
But oh, my gosh, there’s, there’s, you know, we talked about God the Father. So God absolutely cares about the essence of feminine and the essence of masculine. But when we think they’re the same, we undermine God’s beauty and power in the differences that he designed us. That’s why I’m so passionate about teaching men differently than I teach women. In fact, I didn’t realize this was such a secret until one of my clients said, I was talking to my wife. And she told me that, you know, when I was saying, you remember when Bella teaches XYZ, and she’s like, wait, what? No, Bella doesn’t teach that. And they, they both kind of came to realize that my curriculum for men is 100% different than my curriculum for women. And the reason is, because men need to learn a completely different set of skills than what women need to learn. And women need to learn a completely set of different set of skills. And the whole point is that you’re learning to love your spouse, well, you’re learning to love your spouse,

18:37
well. Let me tell you something super helpful. Fearing God comes through the word of God. Everything we know about Jesus comes through that book. Everything Jesus spoke about, how many times did he say as it is written?

19:06
As it is written as it is written? He specifically is quoting the Old Testament. He specifically speaking about the Old Testament. We cannot call ourselves Christians and not rely on the Bible. That’s not what Christianity is that secularism with a with a Christian. I don’t know. Love logo or something? If we are saying we are Christ followers, we believe that the Bible is true. Certainly there are things that we can understand culturally, contextually, language wise, there are things that we can learn. But the Bible is not to be judged by us. Jesus said, You shall not live by bread alone, but on every word that comes from God. Jesus wasn’t talking about his own experience, he was quoting scripture, he was quoting what he called the Word of God. So I have got just so excited about more of this, this department of my life because I, I love this little Bible that I have that’s, I don’t know, barely bigger than my hand. It’s so cute. It’s called a compact Bible, if you’re looking for one Google compact Bible, and, you know, the, the translation of your choice and, you know, maybe your your church tradition has a specific translation they recommend, and, you know, trust your theologians to help you with that. I’m not one, but I do have a passion for it. I do love the Bible anyway. Okay, the compact Bible I love, that’s what I use in the morning. And then I just got a, I think they call it a thin line, Reference Bible. Now, I made a mistake, I actually thought I was buying a second compact Bible in a different translation. But I actually bought one that was way bigger, and it was a Reference Bible. And the beauty of this is that when I’m reading it, it has like these little ABCDEFG, like, just all of the letters, basically every four or five words. And so it tells me then on the side, where that word or phrase either comes from elsewhere in the Bible, or that exact word comes from another spot in the Bible, etc. So it’s fascinating because now I can read something in the New Testament that Jesus is talking about. And I can go exactly to where it’s spoken of from the Old Testament. So I feel like this incredible sleuth, like here I am at just as smart as Jesus, because He is quoting something and I know exactly what he’s talking about. That’s right. That’s how I That’s my snooty voice. But the point is, that I’m learning a lot. And it’s really special for me to say, if God said it was true, it is true. And one thing that came to mind this morning, while I was reading, is like, if we looked at the Old Testament, as a movie, it would be so exciting, there is drama, and passion and bloodshed, and miracles and fire and consuming and armies and wild characters and bizarre personalities, and always unique ways of making miracles happen. And just, it’s, it’s fantastic. It’s so good. If you are reading it as though we’re removing the Old Testament. Um, but unfortunately, like I said, in our society today, so many times people read it, like, is this moral? Is this right? Is this wrong? And it’s like, you’re missing everything. You’re, you’re missing all the lessons that God pours out in those pages for you. You’re missing it all because you’re judging it. But if you take it like a little child and say, Oh, Daddy, show me, what do you want me to enjoy? I mean, it’s literally entertainment right there at your fingertips. So you don’t you don’t need to watch whoever, whatever the you know, whatever’s on the TV, or whatever show you’re addicted to, like literally, it’s there. It’s that fantastical, that exciting, that full of drama, that full of bloodshed and gore. And I mean, every bit of action is in there. Or romance. I mean, it’s all it’s just incredible if you look at it that

24:07
way. But what’s also in there and what is so compelling, is women and men are so different. Yes, women can learn from the lives of men in the Bible. I 100% believe that, but also women, you are incredible, and you who are represented in the Bible as well. Men can learn from you. And there are prophetesses in the Bible, there are women who their whole, you know, books of the Bible are named after them. You know, there’s all sorts but, but it is important that we’re different. And so when you fear God, I want to kind of get to the crux of my point here. Why is it so important that You recognize we’re different when I said, in this title, make love. As a woman, it’s easier for me. And I think it’s easier for most women to, quote, have sex, it’s harder for us to make love. And so that’s why I want to encourage you as a woman who follows God as one myself, who’s pursuing God, that making love is not our default. Our default. If we oblige our husbands is to just have sex. It’s like, okay, I’ll give it to him tonight, fine. Or it’s duty sex, or it’s, it’s not. It’s not really engaged, your attention isn’t really there, you’re just kind of your body’s there, and that’s about it. But when you choose God’s best for your marriage for your life, and you say, God, your first, I want to love you with my whole heart, with my whole soul with my whole mind with my whole strength. Which, by the way, because of this Reference Bible, I know that originally comes from Deuteronomy. And then it shows up again, Jesus says it multiple times when he’s asked what is the greatest law is to love the Lord your God with your all your heart, your soul, your mind, and your strength,

26:29
everything, love Him with everything. And then love your neighbor as yourself. Who was your first neighbor, who was your first human assignment?

26:45
Whether you think you chose him or her or not, that is your assignment. You may think it was a, I chose them, I said, I do fine, God is going to hold you to that commitment. They are your assignment. And they, your husband or wife is so different than you. They do not receive love, the same way that you do, just like they do not grow hair in the same places that you do. And they may grow hair in other places that you do not. There’s so many differences. assume it’s true. assume it’s true. So don’t assume that they are going to want to be loved the way that you want to be loved. And so that’s what I teach in my husband’s program, how to love a woman in my wife’s program, how to love a man. And we do it out of reverence for the Lord. We do it out of reverence for the Lord, so that we’re not distracted by a deficit of love in our lives, which causes us to feel pain. And then we can’t do what God wants us to do. But if we feel filled up in our marriage, if we feel filled up in the ways we crave love, then our capacity to do God’s work as a married person increases. Paul says it’s better if you do not marry. He wasn’t married, because I think he could easily see you’re distracted. You’re thinking about how to love your spouse. That’s a lot of time and effort and work to do it. Well. You could be better if you just didn’t worry about the whole thing. Now if you’re listening to this podcast, you got married. Alright, so bummer. All right, fine. It means you signed up for the task of loving your spouse, well, they are your first human assignment. And they do not receive love the way you do. And as a husband, your wife receives love by being safe. Emotionally, that means listening, caring about her, being the man. Just like Jesus being a man of the fruits of the Spirit safe. She can trust you. You’re trustworthy. You’re kind you’re all those things. The fruits of the Spirit. Safe known, oh my gosh, this child of God This daughter of the Most High is incredible. And not only do you know that you live like she is you think about that you appreciate those things about her in your heart and out Loud. Another third one is wholeheartedly cherished. Oh man, you love romancing that woman. That is fun. You love surprising her again, because you know her you know how to surprise her. You study this woman. You’re excited that you get to love her. Well, you get to be the one to celebrate her birthday, you get to be the one to take her to a exotic something for the anniversary. I’m just giving you ideas here. That is your opportunity. You get to love her. Well, this way you get to be the man of her dreams. So that yeah, takes a lot of work. That’s why Paul’s like, listen, just don’t get married. You can do God’s work better.

30:48
But if you’re going to do it, you better do it wholeheartedly. Okay, let’s talk to the women here. How to love your husband.

30:59
Uh, first of all respect. I don’t know why but God, I think God’s nature as being a God who says, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. God’s nature is represented in men in that quality in that need of being respected. That is a quality of God, I believe. And it’s not weakness. It’s this is how you treat a man is you respect him. Disrespect is like trampling on top of him like it is just, I see it in the faces of men as they describe their wives criticism, critiques, yelling, corrections, fights for just silly things. It is it’s so painful. The second one is admiration. Again, I think God’s Quality of wanting those to notice his his, his incredible qualities and the admiration and the worship. Now of course, we’re not worshiping our husbands but we get to notice the good. We get to appreciate we get to command we get to give help him have confidence in himself. And then finally, wholehearted sexuality. wholehearted sexual intimacy is what your husband is craving. That’s making love. whole hearted, that you are there, that you want to be there, that you enjoy it, that you’re thinking of new things to do new actions, new risks to take new things that make him excited to see you. And you’re not focused on oh, maybe he’s seen something like this before? Oh, I don’t want to remind him of that, etc. That is you, dear wife, bringing sin into the context of your marriage bed and you shouldn’t? Does that make sense? It’s the that’s your mind. As a wife, we have to discipline our minds to stay present. And I still have to do that I still have to discipline my mind to say this is God’s goodness, this is me loving the man I am assigned to Well, that’s what making love is. And that’s me engaging in nourishing cherishing, loving the experience all the way through. And when my mind wanders, I come back. And I remember and I recognize what a good man I have. How cool is it that I get to be the one to give him this experience. I get to be the one to satisfy this longing in his heart. I get to as a wife, that’s our opportunity to love well, that no one else in his life can you get to you get to. So that’s my encouragement is when we fear God when we see his design rightly. We do not think each other is the same or should be treated. The same. We are equal. But we are unique. Women and men are equal. But we are unique. And that’s what This is about I think that’s all I had to say. And I’m, you know, nervous. If I keep talking, then sins gonna sneak in there. It might have already happened. Who knows? I’ll trust that you’re going to ask God to help you to discern what’s true for you and your situation, your season your life, how God wants you to implement or change in the ways that he wants you to. So let me pray, Father, God, give us the fear of the Lord. Lord, let it be your grace, that we recognize I was reading Paul, Lord, you were the one to knock him off the donkey. You are the one to speak out of the heavens, you did that.

35:53
And he was blinded. And then when Anna NYAS prayed, the scales fell from his eyes. God give us the grace. God I asked for scales to fall out of the eyes. Lord scales to fall out, give us the fear of God. Give us your fear. Lord, let us not be on the wrong side of what you want us to be about Jesus. Give us your fear which makes us love others

36:25
well. Lord, I honor you and bless you and say do we only you can do what you want to do? In Jesus name. Amen. I love you. I bless you. We’ll talk soon

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I get so many emails from husbands. I want to send a message to their wives…the wife I used to be. I was a wife who saw sex as

• Sex is dirty
• Sex is wrong
• Sex is ungodly
• Sex is scary
• He is sinning for wanting it
• Sex is too much work
• I don’t like it / it hurts / I don’t know what to do
• He’s way too interested in sex–not healthy or biblical
• I don’t have time
• I don’t have energy
• What’s in it for me?

And so I avoided it and got resentful that the things I was doing wasn’t appreciated. He kept asking me to learn more… and I got angrier.

Well God has changed my heart on this. I have discovered that God made my husband’s member, and I am his wife. It is my privilege to be a part of intimacy with him. I am his only means of receiving this vital fulfillment righteously.

I believe this podcast will bring you closer to God. If you’re anything like I was, I wish I had known this even before I got married. If I could only understand what sex meant to him. If I could only understand God’s purposes for it.

I pray this would be something husbands can give to their wives (when she’s ready—listen and practice these 3 episodes: Encourage Your Wife’s Sexuality (How A Husband Can Help His Wife Be More Into Sex) 156, 156/157, 157 first).

Podcasts I mention:

• 132-S: The Most Important Piece To Amazing Intimacy with Belah Rose
• 144-S: The Discipline of “No” with Belah Rose
• Encourage Your Wife’s Sexuality (How A Husband Can Help His Wife Be More Into Sex) 156, 156/157, 157

Praying for you and your marriage,

Belah

Transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah. Rose.

0:19
Hey there, and welcome. Thank you so much for joining. I’m belah rose, nice to meet you. I’m trying to imagine who’s on the other side of this microphone. I wonder if you’re a wife, who was asked by your husband to listen to this podcast. And if that’s the case, I would just love to smile at you and welcome you and let you know this is a safe place. Ultimately, if I knew you, I would love to have coffee. And you and I could sit down together and you could tell me what’s going on in your heart and your background, your past, even the difficulties in your marriage now and how you’re feeling about intimacy and why it’s where it is. And I know there’s so much beneath what’s going on for you. And you probably think I have no clue how your marriage is or why it got there, or the difficulty you’re in right now. And the truth is, I don’t, there’s no way for me to know. But here’s some questions I might have in case you are at a place where I have been. You might be feeling if you are anything like I was that you’re frankly annoyed, that he’s asking you, again, to read something to listen to something to change the way you are sexually. You might be just flat out frustrated, you know, hands on your hips, or crossing your arms and being like, come on, this lady has no idea what’s going on in our marriage. And this husband of mine, over and over and over again, tries to tell me about sex. And it’s just so frustrating. I want this to stop. Another thing you might be going through is you might be hurt. Because it feels like he doesn’t think you’re good enough in bed. Once again, he’s hurting your feelings by giving you another resource to look into. Another one is you might just be angry, upset that you do so much every single day. Maybe you take care of the kids full time, which is hard work. Maybe you are working outside of the home for a paycheck. But it’s just as hard or you know, you come home you clean you do the dishes, you work with the kids. I mean, it’s a constant work in your life. And then when you’re completely exhausted by the end of the day, your husband like rolls over and wants to get frisky. You’re like are you kidding me? And then, you know, here you are trying to be good wife. And he’s asking you to listen to another thing to give you another item on your to do list, which is pages long as it is. Another thing is you might be asking, What the heck is he doing for me? When was the last time we had a date? When was the last time he picked up flowers just to surprise me? You know, how was he loving me if I’m supposed to do all this sex stuff for him. Another thing you might be thinking is, as a Christian man, he should not be thinking about sex as much as he is. However much we’re having sex, he should be grateful. Because look at Jesus. Look at Paul, John the Baptist, those guys didn’t have sex and look how much they were able to do for the Kingdom. You might be like, my husband has got to get it together. Isn’t he supposed to be dying to the flesh? And you could quote a million Bible verses at him to let him know that he’s sinful for wanting you to do those things. So I don’t know where you are. In that you might I think finally probably I would say you might also just be struggling with the whole idea that this act, sexuality in your marriage is just dirty. It’s wrong. It’s sinful. It has never been talked about in a good way. How in the world you don’t even have good language to speak about it with every time you try to talk about different different parts that either sounds like you’re reading a medical dictionary, or you’re on a, excuse me, but pornography site. I mean, this seems like a horrible thing. How in the world? Is this supposed to be positive and holy and godly?

5:16
So I kind of wanted to just give you just a little bit, maybe, hopefully insight of where I have been, as a wife, as a woman. I have been in each of those spots. I want to address each of those. But before I do, I want to tell you that I hear you. I have been there each of those items I understand completely. I have been in those spots. That’s why I can describe them. Because I have been there I am a woman I felt those things. Another thing I could say is, what about I have low libido? I don’t want to have sex. Why is his drive more important than mine? How about this one, he is selfish in sex. I don’t want to do all the things he wants me to do. Or what about this one? I do have sex with him. But he never stopped. He just always wants intimacy with Me. It’s too much. There’s are all the excuses. But I would say reasons. Those are all reasons that you’re like, This is not what I am going to do all of the time. I am not going to do all this. I’m not okay with it. I don’t think it’s the way God wants me. It’s not what he’s asking me to do as, as a wife as a person, it it’s not, honey, it doesn’t matter that much. Stop asking me to do this all the time. So if you any of those things, identify with you. That’s what this conversation is about. I hope you’ll listen in with an open heart to see if God wants to speak to you through this podcast through this episode, if there’s some truth in here that he wants to show you.

7:14
So I wonder if you can agree with me that God made the universe that God designed everything carefully. With deep detail. Every single molecule, every cell in your body is designed and created by the master himself. Your body, my dear, is a masterpiece. Whether you like it or not. God designed all of it. He designs Your beautiful eyes. He designed your glorious fingers. He designed your heart. He designed your insides, he designed your brain. And he designed your intimate, womanly parts. He designed all of that. He also designed your husband, his broad shoulders, his however your husband looks maybe he’s got a beard, maybe he’s got whatever it is, I rouse all this stuff he designed. But he also designed your husband’s penis. So just a quick note about language, I recognize that there is hard language to figure out how to say things in a good way. And I’m sorry if the wording that I’m using is not the best for your particular experience. But I’m going to try as hard as I can to make it neutral say words that don’t evoke things. So I’m hoping that you’ll give me grace and just kind of keep your heart open to what I might say beneath the wording what’s the message behind it? So let’s try that again. He also designed your husband, his broad shoulders, his however your husband looks maybe he’s got a beard or maybe he’s got whatever it is I rouse all this stuff he designed but he also designed your husband’s penis. He designed everything about your husband’s penis. Just take that in. Recognize that is true. God made his member every part of your husband’s member is God designed, God made your husband’s penis to become erect. He made your husband’s penis exactly the shape exactly the way every part of it, God designed. So let me tell you a little bit about what that means. Your husband’s penis is an appendage from his body. It’s right between his legs. Every appendage of our bodies has blood pumping through it 24 hours a day, seven days a week, the blood is constantly pumping, because it’s bringing oxygen and nutrients. And it’s also carrying out metabolic waste. It’s doing all these processes all of these things. And honestly, I don’t really understand most of it. But I will say that blood is constantly flowing. Your husband’s penis is not like anything else. The only time blood flows in there and flows out is when it’s wrecked. Which means for a healthy appendage, it has to have blood flowing. So if you were to cut off circulation from your hand, long enough, your hand would not be functional. And that’s the same way. So God designed your husband’s penis to become wrecked very often, very frequently. For this reason to stay healthy. So your husband’s penis actually has four different reasons to become a wrecked. One, you probably are very familiar with the morning erection. Very natural, happens every day, every single day he has this morning and what reaction that he wakes up with. Another one is called a reflexive erection. Which means if something or someone touches his penis, it becomes erect. Blood starts flowing, it’s very natural.

12:11
But when I say something, he literally could bump up against a trash can. And suddenly blood is starting to flow and it’s becoming erect. Another one is the mind erection right? That is when he’s thinking about sex or he sees something sexual. It comes through his mind, that’s when it actually becomes erect that way. And then the last one, right is the random erections. Literally because to keep your, your husband’s body healthy, the bloods going in the blood just going out, there’s no actual stimuli, there’s no reason aside from his body’s got to clean that thing out or get oxygen to or whatever. There’s reasons. So. So that’s, that’s the piece I want to just be clear about the way God designed your husband’s penis is to have erections. Now, shockingly, there, you’re an average husband has 11 erections every single day. 11. That’s shocking to us, isn’t it when shocking, 11 erections. And regardless of the cause, he wants to use it. Because the blood flowing into his penis, as the blood is flowing, it’s very pleasurable, every type of erection he has is very pleasurable, every type of touch is pleasurable to him. Now, us as women, we don’t have to really touch ourselves very often. It just, it’s not part of the way we go to the bathroom and things like that. But for husbands, they always have to touch their penis to use the restroom. Just to make sure it doesn’t spill onto the floor, they’ve got to touch it. And that’s pleasure that even if they’re not grasping it to orgasm, just touching it is pleasure. It’s, that’s the way it was designed. It’s not a normal appendage. It’s not anything like that. So God made your husband’s penis very specifically,

14:23
very uniquely. So talking about what your husband’s penis means to him. Let’s discuss that. His penis is what makes him a man. Think about it. It’s his whole manhood is in between his legs. If you didn’t have that, he would not be considered a man.

14:50
He would be called a unike. And I just wonder would you be would you want to marry a husband that doesn’t have a penis is that Is that what would that be attractive to you?

15:02
I don’t think so. I think you want a man, I think you want him. Because you know, it’s important. You know, it’s the thing that makes him a man. It’s what makes him special.

15:15
It’s what makes him unique. From women. It’s different. It’s, it’s that thing. It’s that part of him, that’s a man. Every day, your husband walks out into this world. And the question he asks of life is, do I have what it takes? Am I good enough? Do we have what it takes to take on this world to do this job to be there for my family, to make enough money so that we can survive to, to give to my, my wife, what she needs to serve my children to be what God wants me to be in this world? Do I have what it takes? Am I enough? Those are the questions that essence is who your husband is his heart. And his penis is the thing that makes him that man that’s asking those questions. So when his penis is not being respected in your home, he feels like he’s not enough. He feels like he doesn’t have what it takes to make it in this world. And every erection that he has, every time he sees his penis, every time he touches that it’s a reminder of the intimacy or lack of an intimacy that he has in his marriage. It’s a reminder, regardless of all the, you know, advertisements, all the, you know, nonsense that is so rampant in our world of all the sexual imagery, regardless of that, just the way he’s built, just the way the erections happen all the time, reminds him, that he’s not making love, that he’s not enjoying. his manhood is not respected in his home. So when you ignore when you reject, and sadly when you criticize, or accuse or anger really respond to his meager attempts at seduction, or, or desire for you, you’re rejecting his manhood, you’re saying, You’re not enough for me, babe. You’re not enough for this world, you don’t have what it takes. And you may be thinking, Why in the world would I have the ability to make this great man feels so terrible about himself. You know, if he was so great, he would be able to do that all by himself. It’s not up to me to make him feel that way. And I hear what you’re saying. Because certainly, there’s an element of him having to rely on God to for his self worth. But you as a woman have the privilege of making him feel like a man of honoring his manhood in your marriage, you are the only one who’s allowed to touch that to interact, to enjoy, to caress to cherish his member, he is a man because of what’s in between his legs and you are the only one that’s able to love and appreciate that. He’s sitting if he gets that any other way. That is your responsibility, and your privilege that you can make him feel alive and excited about life. I need to tell you that when a man doesn’t make love to his wife, he feels lonely. He feels depressed. He feels stressed, literally that is when oxytocin is released is at the point of orgasm. He has a much lower oxytocin load in his bloodstream than women, women, you know, seeing a baby or being cuddled or a hug. Those are things that release oxytocin in our bodies. But for a man it’s very, very low until the point of orgasm where this big surge of oxytocin is released. And it’s this amazing feeling in his body where he feels loved. He feels depreciated. He feels excited about life. He feels alive. That’s what you give him when you give him the opportunity of loving you through love making He feels your love through the act of sex. And large part is the way you feel about his member.

20:11
When you treasure that, and appreciate what God has made in him as a man, you’re appreciating what God has made in him, you’re appreciating his member, those are one and the same, believe it or not. It’s funny, I was just talking to you. It’s actually it’s amazing. I was just talking to a new friend. And she was telling me that she just got back from Iraq. And she was telling me about what’s going on over there. And, and literally, she was in a town an hour outside of I think the town is Mosul were like the hub of ISIS, that they captured this city. She is literally she was staying with a missionary family who’s there long term, missionary to the Iraqi people, right next to a refugee camp, like she was one hour away from ISIS, and staying with these missionaries. And, you know, in my heart, in my mind, I’m like, I want so desperately to help. I want to help this world that’s so in need that so is broken and suffering, you know. But the best gift I can give people that are doing the hardest work in the world. That family, I just imagine that family is giving them a strong marriage, a unified marriage, where they recognize and understand each other and the love and, and what it means to connect as as marital partner so they can fully focus on the work that God wants them to focus on. So you don’t know who God wants your husband to be, until you’re loving Him, and serving him respecting him the way that you get to as a wife, you don’t know the kind of man he’s supposed to be the kind of unified couple that you’re supposed to be until you have this. This revelation to this is in your marriage that you honor his manhood, to you respect him. As a man, you don’t know what God is going to do through you through your love, through your love. This is not something the world made up the world took God’s design, God’s creation, and they twisted it. And they turned it into what it is sin plastered all over our culture. That is sin. But in your marriage, in the garden, there was man, there was woman, they were naked, and they were on ashamed. Adam was made first God said it is not good for man to be alone. And he made Eve. It’s right there. To gather together they are to be doing this work together. They are to making love. Jesus specifically said He made man and woman so they could be one flesh. I mean, Jesus, who never married, said it was important for man and woman to become one flesh. She’s talking about the connection, the sex that you are supposed to be having in your marriage, that union, that bonding, it’s a design of God. And your husband knows it. He knows it. And I think one of the reasons is so vital to a husband is because for us as women to feel loved, to feel cherished, the things we really want to experience so that we actually get turned on and want to make love are really the fruits of the Spirit. We want to experience a man who’s patient and gentle and kind, and loving, and generous. That turns us on who’s trustworthy and faithful, who’s loyal. Those are all things that we want in a man. And if you think about it, those things go together, the woman wanting a man who embodies the gifts of the Spirit, and the man wanting to enjoy sexual love from his wife and it together, they have to serve each other in in that way. And it becomes that we’re more like Christ doing those things. So one thing you might be asking and it kind of touched on it, in the beginning, is a man of God should be dying to his flesh. Right? Jesus was able to go his whole life without making love Paul, John the Baptist. I mean, there’s a lot of monks and great saints and people that that went their whole lives without it. And you know, Jesus specifically says, I don’t have the verse in front of me, but I believe it’s Matthew 19. But he says, if they can do that they should. Basically if they can

25:07
not be connected in marital intimacy, then they should, if they cannot be married, they should, but otherwise, they should be married. Paul even talks about don’t burn with passion, get married, so you can get on with the work that God has you to do. If you’re married, you should not be burning with passion any longer because that passion should be satiated by each other, you should be making love. God designed it that way. One note I wanted to make about how these other men were able to, you know, sustain a celibate life is this is just something that may be helpful to think about is that when we make love the first time when we are a virgin, and then the first sexual experience, it literally changes brain chemistry, there are brain connections that were not there beforehand. That’s why it makes it’s so significant. When someone’s a virgin, it’s so significant, because literally, they don’t have brain connections that are there after it happens. And so, I wonder, it’s just a question. I don’t have a whole lot of, you know, I don’t have a whole lot to back this up. But I just wonder if people like Paul, Jesus that never sinned, you know, John the Baptist, these these great, great men who were able to do so much, I wonder if God didn’t give them the grace to not have the constant distraction of sex, because they never had it in the first place. So that’s kind of a wonder for me. But aside from that, if you just think about our culture, right, we’ve got scantily clad women on every advertisement, even if you don’t watch movies, aside from G rated films, you would still see it all over the place constantly. There’s sexual imagery, objectification of women’s bodies, all the time, everywhere. It’s the normal style of clothes. Now, Jesus time, in, you know, the Saints didn’t live with that kind of input. You know, there wasn’t the temptation of pornography all the time, it was very different. And when that happens, that distraction, when he gets an erection very, very naturally just happens when he, you know, begins to notice his body. And just so you know, it’s his body, he notices it every single time it happens. And when he like it happens, and he’s thinking, Oh, I’d love to be making love. If he automatically is thinking about his wife. Why then that’s a holy, that’s a holy response to this natural reaction. But if he’s burning with passion, he’s like, I need something to satiate me. That’s awful. That’s distracting. That’s not allowing him to do the work that God wants him to do. It’s completely distracting. I just again, think of what God might be wanting to do through your husband, but because he’s so desperate to be loved in his marriage. It’s just not happening. I mean, we’re we’re desperate to be loved. And we have a husband or we have a wife. I mean, can you imagine? Think if it were you, and I’m sure, you know, there’s tension in your marriage, if there’s not generous intimacy, in the marriage bed, there’s, there’s significant tension, I am sure of it. So the way you feel when you don’t feel loved, it’s just a constant thing. So I do want to talk about one thing that might be on your heart as a wife. And this happens, it really does a lot is maybe you have been in an intimate situation, and your husband has not had an erection. And now because I’m talking about how natural it is, and how it happens all the time, and every day. You’re wondering, well, why did it happen when we were going to make love? Was he not attracted to me, you know, what was going on? And I just want to, you know, kind of calm and, you know, be kind to your heart for a minute because it’s actually probably has nothing to do with you. Sometimes there are just things that get in the way of him actually being able to perform. And some of those things are stress. Some of it is health things medication is a bit Big one.

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And like I said, he’ll, he’s probably having, you know, blood flowing through having these directions and different circumstances. But it’s not because he’s not attracted to you. It’s simply because of these other elements. However, I will say once it happens once, and more than likely would happen again, because he begins to get anxious. Or maybe he’s anxious the first time and it just kind of continues on as a self fulfilling prophecy. So as a wife, the best thing you can do is whatever happens, except it with love, and cherish his member in every way. And remember that it’s pleasurable, when his member is filling with blood. So even if it’s soft, and there’s nothing that you can tell happening, you just being kind and generous with your touch and kiss and all the different wonderful aspects of loving his member, you can actually cause him to feel loved. Even if the act of lovemaking doesn’t happen, because he doesn’t have an erection, it’s going to make it much more likely that he’ll have it the next time. And either way, ultimately, he’s going to feel respected and loved and treasured as a man. Just because he doesn’t have a full on erection, it doesn’t mean that it’s not pleasurable, it doesn’t mean that he doesn’t feel that depth of love that you’re giving to him. So whatever happens in any circumstance, give him that respect, given that honor of the man and honor his manhood in the midst. Maybe you had been thinking, you know, how is it that a man is so sensitive? The truth is, God made him so sensitive in his heart, about his manhood, what’s in between his legs, on purpose, in the same way that you are sensitive about the way he speaks to you, or the way he desires you, that’s your heart. You know, if he listens to you, if he loves the way you think, and the way your body is, and all these things, you’re very sensitive to that he’s the one that can hurt you the most, because he is closest to you, that romantic relationship is unlike any other relationship and it should be, he is sensitive to this, it is very, very much a part of who he is. So what I want you to do, my dream for you, is to get to a place of loving his member. This, that might sound completely silly and ridiculous right now, and that’s okay. But this is what I want. I want you to understand that it’s not just about doing your duty, or, or, you know, giving him what he wants, whatever. It’s literally about loving his soul, in your intimacy, you are loving this man. And that God made in his member, you want to know why I think that’s so significantly is because God knew this when he made Adam. Okay, when Abraham was given the promise that all his descendants would be blessed through Abraham. And at some point, he required them to be circumcised all of the men to be circumcised. Now God could have said, You are my people. So I’m going to more mark you. So all you need to do is is you know, you need to mark your forehead with a big dot, you know, maybe a big scar. That would probably be you know, very painful, but circumcision is very painful. So something where it’s on their face, like everyone knew this is God’s person, because they have a big mark and they can see it. That is not what God required of his people. He required them to mark the thing that matters most to them. The thing that matters most to your husband is his member. That’s what God asked of his people to say, I know you and I know this is most important, and I require for you to be my people and to consecrate the thing that matters most to you as a man, to me, that that is the commitment that is the value or making to me

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that so that’s a little bit about his heart. Why his member means so much, and why the intimacy that he’s having in his marriage if he is having it or the frequency, why it affects him so very much, because it is because it is that important. So you might be thinking in the back of your mind, well, you know, great, so now I understand how vital it is to him. But when am I going to have time to do anything? I mean, already, I feel stressed. And, you know, the intimacy we do, have I, I can barely get that together. How am I supposed to do more than this? And when I think that you can either ask him to listen to this, and you can say, is this true? And if it is, you can say, well, I’ve noticed that I have X, Y, and Z to do every week. And I would like you to take on X, Y, and Z. And those phrases, I’ve noticed dot dot dot, I’d like dot, dot dot, are actually very, very good phrases for you to use. And that gives him the understanding of, I would love to make love to you. But I have got a lot on my plate. And I would like some help. So if you start thinking about what would you need to happen in your life to be able to prioritize this? And you might be thinking, well, how much do I need to be making love so that he feels satisfied and loved and all that stuff? Absolutely ask him, he might say twice a day. So that might not be reasonable. However, get to a place where he is feeling loved. And if you’re not doing once a week, get at least two once a week, if you’re getting two once a week, try for two times a week, and from there, you know, see what’s sustainable, then for you. I mean, I don’t want you to feel force I don’t. That’s not, that’s not the point, you should not feel forced to be making love to your husband. But it is what I do believe you need to do is reprioritize your life so that your marriage is just after your relationship with God. There’s there your relationship with God. And then there’s your marriage, the very next rung. Okay. And then there’s your family, your kids. And from there, it goes out to your ministry and your work and the other areas of your life. But your marriage has got to go before soccer practice, okay. Your marriage has got to go before, you know, craft DIY, DIY projects in your home. I don’t know what’s keeping you from doing that. But cut it out, cut that piece out. So that you can have what you need to be able to make love. And it’s not just, you know, you need an extra hour so that you guys can get together. It’s more than that, especially for women, we need peace in our lives, we need to have less stress. We need to feel good about our bodies, all of those things are required for us to enjoy intimacy. So how do you do that? How do you turn into a woman that likes to make love? While you need to value peace, you need to reprioritize cut the things out, they’re stressing you out. Really reassess your life and figure out what needs to be cut so I can love and value and cherish my husband. And if a husband’s listening, which I imagine you would be think about how you can approach your wife in, in loving her so that she can love you. Someone’s got to break this cycle. Someone has got to break this cycle. So taking her out to dinner, you know, loving on her the way that she receives love. I talked about that in episode 156 156 Slash 157 and 157. That’s actually three episodes, though it might sound very confusing. Listen to those, get some insights there. But figure out how you can offload her plate. What can you do? How can you make your lives less stressful? Maybe

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it means downgrading your home. Maybe it means buying less stuff, maybe it means budgeting so you don’t have to have two jobs, maybe one job and a part time job. I don’t know but this is really important. If you want to have a God centered life, you have got to value your intimacy. You can not have your husband addicted to pornography or are going on every distraction that there is in the world because he cannot get the intimacy at his own home. It’s not okay and it has to change, it has to change. And you, my dear wife have the ability to change it. You just don’t know what God might want for your marriage for your life, I have got to tell you, I am so much happier. When I am making generous love to my husband. That’s when he does the dishes. That’s when he takes care of the kids. And with a good heart, that’s when he buys me flowers. That’s when he takes me out on dates. When I am generous in lovemaking, I feel loved in every other area of my life. So if you have a low libido like I do, you still serve you still are generous, he still love his member in intimacy, there’s a lot of ways to do it, it does not have to be intercourse if you are not physically able, or if you are lacking energy at the end of the day, or if you whatever, there’s a lot of other ways to do it. But make sure that his intimacy, that connection between the two of you is made. And I say love making again, there is a lot of ways you can make love that do not have to be specific penetration, intercourse there’s, there’s so many other ways just understand how very vital it is. Alright, so we have come a long way, you have recognized that God designed your husband’s member, it was not the world’s idea. It was God’s. It’s very, very vital to his heart. his manhood is in between his legs, who he is as essential man. And you as a wife determine if he feels like he has enough in this world. Yes, he should rely on God for that. But you are, you are that one person that can affirm him as a man. And that is through however you desire, in intimacy with your husband, you affirm him as a man, he feels loved. He feels revitalized, he’s feels rejuvenated. He feels excited about life. It releases stress from his life and makes him more hopeful. God made it this way. We are important. Women, you are vital to your husband’s life. Adam needed Eve, your husband married to you because he needed intimacy in his life, he wasn’t able to be celibate his whole life, he wasn’t able to be like Paul and Paul said, If you can’t stand it fine, get married, but then keep doing God’s work. That’s what the whole point of it is. So you can do the work that God has to do fully unified, fully loving each other. That’s going to make you better parents, that’s going to make you better church members, that’s going to make you better ministry leaders, that’s going to make you better missionaries. That’s going to make you hear from God better. Because when he gets an erection when he’s there praying, it’s not going to distract him into thinking, oh my gosh, I wish I could could could could release this somehow he’s going to be like, Oh, I love my wife so much. And then he’s gonna get back to praying. Again, it’s an erection just because of a random erection or some kind of molecular, you know, blood flow process or whatever. But it happens constantly. This is his body. This is your husband. This is the way God designed him. It is holy, it is good. Intimacy with this man with your man is good and holy. If this is something you struggle with, I really encourage you to listen to episode 132. It says it’s called the most important piece to amazing intimacy. It really goes into why the world says it’s x and what it really is in God’s kingdom in the way that God sees sex the way that he designed sex. So

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next steps for you. Write down why you’re not doing this. Why is this not part of your life? What are the blocks? What are the barriers? What is the baggage? What is the pain? Write it down and journal about it? What are the things you’re not forgiving your husband of that’s preventing you from moving forward. What are the areas that you’ve been ignorant of that Now, maybe I hope and prayerfully you’re beginning to have your eyes opened to what are the things you need to understand before you can move into a greater depth of intimacy, journal these things, pray about these things. Get to an understanding that this is what needs to be happening in your marriage. This is what glues you two together for peace, for purpose for unity. I have a ton of other resources. Again, if this is your first time listening to the podcast, I, I really hope that you would prayer fully under just just seek this seek God on? Is this true? Is it real that you design my husband this way? Is it true? Is it true that this is what you care about? Is it true that you want me to love my husband’s member? The way that belah rose described it? Is that really dirty? Is it really sin? Or did I just get tainted by what the world and what this Satan wants me to misunderstand it or misrepresented as, because I want you to know do your wife my whole life. I’m talking Bella, I thought it was gross. I thought it was disgusting. I thought it was sin, I thought it was wrong. I thought all those other women are sinning by doing such nasty things to even their husband, like it just is wrong. It’s the worst. And it was a long process. But by God’s grace, my eyes are open. And this is the way God made it. Their culture was very different. I think the women in their culture understood the man’s genitalia very, very, very differently. And we’ve lost that for various reasons. But in this society, in this culture, men see sexual images all the time. It’s really, really hard for them to resist the temptation of thought, the temptation of pornography, that those temptations are real. And really, really, really, I mean, I cannot even imagine women wear scantily clothed clothes, scantily clothed things all the time around your husband. And if he is not receiving intimacy in his marriage, it’s really hard for him to turn his eyes away or not be tempted, or all these things he should be doing. But you as a wife, your his opportunity to feel loved in these ways, you’re his only opportunity to, to, in a holy way to receive that. Those desires, those needs that God put in him. So you too, could be unified for the glory of God. Because you have things that he doesn’t have. He has things that you don’t have. And so when you unify for God’s work, that’s the biggest that’s the most powerful thing. All right, so next steps action step is to journal journal through this process. Why do you think this thing’s Why are you not moving forward? What are your next steps journal through how to reprioritize your life? And then have some honest conversations with your husband? Honey, are these things true? Is this how you feel? Is this your heart? Right? Sorry, it was journal, then pray, then ask your husband about it. And figure out how you guys can reprioritize your life so that intimacy is a priority. So that you do your wife have energy for it after the end of the day, that you can change your life around so that sex becomes something that happens. You are not a victim of this world or this life, you have ability to make choices. So that intimacy is a priority. Make the choices, they’re hard choices, but make those choices. I’d love for you to listen to episode 144 If it’s really hard for you to know how to prioritize your life according to God’s will. And again, in the context of making intimacy a priority. If there are husbands listening who want to invite their wives to listen to this podcast, I really did record this podcast for you. There are so many husbands that reach out to me in absolute such suffering and pain. They have just been through. I just can’t imagine what they’ve been through for years and years and years of redacted rejection and loneliness and sadness and suffering because their own wife who committed to cherish and honor and serve him till she died. She is not even close. She’s completely non understanding who he is as a man. So these these husbands right into me at it Know how to help them. I don’t know, I do this podcast because I’m trying to get the word out. So I hope, I hope this is a gift for wives that a husband can give to his wife, when she’s ready, that he can give this to her and say, Honey, I love you. I want to live a happy future with you. I want what we are together to increase and get better and better. And I believe this is something that would really help me to feel loved when I’m with you. Together, I would love to grow in our marriage. And the reason I say when she’s ready is because I asked you dear husband, I, this may be the time to share this with her, but it may not be. And I asked you to just be prayerful about when and how to present this material to her. And, you know, listen to those episodes, I mentioned 156 through 157. See how you can implement the things that you can implement as a man that you can do what you can do as a husband to make her feel safer and more cherished and more attractive to you. And then maybe it’s going to be two months from now maybe six months from now, maybe a year from now when she’s going to be ready to receive this particular episode. Because it’s more important that it’s the right time than it is that it’s immediate. I know that you’re impatient. I know it’s been a long time. But what’s six more months when it’s been, however many years of loneliness and pain. So I encourage you to your husband on that and think about how you can help think about how you can give her like do her chores and take things off of her plate. How can you do that? How can you be active in your part there? Let’s just pray. Father, I just asked for the wife listening on the other end of my voice God, I thank you that she’s listened all the way to the end. I pray God that you would soften her heart God, I pray that you would open her eyes in the way that you desire to God. If there’s anything that I’ve said, that’s been off point, I pray God, that you would show her God I pray that you would heal her heart. There’s so many things, so many reasons. She has to feel the way she does. So many experiences. It could be abuse, it could be resentment that’s built up over the hurt and pain that she’s received from her husband. It could be ignorance that that came from her, her family and and the different you know, sin that’s that’s been put on her and I just ask that you would heal her heart. I pray God that you would heal their marriage, Lord, you want so much more for their relationship, and not just happiness, but holiness and productivity in your will in this life God that we’re living for eternity God and what they do as husband and wife in the privacy of their own bedroom matters. God give them the Insight give her the insight to understand that God and I pray that she would be she would want to understand more that she would want to seek out more and give her the grace and the time and the motivation the energy to do that Lord. In Jesus name we thank You that You are the one that changes hearts God. I pray that you would encourage the husband listening. Give him wisdom and endurance Lord, we love you. Amen.

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If you haven’t yet heard part I of Mona’s story. I’ll catch you up. She was terribly betrayed by not only her husband but he had an affair with her best friend. The horror of what she went through penetrated every part of her being.

And then she healed. Somehow, someway Mona has become a wife who says to other despairing couples “there is hope.”

Listen in to be transfixed by the story of a woman who walked an incredibly painful road but who has reason to say “you are not alone in your pain, and you can make it too”.

Resources

Unfaithful by Mona & Gary Shriver

Torn Asunder: Recovering From an Extramarital Affair by Dave Carter

The Secrets of Surviving Infidelity by Scott Haltzman

Transcribe

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Sometimes even with our best efforts, because of the society we live, can derail our thought-life. Today’s guests know that all too well. Mordechai and Ilana have 4 children and are observant Jews, in fact Hasidic Jews.

Usually my guests are Christian, but I felt they had such helpful insight for us, that I had to have them on. It’s also incredibly encouraging to hear about the culture in which Jesus came and the background from which Paul wrote his letters.

You might not agree with all that is said and you might not want to include every idea into your lifestyle. But, I deeply believe this conversation will edify you and help you to love God and His gift of Jesus SO much more.

Find out more about Ilana Danneman at marriedtoayid.com

You’ll Discover:

• How the Jewish people think about keeping their thoughts pure
• The biggest marriage lessons learned by a wife of 29 years
• A lot of insights into the Jewish and even Haicidic Jewish communities
  • That the married women keep their hair covered always
  • That even specific materials are not permitted to be sown together
  • The thoughts behind the extreme modesty requirements
  • And how many laws they actually observe…and why…and much more!
• A view into the Jewish culture that Jesus was born into and Paul writes with lived out depth of insight

Resources:

• A Tale Of Two Souls, Ilana’s book detailing insights about her marriage and faith journey

Scripture:

• Proverbs 3:18
  • She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, those who hold her fast will be blessed
• Proverbs 29:25
  • Fear of man brings a snare, but He who trusts in the Lord is kept safe.

Tweetables:

• Our physical selves are always trying to pull us down
• Our commandments pull us to go “above nature”
• We’re standing before the King 24×7
• Ask yourself “Am I doing this for the sake of heaven?”

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

Love,

Belah

—

Episodes come out Tuesday mornings. But, in case you forget…I love to subscribe with my phone so I never miss an episode. You can too:

If you enjoyed this episode or others, would you add your review to iTunes (via your phone or computer)? I don’t look at them anymore, but if you do take the time, it will help others find the podcast easier. Find out how at delightyourmarriage.com/itunes Thank you!

Trancript

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If you have had sexual sin in your marriage, it’s really hard to figure out who to talk to. Not everyone is safe. Today, Jen gets it. Her marriage suffered greatly when her husband’s pornography addiction was revealed. She helps us understand what we need in the midst of the crisis. Who we should be sharing our heart to (and who we shouldn’t). Listen in for hope and healing in this discussion.

Find out more about Jen Ferguson at pureeyescleanheart.com

You’ll Discover:

• That you are not alone in dealing with porn addiction in your marriage.
• The real reason men escape into pornography…(spoiler alert: it’s not your extra 20lbs!)
  • The world will lie to us and say we’re not x enough, that’s why our husband’s are addicted, but that’s only because they want to sell you something.
• How to overcome shame.
• What can you do to share your pain?

Scripture/Quote:

• Romans 15:13
  • May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
• Galatians 6:2
  • Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ

Resources:

• Time article about how negative porn is. It’s a helpful article (I just disagree with the first sentence).
• Pure Eyes, Clean Heart, this is Jen’s book and she walks you through the heartache and healing process she went through as a result of her husband’s porn addiction. Rest assured dear wife, you are not alone.
• Here are the links to our previous conversation about Jen’s story and heart for marriage: 67: Fixing a Porn Addiction and 68: Intimacy After Heartbreak

Tweetables:

• It’s very hard to access compassion for your husband when you’re having to jump over this wall of hurt and anger.
• Marriage is about intimacy and is a reflection of our intimacy with Jesus.
• How can you have true intimacy when there’s blackness separating you two?
• What does a safe outlet look like?
• It is not an option for me to carry this alone.
• Let’s be really, really real with God.

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

Love,

Belah

—

Episodes come out Tuesday mornings. But, in case you forget…I love to subscribe with my phone so I never miss an episode. You can too:  

If you enjoyed this episode, would you add your review to iTunes (via your phone or computer)? It will encourage me & it will help others find the podcast easier. Find out how at delightyourmarriage.com/itunes Thank you!

Transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah rose.

0:19
Thanks so much for joining us as belah rose, and I’m grateful that you’re here on the podcast with me. If you have gone through anything in your marriage that any way resembles a porn addiction, whether it’s adultery, whether it was your husband having wandering eyes, whether it’s yourself just feeling kind of insecure in a in a, you know, a culture that pretends like perfect bodies is the most important thing that we should all aspire to. I think today’s conversation is going to be really important, because we’re talking about sharing the pain. And it’s painful to find out about a sex addiction of our spouse, it’s so painful, and it feels incredibly isolating, it feels like we’re the only ones going through it. And because there’s all this shame around it, especially in Christianity. You know, it feels like we have to retreat from our Christian friends, our Christian circles, our people at church, they must not understand what I’m going through. And I want to just say the enemy wants you to feel isolated. He wants you to feel alone. He wants you to feel like this is a secret you can’t share with anybody. But that’s a lie. Because God uses people to help us to get free from the strongholds in our minds. And so today, I have a phenomenal conversation with Jen Ferguson, she was actually on the podcast before. But she’s got an amazing story. She has been there. She has experienced the betrayal and the heartache from her husband’s porn addiction. And she talks about how she shared how she talked about it, how she got healing, through prayer, through conversations with others through counseling, counseling, just an FYI, I think is huge. It’s so important. I have done counseling many times, there are always times where we can be helped by someone to talk through what’s going on in our hearts, what’s going on in our minds, directing us closer to Jesus. So I just want to kind of give that as my caveat, like, counseling is so vital. But that’s not the only thing. There’s plenty of other ways that God heals us through people. But I just wanted to give a plug for counseling, because God can really teach people through through it. Alright, well, let’s dive in to our conversation with Jen and and let’s hear how God can give us hope, even when we’re in the midst of this significant battle

3:22
All right, well, welcome back. Thank you so much for joining me on the delight your marriage Podcast. I’m really excited. I’ve got Jen Ferguson with me. Hi, Jenny. Welcome. I’m so glad to have you back. So Jen, and I talked months ago, but it was a wonderful episode. Episode You can are in, you can either go to Episode 67, or 68, to hear her story about really the pain that happened in her marriage. And that’s basically what we’re going to be diving into more is really sharing your pain? And can you kind of Jen, talk a little bit for those that haven’t heard the episode yet. Or your previous episodes? What just a little bit about your story, and then we’re going to dive more into how you process that and how you heal from that. Sure,

4:15
um, for many, many years, since my husband was in junior high, until about probably four years ago or so. He was addicted to pornography. And I happened to catch him every single time except for one time when he actually confessed to me, which was a huge breakthrough in our marriage. But I really struggled with what is I didn’t even know that looking at porn could be an addiction. So we started there kind of in my naive place, moving to Okay, well, now I’ve caught you, you should be ashamed of yourself and therefore never do it again to come into the realization that this is a really powerful addiction that the enemy is using to destroy my marriage history and so because of my own baggage, I thought the answer was to fix the problem and control them and make all these rules so that he couldn’t do it anymore. And instead of really seeking God and allowing God to change His heart, and so the whole process, and that’s what our book is about is about how did I let go of control so that God could really move not only in Craig, but also heal all the things in me, that resulted from the porn addiction, but even from my own past of needing to control and have power and make these kind of false safety nets for myself.

5:37
Mm hmm. Yeah. And, and there, I’m so grateful that you are willing to be brave and stand up and share this story and this hardship, because, as infrequently as people talk about this, it is so rampant in our society. I mean, have you have you seen like, in your interactions with people, as you’ve, you know, went for it and published his book? And have you seen like women coming out of the woodwork telling you about their stories?

6:04
Oh, yeah. And, and it’s really amazing. I’ve spoken with people on the phone or via email from all over the world. And what breaks my heart the most is that they don’t have anyone or don’t know of anyone can share their pain and relate. And so they end up calling me someone who, or you know, finding me on Facebook or whatever, which I love. Because I mean, the whole reason or as to tell this story, so that people did not, don’t feel isolated that they know that this is a problem that so many people face. But the more we talk about it, the more Satan’s stronghold of shame evaporates. And and so you know, it just kind of fostering this idea that porn addiction is not something that we can keep hidden under a rock, whether we’re the addicted or the one married to the addicted, right? Yes.

7:01
Yes, I love that porn addiction is not something we can keep under a rock and assume it’s going to go away. It just it’s not. And, and in the same way, whether you’re the one the victim of the porn addiction, you know, if you’re receiving that, like your, your husband’s addicted, your wife’s addict or something like that, or you’re the person that is addicted yourself. And you know, it’s interesting. I’ve been reading a lot about habits recently. And it’s I I, you know, it’s just kind of a, something I’m really interested in. So I’ve been reading a lot about habits. And there’s a habit called better than before. I mean, there’s a book called better than before, and and Gretchen Rubin talks about how there’s basically two kinds of people, there’s the moderator kind, and there’s the abstainer kind of person, and the moderator is like, I could have one piece of chocolate a day and I’d be fine. And the abstainers, like, if I’m going to have any chocolate, I’m going to have the whole bar or eight, right? Or I’m not going to have any right chocolate at all. And it’s funny, because I think in our society, the society is pushing on us that porn is okay. And it’s something you can do in moderation. And that’s okay. We can, you know, and that’s just a healthy part of your sexuality or norm and are normal. Yeah. And I think it’s absolutely, I mean, obviously, as Christians, we believe that it’s the abstain or like, you have to abstain. There’s really no option there. Right? Um, yeah, go ahead. Wine.

8:41
What’s really great, though, is like near the Time magazine a few weeks ago, wrote a whole article about the dangers of porn. So more and more secular psychiatrist scientists, psychologists are saying that pornography is bad, not just because it’s spiritual, take the spiritual out of it. It is wrecking the brains of our children and our I mean, men and women, it is changing the chemical composition of their brain. And that addiction has that. I mean, it’s a power to grow and grow and grow and you have to abstain from porn, or you will continue to escalate. It doesn’t just magically get better.

9:18
Huh, that is so good. That is so, so helpful. You have to abstain or it’s going to get bigger. It’s not it doesn’t just stay the same. It’s it’s a it’s a monster that wants to be fed over and over and over again. You have to starve it right? You have to starve, right? That’s really good. I’m going to link to that. I’m going to find that article link to it in the show notes. Thank you for that. Because I’d really like to look into that more. Um, so Okay, so, again, we’re talking about the wife that either either she herself is struggling with porn and I think I’ve read somewhere that it’s something like a third of women. Either are I think actively struggling so that’s not including the women that have struggled in the past with porn. And then secondly, we’re also talking about the wife that is dealing with a husband that struggling or maybe he’s struggled in the past. So, we’re talking about sharing our pain in this arena. I mean, how does a wife start to even think of sharing it? I mean, there’s so much around it, there’s so much shame, like you said, How does she even begin to, to open up?

10:25
I think, um, you know, there’s so many things that go through your mind when you have a pain like this. And honestly, you know, this was, gosh, when our first year of marriage and where we were coming up on 16 years, so 16 years ago, I knew nobody that talked about porn. So I thought that my only option was to just deal with this by myself. And it wasn’t until a few years later, when my husband became suicidal, that I had to reach out because it was like, now I was like, Oh, my gosh, I have two babies, and a husband and I, it was, he was like, My Cup is over. I couldn’t keep it contained anymore, the lid flew off, you know, is out of the bag. And so I started with his parents, because his dad was a priest. And I was like, you know, oh, my gosh, you know, um, and so I wondered if I had taken if I had not let it get to that point inside me, where it took something as radical as you know, suicidal thoughts and words coming out of my husband’s mouth, had, I been able to address some of that pain from the beginning, because, I mean, I took my pain to God, in a way, like, here’s my pain, Lord, I really need you to fix this. But because it, I’m on my own issues with control, I thought giving it to him. And then I would just take it back and start figuring out what I needed to do, right, instead of really listening to him about to tell me about what this addiction meant and everything else. And so I think when you you, this bomb drops in your lap, if you if you catch your husband, or if he come to you and confesses or whatever. It’s really important, twofold for you to be able to communicate to your husband, this is a big deal. This is this is wrecking my heart. And I need to be able to talk to someone who’s safe about this. Because it is his pain, too. So it’s like you don’t want to go and, quote unquote, out him or uncover Him, you know, he’s probably carrying a whole lot of shame. And then a lot of honestly, a lot of men that are addicted are also pastors. So for it to get out in the wrong way through and we know that churches are breeding grounds for gossip, it can just be bad news. But I think communicating to your spouse and say, I cannot carry this alone. I want to be with you. And I want to work with you on this. But I also need a safe outlet. And then kind of talking with him. What did the safe outlet look like? I’m in this situation? Do I need to go to a counselor who understands what it’s like to deal with sexual addiction or to be married to someone who’s, you know, sexually addicted? Is there a close friend or couple, a couple would be awesome, so that you have a team of people working with you, um, but really just kind of sit down and say, I need this. This is a you know, this is a requirement for me to be safe. Let’s brainstorm some people that we can both trust. And because and I also feel like it’s so important to pray and ask God who is safe in this situation? Because there could be somebody that you think is personally is perfectly safe. And given any other topic. They would be awesome and amazing for you. But right, but that’s right. If they’re in it with porn, and they’re not ready to acknowledge it, or if I’m, you know, they, if their husband is addicted, and they’re not ready to acknowledge it, or they’d have no experience and they think, right, this is not a big deal, dude, oh, man, do this, that is not going to be helpful or right and even set you back further, because then you walk away thinking I really am alone.

14:08
Right, right. Or the woman that like you said, is unaware or doesn’t even realize it’s this huge epistemic issue and she might be horrified and not even know right to do it just just, again, make you feel more and more isolated more and more shame, right. Totally agree. Okay, so. So I think the first step is really having that conversation with your husband, to try to figure out who’s a safe person that I can talk to about this that we can talk to about this,

14:43
right.

14:45
And it sounds like, you know, I remember a a dear wife that I love very much as I was just getting to know her really early on in our friendship Share that her husband was struggling with this in a group setting. And, and it was really hard to know how to respond. Because if it were just she and I talking, I would really like just hold her and, you know, have the opportunity to really figure this thing out and figure out resource and all this kind of stuff. But kind of like you said, it sounded unstead, unfortunately, like outing him. And I think there was a lot of difficulty that, you know, she was obviously hurting, right, you know, and so that was her response was to, to do this. So I think that’s, that’s, that’s like an easy, like, knee jerk reaction is to run out and get help. Tell whoever you need to as long as you, you know, find someone to help you. But it’s a little harder to say, this is the person that’s hurting me. And I’m going to go to him and submit myself to him and say, can I talk to people about this? Right, right,

15:55
right. And I think you know, and that’s part of the eye, that’s where kind of boundaries come in, because he could say, Whoa, no, there’s no way or this is not a big deal, you shouldn’t be, you don’t need to talk to anybody in minimizing your feelings. And so I think in that, when you say, I need to go to counseling for this, like, it is not an option for me to be alone in this. You, we have to come up with a way out. And so what is great about counseling, is they’re not going to tell anybody about what’s happening, you know, so I think looking for, even if you can’t tell your best friend at this moment, you can still find a place that will, you know, honor your husband’s wishes at that time, when I’m completely sacrificing what you need.

16:52
Right. I think that’s good. And I think also, it sounds like Jen, being clear about what you need is very important.

17:00
Yes, yes. And communicating that clearly. Right, because you do have needs in this situation, and your needs are valid, and but with anybody that’s addicted to something that they, you know, porn, it’s kind of like a security blanket. And so when you say to your spouse, this cannot be a part of our marriage. Like we have to bear this out and and not do this anymore, it kind of like you’re ripping away their security blanket, because they’re going this porn, the porn is filling a need for them in a very unhealthy way. But this is how they’re getting their needs met. And to be. It’s like anybody that has a drug addiction or an alcohol addiction. They’re the reason why they have that addiction. And so, um, you know, they’re going to need support in this process as well. So I think if you do the counseling, I’m, and I’m not in, you know, Craig went to counseling, and it was not a good experience. And we wrote about that in our book. So it’s so important, really, just as you’re praying for who it’s their friends that you want to share it with, paying for about that counselor and making sure that they have a good understanding of what porn addiction or sexual addiction is about. Because not all counselors are aware of that.

18:18
Huh, that’s interesting. Okay, well, let me just backtrack for a second and ask you about when you said, porn is like a security blanket. And they’re getting their needs met, what kind of needs are you talking about? And what how is porn, like, helping them go through life.

18:37
But in my husband’s example, hit he, when things were overwhelming in real life, and he didn’t have the coping skill or the capacity to deal with that he would escape into this fantasy world where he could have control, he could feel like a man without actually having to be one. It was just a complete disconnect from operating in real life. And obviously, it’s fake, like, it’s a feel good, you feel good for, you know, however long you’re engaging in it, and then you put it down and you’ve had that release, you know, the hormone release, you get the high, you get the rash, but then you just, it’s like a sugar crash, right? And then it’s like, oh, my gosh, what have I just done? Um, because you at least with Craig Craig was a Christian when he was doing all this and he could feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit, but, and he couldn’t, like it wasn’t enough at that time to convince him that there was another way to, to get his needs met, to actually get real help to rely on God to help him through whatever part of his reality was too much. And, and I think, you know, also Craig grew up to be very independent, and didn’t know how to articulate his needs, because he was afraid that they wouldn’t get met. So instead of asking real people are asking me Hey, this I’m feeling X, could you please do why? It was? Well, I’m just gonna take this need and give it to someone who can’t hurt me and get this temporary fix. You know so basically with near to asking your spouse not to use porn, you’re taking away that temporary fix and that go to where you find relief.

20:25
Yeah, yeah and I like also how you’re, we’re talking about it as an addiction because truly chemicals that are released in the porn experience does literally make the brain addicted to the pornography. So it’s it’s not only everything that you just said, but it’s additionally physical addiction, right? And so just like the alcoholic goes to alcohol to deal with life, to have that that coping mechanism, you know, the over eater like myself, I’ve had that in my past where all food Yep, to deal with that motion. Right. Right. And, and it’s funny, we were talking about the abstainer versus the moderator. I’m more of the abstain or when it comes to food, like, there are certain types of food I have had to cut out of my life completely, because of the effects it has to me, because I but yeah, I mean, we can each identify things in our own lives that we can understand our husbands in a little bit larger of a degree that if you think about this is helping him cope with life. Right. This is less about is he attracted to you, or is he not? That’s not the question here at all. It’s coping. Yeah, exactly. That’s in In fact, that’s the wrong question. I think. Now to circle back to what you’re talking about with the counseling, finding a counselor that’s understands porn addiction is vital, because the societal refrain is, well, then the wife must not be putting out or something like that. And that’s not that’s not at all what we’re talking about. What would you say to a wife that is thinking that way? Like, it must be my fault. I must be the one at issue here,

22:00
right? Well, pornography is not about sex. It’s about fantasy. And so you could and even if you tried to become this fantasy, which would be to your own detriment, most likely, it’s not the same. Like he’s because you are attached to real life. You come with real life, emotions, real life problems, real life, you know, awesomeness to and but it’s realized that he’s trying to escape not because you’re not enough to fulfill his fantasy. It’s completely separate kind of thing.

22:35
Huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. And so when, when someone who’s looking for a counselor, what are some things that they can do to find the right person?

22:50
I would definitely do your research, um, call ask questions. And get me get referrals as much information that you can gather. I mean, I would say even calling asking for a phone interview and saying, What would you This is our problem? How would you begin to address this, and if it’s only kind of behavior therapy, because everything every addiction has that route, so you want a counselor to understand that, that this is an escape from some sort of trauma or baggage from the from their childhood, or young adulthood or whatever. Because with Craig, you know, the first time he looked at it, it was that, you know, Junior High boy, whoa, you know, like, there’s that, but then to continue to keep turning to it. It bit like Satan is really tricky with this. And so it just ended up in cat in, wrapped in, in holding him or whatever. Like, he used it to say, see, this is how you can get your needs met. See, they’re not gonna do it. Right. Right, by you, you’re alone, you’re isolated, you need to turn to this, you know, and so, um, I think having a even going to a Christian counselor who understand sexual addiction is so powerful, because, I mean, Jesus is one that set Craig free, and we’re able to really heal the wounds from his past. And the ultimate answer for Craig was I need to turn to Jesus instead of porn, but it was a spiritual battle. And so to have someone who understand that there’s spiritual warfare attached to this addiction, is Yeah, is incredible, isn’t just an incredible weapon in your arsenal.

24:35
Yes. And you know what, that is a huge piece that I think a lot of times we as wives miss, because we’re so wrapped up in the pain and the hurt, which is very valid and very true and very much happening. But it’s very hard to see outside of that and say, what spiritual ramifications are happening. I mean, that takes, I mean, how were you able to see it that way?

24:57
Well, once I realized that point, wasn’t it. About me, and it really enabled me almost to like step back as a kind of like an outside of your body experience and look at the situation, not through my eyes, but through God’s eyes. And in that I was able to access compassion for my husband, which is I mean, if we, if we carry around our, this pain inside of us, it just it hardened into anger. And then, and then where are you going to go? Like, it’s very hard to access, love and compassion, when you have to jump over this huge wall of anger. And it’s very hard to pray when you’re angry, like you really pray and intercede for your husband with anger is hard, you know? And, yeah, so that’s why I think it’s so important first for you to hear me ladies that this porn is not because you’re overweight, or because you’re underweight or because your boobs are not big enough, or you have wrinkles on your, on your, you know, crow’s feet or whatever. This is not about your exterior experience. This is about your spouse’s inability to have intimate relationship, and they are afraid. And so they’re running away. And so that’s why I think I’m counseling or trusted couple or a pastor whoever understand what it what intimacy and intimate relationship with Jesus and an intimate relationship between a man and a woman is so powerful,

26:33
huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So just to reiterate, I’m so grateful. You said that this porn addiction is not about you, your exterior, the way you look like that kind of thing. That’s not what this is about. It is about your spouse’s inability to be intimate. And, and that’s vital. I mean, and the same, I think in the same breath of that is, the additional understanding of this is his way of coping with hard things. And when I’ve even had conversations with wives that just there, they just don’t want to fight it anymore. They’re just like, well, that’s what he does sometimes. Right? And, and that’s just not, that’s not okay. That’s not what God has. Because in Proverbs, I believe it’s proverbs five, it says that adultery destroys a man’s soul. And that’s what it is porn is adultery is internal adultery. Well, that’s what Jesus says, when you lust everyone with your eyes, or your in your mind, you commit it in in your heart, you’re actually committing adultery. But if you can imagine the, the wrecking what, like, I love the the perspective of spiritual warfare, because think about it. Our purpose in marriage is to prepare our husband, our spouse for eternity, we are the one that’s closest to them. We are the iron sharpening iron, they are preparing us we’re preparing them, by serving each other, we are in preparation for eternity for being Jesus bride. And so if you think about this as a spiritual, some spiritual attack, and a way that you are the opportunity for him to grow into the person he supposed to be, it changes the whole perspective, it changes your perspective on this is a spiritual thing. This is something that he’s doing that is not in line with God and you are fighting to save his soul. I just think that’s a whole different perspective than you know, yes, there’s pain. Yes, there’s anger, all that stuff, like you said, and that has been worked through. But I think eventually, to get to a place that this is a spiritual warfare, this is something that you can take arms against, how are you going to be protecting your husband? From this? How can you help him? I mean, what do you think about those things?

28:58
Alright, I totally agree, and even even more, so to build off what you said, about you know, we’re iron sharpening iron together, we’re marriage is also supposed to be the depiction of, of how Christ loves the church and that relationship. And so if you bring in this betrayal into a marriage, it eventually even if people are not seeing the porn addiction, they’re gonna see that there is an issue, right? Because we can’t access true intimacy with Jesus when we have this big piece of blackness, you know, sitting between I, um, and I think, like, if we can have a perception that porn addiction is a battle and that we’re engaging in a war. Not only are we praying over our husband, but it reminds us to pray over ourselves, because, you know, lies are powerful. And when you have a society that is saying, Well, women look like should look like this and talk like this and act like this and be everything, you know, you should be the powerful CEO and then the auto nurturing mother all at the same time, every day, every hour. I mean, there’s so much room for attack on women and on you. And so for you to be engaged in interceding for your husband, you can also be engaged in interceding for yourself.

30:19
Yes, yes. Yes, that is so, so true. And there’s so much to it, because the enemy wants you to doubt yourself to doubt, your sexual abilities to doubt your everything he wants to bring down, right. And the thing in our society, right is all about that like to make you feel like you’re not able in every way to do what you’re supposed to do as a wife, as a mother as this or that as a as a follower of Jesus. And it’s just a lie. So how does? Oh, gosh, I feel like we could talk so much more about this. But we’re wrapping up. So I want to just kind of ask you, you know, how does a wife, maybe some practical steps, let’s get to the here and now like what are some things that would be good for her to really start doing?

31:12
And well, I think for sure, bringing sharing you were talking about sharing your pain, let’s be really, really real with God, because they’re in when I’m sharing my story in the first chapter of our book, pure eyes, clean heart, I pretty much verbatim write down the conversation that I had with God on Mother’s Day when I got Craig looking again. And I said, Why the hell did you think that this was a good idea for me to marry this person, and I listed all of the pain that had I had gone through in my life, and I was like, and you’re gonna give me this, like, what is going on. And I think it’s so good to be able to, because that’s what intimacy is like to be able to tell God, anything that you need to tell him, he can take it, he is really big, and he is really able, and he understands like it says, we have, I mean, Jesus understands every single emotion, he walked this earth, just so many would know that he really does understand and he hears us. And so I would say first share your pain with God. Second, talk to your husband about finding a safe outlet for you in Galatians. Six, it talks about that we are to share each other’s burdens. And this fulfills a lot of crap, but it obeying the law because a lot is Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, all your thing, and love your neighbor as yourself. So we are not designed to carry a burden like this by ourselves. And Satan wants us to be isolated. And he wants us to feel that shame and that oppression. And the fastest way we can get out of that is bringing it to the light to people who we can trust and who have the ability to give us compassion to not say this is if some of you share it with someone and they say all men do that. You just stop that conversation, bless them and go, that’s right now because that is not the truth. And the last thing you need to do is to be having conversations with someone who is furthering the lie, you know? And that’s right. And so then you then then it prayer. I mean, prayer is part of this whole process, right? So it’s always but I’m in fire as a spiritual warfare. There’s a book by Beth Moore called praying God’s word. And it’s about all of these different strongholds, and one of them is sexual strongholds. And I would sit down every day. And I would read these scriptures that she had turned into prayer, and I would pray them over my husband, because you’re you know, prayer is a are sort of the spirit of the Word of God and then praying His Word over a husband, it makes a big difference. And even if we can’t see that, immediately, we have to trust and have faith that it is chipping that wall. And I was talking with someone just the other day, whose husband is struggling with this. And I said, you know, we as wives would love to just rip the wall down, right? And just take that security blanket way, whatever, and just rip it down so that it will be gone, because that’s what’s safe for us. But I did think about your husband, and how if God just ripped all of that away, how much fear and how much sense of exposure and just lost like, oh my gosh, how do I cope? I mean, it’s just the fact that I said I think God is so gracious to have that chisel and he just slowly chisels away and and he wounds us because relationship is about wooing and it’s about building trust. And, and so as he takes one stone down, then he gives him something else that is good and holy in life giving to feed him, you know Not you have to have a trade off. You can’t just take away everything and expect people to cope through life. You have to give them new tools. But that’s the process, right? Mm hmm.

35:10
Yeah. And it’s funny, it’s, it’s interesting, because, um, yeah, I’ll save that for another time. But I just, I’m so grateful. This is exactly right. Because it is a process, you don’t want to get to this mode of, it’s all or nothing like you’re either failing, or you’re succeeding, like you’re either failure, you know. And I think there’s even a part of that, that you’re a partner in this with him, you’re helping him fight this, you’re helping him in these areas. And of course, that’s not an easy place to get to. And of course, there’s anger and pain and healing that has to happen. But I love Jen, your heart of of going through this process. And I think, you know, clean eyes, clean heart is a really great resource that people can go through that process with you, Jen to really get through this. So tell us where they can find you online and how they can get a hold of your book. Yeah.

36:07
So we have a website called Pure eyes, clean, heart calm. And on there. There’s some articles that I’ve written for covenant eyes, there’s some periscopes that I’ve done. It’s really share my heart and some practical ways that Craig and I have worked through this point addiction and pure eyes, clean heart is on Amazon, you can check your local bookstore too. But yeah, and you can you can find you can contact us through pure, clean heart, if you just need a way need someone who understands what you’re going through. We are both available to talk with you. And just, we don’t, God is the answer. And God has a solution. But it’s so helpful for you to be able to share your pain with someone who understands where you’re going, and what you’re what you’re grappling with. Because this is this isn’t there’s not a quick fix. And that’s sometimes so hard for people that understand because they don’t want to believe that something could take so long, right? Because you’re in every time it comes up. You feel that pain of that initial betrayal again, Mmm hmm. So you need people even if you you’re two years out, and then there’s a slip up, like you’re gonna need someone to be like, Oh, my gosh, tell me that. This is not that we’re going back to square one because you’re not going back to square one. That’s right, God. That’s right. That’s healing has not been erased. God progress, right, not been erased. That’s right. But where we are human. And sometimes we get into temptations, even though we know like that it could. It’s not going to be good for us. Right? It’s like when you eat the fifth chocolate bars. That’s right.

37:44
For you. That’s right. It’s so true. And I think, you know, as wives if we can understand it, in the ways that we’re struggling with sin, we’re not we might not be struggling with porn, but we are struggling with sin. And to understand that, that that’s just to give our husband a little bit more grace, I think is powerful and important. And, again, Jen, I’m so so grateful. I think you’ve given some really wonderful insights, I want to summarize the last three things that you said, kind of practical steps is one, Jesus really does understand, he really does. So to be really, really honest, and share with him what’s going on in your heart. I’m a journaler, it’s really much easier for me to share the hardest emotions, when I’m just writing it out when I’m actually like putting my thoughts into words. So that might be something that people can find some solace in. The other thing is talk to your husband about who’s going to be safe to share your pain with. Yeah, that’s really important. And you mentioned before we were on the call, there’s a book called safe people.

38:53
Right, right, if I am Henry Cloud and John Townsend, and it really helpful in learning and they also have a book called boundaries. So I love that book. You know, it’s really figuring out how boundaries make you a safer person. And if you because you do need to advocate for your knees, but you need to advocate for them in a way that is not confrontational and adversarial. You know, but in that, okay, this is I need to feel safe in our marriage. And so what what are ways that we can agree on that we can both feel safe, where I would feel safer if you installed covenant eyes on you know, on the computer or but if but I understand that’s not gonna solve the problem. That is a you know, safety measure. But But addiction is about a root. So you still have to right? That’s right. This is about developing intimacy and going back and allowing God to heal those places that allow this addiction to take root so you know what I’m saying? So it’s always remembering. This is about this is a heart issue. and his heart is, is thick or broken, you know. And so we need God’s healing power to be involved in that and covenant eyes won’t bring that healing. Only God can. But but you know, figuring out like, what do I need to feel safe in this? How can I remain engaged in this marriage when I feel hurt? How can I keep walking toward light? Because porn addiction can be very confusing. It’s not you know, it’s like we as a society, we say Adultery is wrong. You know, like, yeah, that’s in the Bible. There’s nothing about specifically porn, like the word pornography is not in, in the Bible. So it kind of gets muddled in our heads to praying for clarity and that God would continue to reveal what it is. That is part of the solution.

40:50
Mm hmm. Yes, that is so good. Cool. Well, okay, so go to pure eyes, clean heart COMM For more information about Jen to follow her to reach out to her. She’s obviously got a very warm heart and very amazing. Yeah, amazing testimony and insights from that. So follow her there. I’m going to have the links to everything that we’ve talked about on the show notes. So you’re welcome to go to delight your marriage calm to find those. But Jen, seriously, from the bottom of my heart. Thank you so much for this conversation.

41:20
Yeah, it’s been awesome. I really appreciate you having having me back.

41:27
So grateful for Jen’s heart, aren’t you? I mean, it’s amazing when other people have gone through what you’re going through, and they can get to the other side and say, Man, there’s hope. It sucks right now. It is really, really bad season. But there is hope on the other side. And that’s what Jen actually ended the conversation with me. We chatted a little bit after. And she said, You know, I just, I’m so grateful that I can share hope with women in the midst of the pain because I was there. And I’m on the other side now. So I hope that that is what you’ve come out of this. Sharing the pain in keeping that hope, protect that hope. That’s what God wants for us. He is the God of hope has a talks about it believe that’s Romans 15. I was looking at it the other day, I’ll reference that that verse in the show notes. So in case I’m wrong, whatever the whatever the Scripture is, alright. Well, thanks so much for joining me. God bless you pray for you and your marriage. We’ll talk next Tuesday.

42:30
Thanks for listening. If you’ve been blessed by this, why not share it. Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion.

42:51
Hey, so next week, I’m going to be talking a solo show about how to find the love of your life. Yes, this is the strategy step by step secret. I think that really, God honors it’s just wisdom around how to find the love of your life. So obviously, if you’re married, you’ve already found that person. But if you’re not or you know, some single friends or maybe your kids or something, I’ve got just the wisdom that I think God affords in this life that you know, with his help we can employ so at least come in, listen, if you can. That’s going to be next Tuesday. God bless you. We’ll talk then

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Have you been a victim of sexual sin? Porn, infidelity, or even past sin prior to marriage can put us into a whirlwind of hurt and pain. Kay understands that heartache when she happened upon her husband’s porn addition 6 years into it. How did she make it through? How could her marriage survive such betrayal? Kay, a trained counselor, gives amazing insights and suggestions for the wife who is hurt and how to move through that hurt into healing. This episode may be the hope you’ve been grasping for.

Find out more about Kay at kaybruner.com
You’ll Discover:

• What it feels like in the midst of betrayal and how PTSD is very common in response to this.
• How women are often left behind in the process of healing from a sexual sin.
  • There’s a temptation to think, once the behavior has stopped or marriage counseling has been had, everything’s fine. But what about the wife who still has trouble sleeping, can’t trust her husband and is so fearful it could happen again.
• What is the first step after a sex addiction revelation?
  • You can’t do this alone, my dear wife.
• How do you move past your fears and imaginations of what he might be thinking?
• How do you separate yourself and your own self worth in the midst of betrayal?
• How this work is excruciating and it’s okay and important to acknowledge that.
• The difference between building behavioral trust and building emotional trust.
• How to have healthy sexuality after such pain.

Resources:

• Debunking the Myth of Forgive & Forget, Kay’s book about forgiveness and learning to trust after betrayal
• Steve Arterburn’s books:
  • Every Man’s Battle, to understand the experience of your husband around sexual sin
  • Every Heart Restored, to go through healing for the wife when sexual sin is revealed
• Where to find Christian Counselors/Therapists:
  • American Association of Christian Counselors website
  • Psychology Today website (when searching, you can select for Christian counselors/therapists in your zip code)
• John Gottman’s book 7 Principles For Making Marriages Work, about building emotional trust in marriage
• Henri Nouwen’s book Turn My Mourning into Dancing about how God uses the pain in our lives

Scripture/Quote:

• Ephesians 3:17b-19 “And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
• 1 Samuel 8:7b “It is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected Me as their king.”
• Ann Lambert “The difference between me and God, is God never thinks He’s me.”
• Richard Rohr, “When you’re out of control, that is suffering”

Tweetables:

• I thought we had a certain thing, and we didn’t.
• Until we hit a huge problem, we were not compelled to dig into the of our lives.
• There’s potential for goodness in the mess.
• When you are faced with the loss of your marriage, it’s traumatic.
• When you’re traumatized it’s so hard to make wise choices for yourself.
• I cannot trust someone unless they are trustworthy.
• Our sexuality is a deep, deep part of who we are.
• Women have been taught to be afraid of their sexuality.

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

Love,

Belah

—

Episodes come out Tuesday mornings. But, in case you forget…I love to subscribe with my phone so I never miss an episode. You can too:  

If you enjoyed this episode, would you add your review to iTunes (via your phone or computer)? It will encourage me & it will help others find the podcast easier. Find out how at delightyourmarriage.com/itunes Thank you!

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Hi there! Belah here. Today, I have with me Tony Ingrassia of powerofpurity.org. Tony had an incredibly challenging childhood and first years of marriage. You can hear in Part I the pain his wife and he endured. Now you can hear what happened through God’s grace to their marriage. What principle things God has taught Tony along the way.

Check out Part I at delightyourmarriage.com/73

You’ll Discover:

• How God transformed their marriage from brokenness and pain into a marriage of joy and passionate love.
• How to have sex God’s way.
• How Tony brought this message of sexual redemption into the prisons and what happened there.
• When we bring our brokenness to God He can do amazing things.

Books & Resources Mentioned:

• Stories, the Redemption of One Man’s Wounded Sexuality
• The Power of Purity
• God’s Healing Path
• The Power Of Purity Conference

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

Love,

Belah

—

Episodes come out Tuesday mornings. But, in case you forget…I love to subscribe with my phone so I never miss an episode. You can too:  

If you enjoyed this episode, would you add your review to iTunes (via your phone or computer)? It will encourage me & it will help others find the podcast easier. Find out how at delightyourmarriage.com/itunes Thank you!

Transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host, belah. Rose.

0:18
Hi, there. This is Bella, thank you so much for joining me today, I hope that you are doing well. And I know that we just had a holiday in the US. So those us listeners, I just want to say Happy Thanksgiving, I hope that it was a really good holiday. And as we enter the holiday season, I know that all we hear about is the really good things and the the fun and the warmth of family and getting together. But I know that a lot of times, holidays are hard because there’s hard things going on in our lives or hard things going on with our family or our spouses. And I just want to say that God hears you and he sees you and He knows your pain. And I just want to encourage you to run to Him with your hurt and your heart because he wants to carry it. And I think Tony today has a really good reminder of what God can do in our marriages. If we just trust Him and work his way and do things God’s way. And Tony’s got an amazing story. I don’t know if you heard part one yet. But if you didn’t go back and listen to his story, because you’ve got just just terrible things that happen even as a child to him. And and that informed what he brought into marriage. And then it led into lots of heartache for he and his wife when they were in marriage together. So it’s just a powerful story. But today is the second half today is we’re going to find out what happened, what happened to their marriage, how did it go? And what did God teach them in the midst. So Tony talks about doing sex God’s way he talks about redeeming the brokenness, I just think it’s a powerful interview. So I’m going to let us just dive in.

2:13
And I just, I just want to say, by the way, we’ve been married 32 years, and I am not kidding you. I am so deeply, madly, passionately in love with this woman. She is absolutely the most wonderful gift that God has ever given me in my life apart from God Himself. And we are absolutely on our honeymoon. We did it backwards. You’re supposed to start with your honeymoon, and then and then live your life. We live the life and we discovered our honeymoon along the way. And it’s so awesome who God is and what God can do. So I would just like to say to listeners out there that if you’re in a dark place, a Hard Place a challenging difficult place and in your heart, your life, your your past your story, your relationship, don’t give up, keep moving forward in God. And the Lord has a wonderful way of working in our hearts and lives and redeeming the brokenness of our lives. And that’s exactly what God wants to do. I like to think that God invites us into a what I call a working cooperation with him. And as we cooperate with God, and we let God do what he’s trying to do and accomplish in our hearts. He is very faithful. And he has a way of bringing dead things back to life. Yeah, praise God.

3:46
Yeah, amen. Oh, my gosh, that’s awesome. What an incredible story of healing and redemption that God wants to do in all of our lives and hearts. I love that. I want to ask you, you did talk about what your marriage looks like now. So I want to ask you, what are the chief three things that has been central to your marital success so far?

4:11
Well, that’s a good question three things? Well, absolutely. Without a doubt the the number one thing would be God. Yeah. You know, we believe that marriage is intended to be a three way street. husband, wife, and God. And if we did not have the Lord in our lives, I don’t. I have no doubt that our marriage would not have made it through. You know, God is the ultimate resource of life when we’re weak. God has strength when we when we are in darkness, God is alive. When we’re in bondage. God is freedom. When there’s death around us. God is alive when there’s torment around us. God is Peace. So God is the ultimate resource. And so we I give God the credit, God the glory. And I encourage people, you know, one of my main jobs as a pastor is to urge people toward God. And so no matter where you’re at, in your life, your situation, what’s going on how crazy it is, or upside down or how disoriented the situation is, or how overwhelming I urge you to move toward God. The more God comes into the equation, the better off you’re going to be. And the more access you’ll have to these resources of God, the peace of God, the wisdom of God, the healing of God, the redemption, the light, the, you know, the freedom of God. So, so God is absolutely the number one resource without a doubt. I think maybe a second resource would just be our love for one another. Even in the darkest of days, in the darkest of days, what I call the dark days of our marriage, and I’m using the word hate here, Bella, I hated my wife at times, I hated her. Because she was such a source of pain to me, I saw and she hated me, you know? Even when we hated each other, we still loved each other. Does that make sense?

6:39
Well, I’m thinking about it, do you? How how did that work?

6:43
I’m not sure how to put words to it. Other than Yeah, there was a deep abiding sense of love. I just I love this woman. I wanted it to work I. And really that that brings me to the third point that I want to mention. And it might seem kind of weird, but it’s what occurs to me. And that is just our own stubbornness. And what I mean by that is what we went through. I’m not sure, but I’m thinking that 1000 couples went through what we went through, I’m thinking 999, would have given up, they would have hit the eject button, and they would have got divorced. We are the one couple by God’s grace that made it through somehow. And I think there’s several different reasons for that. One is I think, because we love God, and we had an conviction that we weren’t supposed to get divorced. I think part of it is because we loved each other. I think a big part of it was our boys. We didn’t want to get divorced, because we believe that it would be better for our boys to grow up with the mom and dad in the home, you know. And a part of it was just our stubbornness. I didn’t want to lose, I didn’t want to give up. I just we couldn’t bring ourselves to give up. So. So we had a stick to itiveness. And I think that we get credit for that where that thing I was talking about earlier, where people give up too fast. You can’t give up too fast. You gotta you gotta hang in there. When the going gets tough. You got to you got to just see it through and do your best and not give up and give God a chance. Yeah. And if you do that God has a way of working things out.

8:40
Yeah, that’s awesome. Yes. And so So my next question is about sexual intimacy. Specifically, if you could give a tip or advice about intimacy that you wish someone let you in on earlier?

8:56
Well, maybe what I like to say, in my power purity conference, I mentioned I have these 23 sessions, and one of the sessions I do, session 10 is called love sex versus lust, sex. And these are two interesting words they both have four letters love and loss. They both start with an L. But they’re two radically opposing concepts of how to experience sexual intimacy. And for so many years in my life, without a doubt, the orientation of my sexual self was was one of lust. And that has to do with my story. You know, the pornography and the sexual abuse in my early sexual experience was very oriented in in a lustful way. Although I didn’t Stan that, you know, and later in the context of our marriage, my wife had difficulty responding to me. And part of that was because of her own issues that were unresolved, you know, with her past her rape, her abortion and all these things. But part of it had to do with the dynamics in our relationship. And my wife, like, I didn’t understand that when I would try to move toward her sexually and intimately. And when I would touch her, she would kind of resist against me. And I think rightfully so because she could intuitively sense that something is wrong with this, I believe belah that even in the context of marriage, the way a man moves toward his wife can be very inappropriate and sinful. And what I mean by that, for example, I know for a fact what a lot of what a lot of men do even Christian men, is they watch pornography for 234 hours for days at a time. And then when they approach their wife, they’re all lathered up and frenzied up with lust on the inside. And so the energy that they’re bringing to their wife, and I believe women are very intuitive. And I think Sherry could intuitively sense something is wrong with this, even though he’s my husband, the way he’s moving toward me, the way he touches me, it makes me feel dirty. It makes me feel like all those other guys who who used me there, she could intuitively sense this is an unloved thing. It’s a lust thing. And so in this session, I tried to help men understand this important distinction. And then what it means to shift your sexual orientation, from an orientation of lust to an orientation of love. Lust is something that takes lust is never satisfied. And lust is like, fire. You know, you hear about these huge brush fires out west, and you know, it’s burned 90,000 acres, you would think that fire, if it had a voice, it would say, after burning 90,000 acres, okay, that’s enough, I’ve had 90,000 acres, that’s enough, fire is never full, you see it once more, once more. And that’s what lust lust is like. So I try to help men understand what it means to shift your orientation from from lust, to love. And that’s something that I wish I could have figured out way, way, way earlier in the context of my marriage. And I would like to say that I think that’s something that’s so wonderful and beautiful, and rewarding. Now when when you begin to experience sex, that God way. It’s unbelievably wonderful and beautiful, and mysterious, and fulfilling and satisfying. And it’s love sex, it’s not less sex, and it’s about giving, it’s not about taking, it’s about sharing, something I learned is that the beauty is not in sex. The beauty is in people. And so

13:30
sexual intimacy provides the opportunity for me to be so close to my wife, this person that I love, and appreciate, and to be able to touch her and smell her and enjoy her and be present to her, and share with her and commune with her and connect with her, and to have intimacy with her. It’s it’s a wonderful, awesome thing. And that is so radically different than what we see in pornography and what lust has to offer us. It’s such a lie. It’s such a deception. God’s way, is life giving. It’s wonderful.

14:10
Yeah, well, I love that you’re talking about sex God’s way. And I just wonder if you might be able to clarify that a little bit. What does that mean?

14:19
Well, I’ll try to share a few thoughts. I think that most people if they knew how much God says about sex in the Bible, they might be shocked. The Bible has a lot to say. And God has a lot to say about sex. And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Because the designer of a product, you know, if you buy a product like a toaster, for example, it comes with a little instruction manual. And the manufacturer is saying, Hey, we made this product we designed So we know how it’s supposed to work. So if you follow the manufacturer’s instructions, you’re going to derive the greatest benefit from the product. Well, who is the manufacturer of human sexuality? Got it, got it mended sex. It’s his idea. It’s his invention. And so God gives us this instruction book. It’s called the Holy Bible. And God has all kinds of instructions about how to do sex the right way. And, and as we begin to understand sex God’s way, and begin to shift the orientation of our life. It’s amazing how our lives can be heal. And as I said, for so long, I did sex Tony’s way and it leads to death and disorientation and destruction and hurt and confusion, and pain. And I came to the point where I finally thought to myself, Okay, okay, Tony, you’ve done sex your way long enough and look at the results that’s been getting you. Maybe we should try sex God’s way. And in so doing, maybe I can’t get any worse results than I’ve been getting, you know. And as we pursued an understanding of God, and who God is, and what God says, we find, we find life and hope and healing and redemption. Maybe that could be illustrated. First example, the one scripture that I shared. In our interview from First Thessalonians chapter four, I’ll read it one more time, it’s God’s will, that you should be sanctified, that you should avoid sexual immorality that each of us should learn to control his own body in a way that’s holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen. See, Bella, this teaches me the God says that it’s possible to control your body and sex Tony’s way, I was controlled by my body, my body had authority over me, my body told me when it wanted an orgasm, and I was enslaved, and I literally obeyed my body. My body controlled me, but sex God’s way. God says, learn to control your body. And this is possible. And so that distinction, right there makes an incredible difference in how you’re going to experience your sexual self if you if you learn self control.

17:37
Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, I love that. Okay, well, so my question is due to the specific marriage that you’ve had, what opportunities have you had to serve or get to know God?

17:49
Okay, well, that’s a wonderful question. And I will say that be you know, through the context of our marriage and our dark days, and everything we went through, is we were coming out the other end, it was like a dark tunnel, but there’s light at the end of the tunnel, as we’re coming out, and God is healing and redeeming the deepest brokenness of our lives. Through a series of events, we came to believe that God wanted us to share our story with other people, because of these themes of brokenness in our lives. You know, there for a while, I thought we were freak shows that everybody else was normal. And we weren’t like freak shows. And we come to learn that these things are very, very common. Yes, that’s right. sexual brokenness is so common, you know, yeah. So we just believe that, that our story can help other people and inspire other people and urge other people toward God. So as we were coming through this, I began to share my story with men. And as I shared my story, I learned that men were hungry, and they wanted more, tell me more, because they had similar struggles. And so I began to share my story then it it’s some men’s breakfasts and men’s groups and Bible studies and God continue to open doors, I ended up writing three books on the topic of sexual purity and then developing the sexual purity conference, where we speak to people and try and we share our story. Our story is the centerpiece of the conference. And then we try to share principles on with people what it means to do sex God’s way, and how to bring your sexual self under the authority of God. And people can find a lot more than information at the website power purity.org. But I will share one other very interesting thing, an amazing thing that God did, and that is through a series of events. We were invited to come and do our purity conference. I’m at a prison in the state of Missouri northeast Correctional Center in Bowling Green, Missouri. And there’s 2400 inmates incarcerated there. It’s a man’s prison. And they tell me that over 60% of the men in that prison are incarcerated for sexual offenses. So that right there shows you how common the theme of sexual brokenness is, right? Oh, yeah. So when we went into this prison, and normally I do my conference in one day, but because of prison life, what the way they set it up is we went eight Sundays in a row, eight Sunday evenings in a row, and we did this conference, about 100 inmates attended. And it’s hard to convey Bella, what God did in those sessions, but it was just suffice to say, God showed up. It was very, very, very powerful. God touched a lot of these men very deeply. And we left at the end, it felt like a home run for God, it felt like an amazing experience. And we were rejoicing, we never thought we get to go into a prison, you know, do this ministry and to share our story. Well, so we thought we were done. Well, several weeks later, my phone rings. And it’s a high ranking official from the state of Missouri Jefferson City. And he says, Tony, we heard about your program, we heard about what happened in Bowling Green, the response of the inmates. And we want to know what you bring your program into every prison in the state of Missouri. Wow, there’s 20 days, because 22 prisons in the state 24, and two for women. So for about the past four or five years now, we’ve been going in and out of prisons, several times a year, presenting this ministry, and we’ve been working very heavily in the women’s prison, which has been amazing. And I can’t tell you how the themes of our story are so common to these women in prison. Virtually every single one of these women has been raped, or found sexual hurt and brokenness in their lives and stories. In fact, we’re going to the women’s prison this evening, we’re going to have minister. So that’s an amazing door that God is open. And we’re very, very grateful.

22:27
Yes. And like you said, it’s specifically because of what God brought you out of in your marriage. It’s just incredible how he works like this man, praise God. Yeah, it’s so good. It’s

22:38
one of the things I love about God that he he doesn’t waste our pain. He doesn’t want to waste our pain. And, you know, it reminds me the story of, of Joseph and his brothers at the end of Jack Genesis, you remember, they come to get the grain in Egypt and all that, and they realize that it’s Joseph, he’s still alive, we threw him in the pit. And Joseph says what you meant for evil. God meant for good, and the saving of many lives. And so evil, had intentions to destroy our lives, to destroy this 13 year old girl, and to destroy this boy who has been sexually abused and who found his father’s pornography evil says, I’m going to I’m going to destroy these people. I’m going to get in there and cause pain and hurt and destruction. But what what evil what what the devil meant for evil and destruction. God means for good and he turns that around. God does like this spiritual Judo thing. And he flips the doubt and God doesn’t waste our pain of will allow him to use our pain. And I say kudos to you Bella. Because I saw on your, on your website I looked at the section about and you have a little thing there that says my story Bella’s story, my man, my passion. For delight, your marriage was birthed out of a painful marital past. I suffered in a marriage it was full of strife, anger, deep hurt and sexual difficulty. But now by God’s grace, I am in a wonderfully live giving faith supported and mission enabling marriage. God’s hand in my journey has shown me that marriage affects everything I need to help others avoid or heal from the pain I too have experienced. So you know what we become felon? Yeah, we be calm, wounded healers. We are that scared wounded healers and at the best I say, You know what I’m doing. I’m limping toward heaven. loving toward heaven, but, but I’m sharing Jesus and I’m telling people, here’s what God did for me. Here’s what God did in mind. And if God helped us, maybe God can help you to

25:04
say amen. Oh, that’s so powerful Tony. It’s so so powerful Praise God. Amen. Well, let me ask you, oh, a book a book or resource that you would specifically recommend to the listeners? Well, tell me about yours if you could, I’m interested in Okay. Sure. Once you have,

25:25
well, again, if anybody’s interested, if they go to our website, power of purity.org, there’ll be more information there. There’s 23 sessions that I teach, everything is free, you can watch the sessions there. And I have three books. On the topic of sexual purity, the first one is the story. Much of the story I’ve shared with you in this interview is in book form only much more in the book. And it’s called Stories of redemption of one man’s wounded sexuality. And it’s the bad news and the good news, the story of how God is redeeming the brokenness of my own heart and life. And the SEC, the second book is called The Power of purity. And it’s I’ve identified what I believe are six common roots to the sexual brokenness that men struggle with in their lives. And I, I share with men how to bring these roots under the authority of Christ and to bring your sexual gift under the authority of God. And then there’s a companion workbook that goes with that book also. But I really have on my heart to mention, I want to mention another little booklet that I wrote recently. It’s called God’s healing path. And the subtitle is how to experience God’s deep healing in your heart and life. And it really goes along with this concept of understanding your story. If you intuitively sense that, that you have business to do with God and your past, that there’s unsettled things in your past maybe that you’ve never really dealt with. Most of us deal with these things, you know, how we deal with them, by not dealing with. And that’s not helpful. And so this little booklet invites a person into the story of their own life and helps them understand how maybe they’ve been dealing with the pain of their life and soul in unhealthy ways. And how to shift on to God’s healing path and file and cooperate with God and His redemptive intention and find God’s healing in a deeper way than you ever have before. And people can contact me for a copy of that booklet. I’m not I don’t think it’s on the power purity website, but it is, I believe, on our church website, which is outpost, das dash church.com, outpost, dash, church calm. And if anybody’s interested in that booklet, it’s available.

28:18
Okay, and I’ll have all the links and everything at the delight your marriage. Sorry, the delight your marriage website. So it just to make sure you’ve got the power purity book 23 sessions for free about the is that what is that called? On your website?

28:36
The sessions? Yes, just the power of purity conference,

28:42
power purity conference. Cool. That’s exciting. I’m excited to watch that and read your book as well. It’s really sounds wonderful. Okay, well, my last question for you is if you could go back to your first year of marriage, and sit yourself down, what is one piece of advice that you would give to you?

29:06
That’s a really good question. I like the question. I think. I hope it’s not spiritualizing it too much. But just the the first thing that that occurs to me is I would try to inform that 26 year old Tony, who, like I said, earlier, you know, how you look back at your life and you’re, you’re, you’re horrified by what you see, you know, like, who was that person? What was he thinking? Why were you doing the things you were doing? Why were you making the decisions you were making? And I see a man that that that makes me say it very autonomous man, a very independent And, man, a very rebellious man, a very controlling man. And I would some, try to encourage myself just to surrender to God. And that Tony God’s way is way, way better than your way. And instead of fighting God for so long and so hard, just surrender faster surrender to God give up, turn to God, yield to God, and let God do his thing in your heart and life and marriage. And it’s going to go way, way better.

30:41
Yeah. Praise God. That’s good. Awesome. Well, so you did mention a little bit. But just to wrap up, I want to make sure everyone knows how to connect with you online.

30:55
Okay, well, we have several websites, but probably the main website is the power of purity website. So if you just go to power of purity.org, and then there’s contact information there. If anybody wants to email or even call, if I can be helpful in any way, I I’m honored.

31:21
Awesome. Well, Tony, this has been absolutely wonderful. I’m so grateful for your story and all of your insights. And, and I love so much of what you said, especially the wounded healers that we all are striving to be following Jesus surrendering to Him. So thank you, thank you so much, Tony, Bella,

31:40
God bless you. Thank you.

31:46
Awesome, thank you so much, Tony, what a powerful message you shared. And I just want to encourage anyone who hasn’t gone to his website yet the power of purity.org, or I think it’s just power of purity.org. But he’s got some great resources, actually, the easiest way to get all of his resources is just to go to delight your marriage.com/ 74. And I’ve got all of his books linked up. And most of them are free, if not just $1 or so. So they’re really affordable. And it could be something that will really impact your life. So I just encourage you to go go for that. And and the next thing I want to just share is just a thank you for everyone who has been so supportive of the dy M podcast. You’re just an incredible, incredible group of people that I’ve been able to interact with here and there. And I just want to say thank you and God bless you and I this Thanksgiving. I’m so grateful for you and your stories and how God is sharing other stories with you through the dy M podcast encouraging you and I just, I’m so grateful to be able to do this work. So thank you for your support and your kindness. God bless you. I’m praying for you and I love you. Bye bye.

33:02
Thanks for listening. If you’ve been blessed by this, why not share it? Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Hi there! Belah here. Today is a solo show I made because I felt it was time that I share a piece of my mind about how sex relates to God. On this episode, I give out 10 points on how sex actually teaches us about God and what he tells us through scripture. I believe that sex is a metaphor to marriage, and it is vital between husbands and wives. Join me and open your minds so you may see and understand clearly how sex can teach us a lot about God. Have a blessed day!

Want to deepen intimacy? Looking to move past your barriers getting in the way? Sign up now for a FREE Strategy Session with Belah to see if you’re a good fit for 1:1 Coaching directly with Belah! Email belah@delightyourmarriage.com before July 31, 2015!

Scripture/Quote:

• When the LORD began to speak through Hosea, the LORD said to him, “Go, marry a promiscuous woman and have children with her, for like an adulterous wife this land is guilty of unfaithfulness to the LORD.” Hosea 1:2
• And the LORD said to Moses: “You are going to rest with your ancestors, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. Deuteronomy 31:16
• Yet they would not listen to their judges but prostituted themselves to other gods and worshiped them. They quickly turned from the ways of their ancestors, who had been obedient to the LORD’s commands. Judges 2:17
• “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” Matthew 19:4-6
• Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. Ephesians 5:25
• “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” Ephesians 5:31
• But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 1 Corinthians 7:9
• An unfriendly person pursues selfish ends and against all sound judgment starts quarrels. Proverbs 18:1
• We love because he first loved us. 1 John 4:19

You’ll Discover:

• The 10 ways sex teaches us about God—point by point!
• Some amazing scriptures from the Bible and how it translates to the essence of sex in every marriage
• How we should accept our spouses for who and what they are
• How sex should be a lifelong commitment

Tweetables:

• God made sex. It was his before the world’s.
• We have the choice to say, “I chose you. And I am not giving up on you.”
• We are not perfect. We cannot be. But God does not give up on us.
• God’s love encompasses sexual love.
• The best sex is without fear—no fear of judgment, rejection, condemnation, criticism.

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

Love,

Belah

—

Episodes come out Tuesday & Thursday mornings. But, in case you forget…I love to subscribe with my phone so I never miss an episode. You can too:

If you enjoyed this episode, would you add your review to iTunes (via your phone or computer)? It will encourage me & it will help others find the podcast easier. Find out how at delightyourmarriage.com/itunes Thank you!

Transcript:

• Does your intimate relationship seem utterly and necessarily separate from your relationship with God?
• Maybe you have gotten to a place where you’re ok with that understanding, but you wouldn’t say it out loud?
• Wherever you’re starting, my goal for you to come away with intrigue.
  • I’d like you to desire deeper revelation for God’s holy design for sex.
  • I want to whet your appetite to the glory and holiness of sexual intimacy.
• 1. It’s the Bible’s metaphor not mine!
  • When approaching the topic of sex through God’s lens, its so easy to feel our thoughts are unenlightened and immature on this vital theme running throughout our lives.
  • I’m sure you and I both realize the world’s infatuation on this topic. But let us not forget that God made sex. It was His first. So we need His help in allowing us to understand sex from His perspective.
  • Here are just the beginning of the many ways the Bible speaks about marital sex as a metaphor for God’s relationship with His people
    • When the LORD began to speak through Hosea, the LORD said to him, “Go, marry a promiscuous woman and have children with her, for like an adulterous wife this land is guilty of unfaithfulness to the LORD.” Hosea 1:2
    • And the LORD said to Moses: “You are going to rest with your ancestors, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. Deut 31:16
    • And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but they went a whoring after other gods, and bowed themselves unto them: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; but they did not so. Judges 2:17
• 2. Jesus says sex is vital.
  • Lets look at what Jesus says about sex: “And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh’? “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” Matt 19:4-6
  • Firstly, wow. Did you read what I just did? Jesus said God made them male and female for this reason they should wed and become one flesh. What!? So, Jesus said: God made two different kinds of humans: male and female. And because He made them different they should: 1) leave all their family/past/comfort zone, 2) get married, and 3) have sex.
  • Why would he say this? Another place this phrase comes up, when Paul says, “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her…‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh’” Ephesians 5:25 & 31 This shows a bit more of God’s heart for sex. There is a sanctification that goes on in the process of lovemaking.
• 3. Marriage Teaches God’s Love
  • If you’ve ever been married you know that the day after the fantastical wedding celebration, real life sets in. And it’s not always a fairytale. You begin to understand that person you fell in love with leaves dishes in the sink for you to clean. He has weaknesses that annoy you. He may even have selfishness that rears it’s ugly head at the moment of your desperate need.
  • Because marriage is intimate. You become the closest person to your husband. The longer you are together, the more you find out who they really are. And you love them anyway. You choose to love even when you don’t like them. And if you choose to do that, you may have the opportunity to see more. He may trust you enough to let you closer. A lot of that “more” you see, however is dark and bad. He might let you in on sin that shreds your innocent, doe-eyes and little-girl ideals. It’s unfair and wrong and hurtful. But, you have a great opportunity: to forgive and say “I chose you and I am not giving up on you.”
  • Tears are welling in my eyes as I see God’s heart for us in that that picture of marriage. We are not perfect. We cannot be. In marriage or elsewhere. But God does not give up on us. He knows us. And He loves us so much, even when what we are actively doing pierces his heart.
  • In marriage we see what God does for us everyday. And His love is deeper than ours. His love is truer than ours. His love is more vulnerable than ours. And we get an opportunity to love the way He loves us in our marriage, every single day.
• 4. Why does God want us to be totally intimate with our mate?
  • Honesty is the best policy. Yes it is. And sex in marriage is honest. Sex is such a metaphor for marriage in general. When we strip down the layers that cover who we really are, our spouse sees it. He sees it all. In marriage you really can’t hide who you are. To be blunt, in a single night or short-lived relationships, you can hide. But not in marriage. You can only pretend for so long until either you A) open up (which is what I’m rooting for!) or B) you allow fear to swallow you and force you to run away (the real reason for divorce and sexless marriages, I think).
  • When you’re regularly making love, you’re exposed to who this person really is. Your own flaws are exposed (and I’m not talking about your belly giggle). You and I both know everything follows us into the bedroom: our impatience, our selfishness, our habit of distraction, our insecurities…even our thoughts and food choices that day.
  • When we have someone who we trust that loves us that much, ask us to make a different choice in our thoughts and actions, then we feel empowered and encouraged. But when we (or they) are hiding, and keeping themselves from us, that needed trust is eroded. The platform that should be used to give loving help and support in making each other more holy, is instead a platform that induces great hurt and sorrow.
• 5. God’s love encompasses sexual love
  • Though our society says differently, sexual love is not necessary. You are complete even if you don’t have and never have sexual love in your life. How do I know? Paul was fully satisfied in God’s love and was able to do amazing things to which we are still marveling thousands of years later. (Not to mention Jesus…) The truth is, God’s love encompasses every kind of love. God’s love is enough for the single person to not sin and still feel fully content.
  • But, Paul advises us not to burn with passion. If you can’t feel fulfilled without physical sexual love, then get married (1 Cor 7:9). Which is a sign to those who are married: your husband chose not to live without sexual love (keep that in mind!). Paul is very aware marrieds need to be making love consistently. Interesting that he doesn’t say “since I can be sinless and chaste, you should be too”. No. He says “know yourself. If you cannot live this life without sex, get married so it can be a great part of your life and support your work for the kingdom!”
• 6. Sex needs to be in a lifelong commitment, aka marriage.
  • Our society says you can have great love and sex without commitment, but I disagree. Maybe you can have a seemingly healthy relationship with all the perks of marriage, but none of the commitment. But the issue is fear. There is either fear of being known, a calloused heart unwilling to be known, or an unconfirmed trust that the other person will be forever faithful.
  • A partnership without a lifelong vow doesn’t have the safety to let down the guards and be known. The guards stay up and your heart becomes hard and isolated. The Bible says, “Whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire; he breaks out against all sound judgment” (Proverbs 18:1). Being known is God’s plan for us. Letting the light in, confessing our sins to one another, iron sharpening iron…all is a process of becoming more like God.
• 7.  Communing regularly is vital.
  • You can’t have sex once and decide that you know everything about your mate. It’s a process. It’s a gradual unveiling of that person’s heart and body. Sex is not the same every time. There are new ideas, ways of expressing sensuality, positions, ways of touch to make your husband feel deeply loved. In the same way, we cannot expect a healthy vibrant relationship with the Lord unless we are intentional to seek out an encounter with Him. I mean: go to church, read the Word, journal prayers to Him, pray while you’re walking to work, enjoy His beauty reflected in nature… Have a full relationship with your Father in heaven.
• 8. Understanding is important.
  • You need to seek out some God-given truths. It is important to understand your mate. No matter how in love you two are, there are some very real differences that you should understand. Men think about sex differently than women. Obviously, bodies are different. And the particularities of pleasure is unique to men and women. This is my passion, to teach women the particularities of their husband that is honored and enjoyed in marital intimacy. We also need to be taught about the truths of God. If you love Him, you’ll seek out what He is like. You’ll read what is God’s character all about. You’ll be taught how He wants to be worshipped and deserves our honor and love. How God cannot look at sin. How He is jealous for His bride.
• 9. Sex shows us God’s Love.
  • Sex is best in marriage. Because the best sex is without fear. No fear of judgment, rejection, condemnation, and criticism. Perfect love casts out all fear (1 John 4:18). Making love is best when both parties want to make the other person most delighted, most honored, most desired, and feel most loved.
  • As you become more and more loved and trusting of your mate (something I continue to learn through every intimate experience), you begin to tap into the greatness of love God has for them. When you tap into that, you begin to tap into the greatness of love He has for you. God cares that much and more for your mate, therefore He loves you that much and more.
• 10. Sex is a profound mystery, but I am talking about Christ and the church.
  • This article may not make much sense intellectually; the good news is, we’re not alone. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. Eph 5:31-32
  • At least we’re not alone. I believe we can see a part and believe God will show us more. We haven’t arrived.
  • But, just because we can’t understand it intellectually, we can trust that God created sex, that He wants it in your marriage, and that it’s a beautiful, true, holy example of God’s love towards us.

Transcript

0:02
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast. This show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs, and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host belah rose.

0:18
Hey there, and welcome back. This is belah rose. And I want to just welcome you to the delight your marriage podcast. If you have tuned in before, you know that a show comes out every Tuesday and Thursday, where I talked to wives and intimacy experts on what it takes to have a fulfilling and wonderful marriage. So if you would like to deepen your intimacy, or work through those pesky reservations that are keeping you from feeling free and confident, I have something very exciting to tell you about. I am announcing my intimacy coaching program, I have just a few spots left open to any wife interested. So please email me at belah at delight your marriage.com in order to have a 20 minute free strategy session to see if we’re a good fit. Again, that’s Bella spelled B E L A H at delight your marriage.com email me as soon as possible because this offer is closing July 31. I’m looking forward to walking this journey with you. Okay, now let’s dive into the topic. 10 ways sex teaches us about God. Now my whole goal is to get you interested and intrigued and just kind of start a conversation between you and God about what this whole sex thing is about. Because I think he’s got so much to teach us about sex, and what it means in our marriage and what it means in our life. So I give, you know, rapidfire 10 things, but there is just so much more I could say there’s so much more that God has packed in to this wonderful gift of sex. But let’s dive in to the 10 things that I believe God teaches us through the act of sex.

2:24
Does your intimate relationship seem utterly unnecessarily separate from your relationship with God? Maybe you’ve gotten to a place where you’re okay with that understanding, but you wouldn’t say it out loud. Or maybe you’re just completely not able to even wrap your head around it. And I want to talk to each of you listening, wherever you’re coming from. Basically, my goal for you is to come away with intrigue. See, I’d like you to desire deeper revelation for God’s holy design for sex. And I want to whet your appetite to the glory and the holiness of sexual intimacy. Now, number one, it’s the Bible’s metaphor, not mine. Okay? I mean, when approaching the topic of sex through God’s lens. For all of us, it’s so easy to feel that our thoughts are unenlightened, and even immature, on this vital theme running through our lives. I’m sure that you and I both realize the world is infatuated. On the topic of sex, right? It’s constant. It’s the thing you know, Sex sells, and you’ve got all this other garbage out there because sex is so important in the way God set up this world. And so I want to understand that a little bit more, because we need to not forget that God made sex. It was his before it was the world’s right. He’s the one that designed it. He’s the one that made Adam and Eve exactly how we made them with all the genitalia that he made, and said it was very good. Okay. So in order to understand sex, the way that God made it, we need his help to help us understand sex from his perspective. And here’s just the beginning of the many ways the Bible speaks about marital sex as a metaphor for God’s relationship with his people. I’m just going to kind of read through a couple, just three examples. But in Hosea one, two, this is basically the whole point of Hosea is this verse it says, When the Lord began to speak through Hosea, the Lord said to him, Go marry a promiscuous woman and have children with her. For like an adulterous wife. This land is guilty of unfaithfulness to the Lord. Wow. Okay, let’s look at Deuteronomy 3116. And the Lord said to Moses, you are going to rest with your ancestors. And these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods in the land layer entering, and they will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. It’s powerful. And the last one I want to just touch on is judges to 17. And yet they would not hearken unto the judges, but they went away, whoring after other gods and bowed themselves unto them, they turn quickly out of the way, which their fathers walked in obeying the commandments of the Lord, but they did not do so. So yeah, you can tell that God is really serious about our relationship with Him. And though, I think is just amazing to think about, you know, the sexual bond between a husband and wife is so fiery, it’s so passionate. And it’s supposed to be that way, we’re supposed to be incredibly jealous, if, you know, infidelity happens, and because that’s what God shows us about sex just a little bit. So let’s talk about number two. what Jesus says about sex. Number two, he says, sex is vital. And that’s so interesting, because Jesus, of course, was not married. Right? He did not have that experience to say how important sex is he chose to be celibate, for the glory of God. He talks about that in Matthew 19, in another area, but I want to specifically talk about what he says.

6:36
Matthew 19, four through six, he says, Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh? What therefore, God has joined together, let no man separate. So firstly, wow. I mean, if you just listen to what I read, I mean, it’s bizarre, isn’t it? Jesus said, God made them male and female. And he specifically says, For this reason, they should wed, they should get married, and become one flesh. So Jesus is saying, God made two different kinds of humans, male and female. And because he made them different, they should, number one, leave all of their family, their past their comfort zone. Number two, get married. And number three, have sex. It’s just an kind of unimaginable statement that that is what Jesus said. Now, I want to ask you to think through why would he say this? Why would he say sex is so vital that it’s, it’s in our very core as humans? Well, another phrase that another time that this phrase comes up in the Bible is when Paul talks about it, he talks about in Ephesians five, verse 25. And also I’m going to read through verse 31. It says, Husbands love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her. And then looking again at verse 34, or 31 says, For this reason, a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh. So to me, this shows a bit more of what God’s heart is for sex. That sanctification process that goes on in the process of lovemaking. We’re going to talk more about this, but let me go to point three I wanted to make, marriage teaches us God’s love. Okay, so if you have ever married, you know that the day after the fantastical wedding celebration, real life sets in. And it’s not a fairy tale, you begin to understand that the person you fell in love with leaves dishes in the sink that just for you to clean them, you know, he lives on purpose. And he has weaknesses that may annoy you and probably do. He may even have selfishness that rears its ugly head at the moment of your desperate need. Because marriage is intimate, you become the closest person to your husband. The longer you’re together, the more you find out who they really are. And you love them anyway. You choose to love even when you don’t like them. And if you choose to do that, you may have the opportunity to see more of who they are. He may trust you enough to let you closer A lot of the more that you see, however, is dark and bad. He might let you in on sin that shreds your innocent doe eyes and little girl ideals. It’s unfair and wrong and hurtful. But you and I have the great opportunity to forgive our spouse and say, I chose you. And I am not giving up on you. When I wrote this, the first time, tears literally were welling up in my eyes. As I began to see God’s heart for us in that picture of marriage, we are not perfect, we cannot be in marriage or in any other place. But God does not give up on us. He knows us. He loves us, even when what we are actively doing pierces his heart. So in marriage, we see what God does for us every day. And his love is deeper than ours. And his love is truer than ours. His love is more vulnerable than ours. And we get an opportunity to love the way that he loves us in our marriage every single day. So let’s move to point four I want to make is, why does God want us to be totally intimate with our mates? Let’s dive into that.

11:30
See, honesty is the best policy. And it is in marriage as well. And sex is honest. Sex is such a metaphor for marriage in general. You know, when we strip down the layers that cover who we really are, our spouse sees it. He sees it all. In marriage, you really can’t hide who you are to be blunt. In a single night, or a short lived relationships, you can hide. But not in marriage, you can’t hide. You can only pretend for so long until either a you open up, which is what I’m rooting for. Or be you allow fear to swallow you and force you to run away, which I think is the real reason for divorce and sexless marriages actually. But when you’re regularly making love, you’re exposed to who this person really is. Your own flaws are exposed. And I’m not talking about your belly jiggle. Alright, you and I both know that everything follows us into the bedroom, our impatience, our selfishness, our habit of distraction, our insecurities, even our thoughts and food choices that day, follow us into the bedroom. So when you are son, so in we have someone who we trust that loves us that much. And then that person asks us to make a different choice in our thoughts and our actions. That is the opportunity we have to feel empowered and encouraged that when we are there are they are hiding and keeping themselves from us. That trust that’s supposed to help us get better, is actually eroded. And the platform of marriage that should be used to give loving help and support in making each other more holy. It’s instead of platform that creates great hurt and sorrow. So my fifth point is, God’s love encompasses sexual love. Now, you may have heard me talk about this before, but our society says sexual love is necessary. But the truth is you are a complete person, even if you don’t have that sexual love. How do I know Paul, he was fully satisfied in God’s love, as and he was able to do amazing things which were still marveling about 1000s of years later, not to mention Jesus, John the Baptist, many of the disciples many of the saints throughout the centuries. And even now, the truth is God’s love encompasses every kind of love. God’s love is enough for the single person to be single and not sin and still feel fully content. But Paul advises us not to burn with passion. He basically says if you can’t feel fulfilled without sexual love, then get married. That’s in First Corinthians seven nine, which is a sign to those who are married, your husband chose not to live without sexual love. This is important. Paul is very aware that married people need to be making love consistently. And it’s interesting that he does not say, you know, since I can be sinless and chaste, you should be too. He doesn’t say that he says Know yourself. If you cannot live this life without sex, go ahead and get married and hurry up about it. Because this is supposed to be a great support for your work for the kingdom. And that’s basically what I believe that that Paul’s saying he’s all about the kingdom work. And so if if burning with passion is getting in the way, get married, right? Okay, so let’s, let’s get to point six. Sex needs to be in a lot lifelong commitment, also known as marriage. So our society says that you can have great love and sex without commitment. But I and of course the Bible disagrees. Maybe you can have a seemingly healthy relationship with all the perks of marriage, but none of the commitment. But here’s the issue, I think is the issue is fear. There is either fear of being known a calloused heart, unwilling to be known, or an unconfirmed trust that the other person will be forever faithful.

16:08
See, a partnership without a lifelong vow doesn’t have the safety, to let down the guards and be truly fully known. And when you get to the place of being truly fully known, then you have that opportunity to do the iron sharpening iron. When you really let down your guards and be vulnerable insects and in every part of your marriage when you’re truly intimate, then, then gently and kindly iron can sharpen iron, and you can make each other better for the glory of God. But you got to let yourself be known. If the guards stay up, your heart becomes isolated and hard. And the Bible says whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire. He breaks out against all sound judgment, Proverbs 18. One being known is God’s plan for us, letting the light in confessing our sins to one another iron, sharpening iron, all of this is a process of being more like God. And you can see how that mirrors our relationship with the Lord does it not? Number seven, communing regularly is vital. You can’t have sex one time and decide that you know everything about your spouse. It’s a process. It’s a gradual unveiling of the person’s heart and body. Sex is not the same every time. There are new ideas, new ways of expressing sensuality positions, ways of touch, to make your husband feel deeply loved, to make yourself feel deeply loved. I mean, there’s so many variety in the sexual experience. And in the same way, we cannot expect a healthy, vibrant relationship with the Lord unless we are intentional to seek out and encounter with him. So that means going to church reading the Bible journaling, prayers to him, praying while you’re at work, enjoying his beauty reflected in nature. I mean, there’s just so many ways of experiencing the love of God. So have a full relationship with your father in heaven. That’s how I think sex teaches us about God in that way. Alright, number eight. You need to seek out some god given truths, it is important to understand your mate. No matter how in love you too are, there are some real differences that you should understand. Men think about sex differently than women. Obviously bodies are different. The particularities of pleasure is unique to men and women. And this is my passion to teach women, the particularities of their husband that is honored and enjoyed in marital intimacy. We also need to be taught about the truth of God. If you love him, you’ll seek out what he’s like. You’ll read what God’s character is all about. He’ll be taught how he wants to be worshipped and deserves our honor and love how God cannot look at sin. How he is jealous for his bride. You’ll discover this if you commit to being on a path of discovering what God wants. Understanding is very important. And then number nine I want to talk about sex shows us God’s love. So sex is best in marriage because the best sex is without fear. No fear of judgment, rejection, condemnation, criticism. Perfect love casts out all fear. It says in First John 419 So making love is best when both parties want to make the other person most delighted, most honored, most desired and most loved. As you become more and more loved and trusting of your mate Something I continue to learn through every intimate experience, as we all should be, you begin to tap into the greatness of God’s love that He has for them. And when you tap into the greatness that God has for them, you also tap into the greatness that God has for you. Because God cares that much, and so much more for your mate. And therefore he cares about you that much, and so much more. My last point is number 10. Sex is a profound mystery. But I’m talking about Christ and the church. And that’s Paul’s, that’s, that’s Paul’s verbiage there but, right Ephesians 531 says, For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery. But I’m talking about Christ and the church.

21:00
I believe that we can see a part. And I believe that God will show us more. We haven’t arrived yet. But just because we can’t understand it totally intellectually, we can trust that God created sex, and that he wants it in your marriage, and that it’s a beautiful, true Holy example of God’s love towards us. So I wonder if I gave you a little bit of intrigue gave you a little bit of something to pique your interest? I hope so. It’s just awesome. How God teaches us through everything about who he is, and especially how important sex is. Yeah, it’s just amazing. So if you have not yet emailed me for the free strategy session, go to your email and type in belah, B E L A H at delight your marriage.com and I will get back to you as soon as I can. I’m so excited to begin working directly with you on your intimacy goals. So this is going to be fun and challenging. But it could be one of the best things that you’ve ever done by God’s grace. Okay, well, God bless you. Thank you so much for tuning in today. And may God just bless your intimacy. Bless what is going on in your heart in your life today. Amen. God bless you. We’ll talk soon. Bye.

22:30
Thanks for joining. If you’ve been inspired by the show, would you help spread the word? If you take a moment to review and subscribe others can find us more easily. Find out how to delight your marriage.com forward slash iTunes. Until next time, live with love, wisdom impassion

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Hi there! Belah here. Today, I have with me Wanda Collins of Christian Marriage Today, and she talks about her struggles as a wife in the early stages of their marriage. On this episode, she tackles the sensitive issue of infidelity and how she dealt with the pain brought about by her personal experience with it. She tells us how God is essential in any marriage, especially when faced with circumstances that don’t always seem to be pleasant. She hands out tips to anyone who has gone through infidelity issues in their marriage and to those who haven’t but might be scared to go through the same. It’s so powerful how Wanda uses the scripture and God’s Word to relate on how she reacted when she found out; and it’s so inspiring and encouraging to hear her talk about the strength she had, which wasn’t her own, but that of our Lord.

Scripture/Quote:

• But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.   2 Corinthians 12:9
• And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28
• We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 2 Corinthians 10:5
• Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it. Proverbs 4:23
• Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will. Romans 12:2
• A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. Luke 6:45

You’ll Discover:

• How Wanda had become withdrawn from her husband in the beginning of their marriage, and the reason behind her actions
• How she reacted to learning about the infidelity from her own husband
• What kept her going and holding on to the marriage, even when the situations have proven to be difficult
• Her tips and advice for wives embattled with being emotionally detached from their husbands and those going through a crisis following an affair
• How she views LOVE—what it is and how it should be practiced.

Books & Resources Mentioned:

The Book of Hosea from the Bible

Tweetables:

• Going into marriage, majority of us have our own expectations. Most of those expectations are built on an unrealistic idea of what marriage is.
• I realized that what he did was his choice. It was not a reflection of who I was as a person.
• In marriage, there is no contingency clause. It’s a covenant.
• People say time heals. No, God heals.
• God is the healer and lover of our souls, and if we would just depend on him, he can get us through—even in infidelity.
• Love is not a feeling; it’s not anything you fall in and out of. It’s an action word. It’s something that you do.
• We pray when things are bad, or when we want something. We have to get into the habit of laying out everything to God.

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

Love,

Belah

—

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Trascript

0:00
to light your marriage episode 42

0:04
Welcome to the delight your marriage podcast, the show where you hear from amazing and inspiring wives sharing their struggles, triumphs and advice for this journey called marriage. Here’s your host belah. Rose.

0:21
Hi, my dear, welcome. This is Bella, thank you for taking the time to listen in today. I’ve got a great show for you lined up. So I want to jump into that. Before I do though. Have you registered for the webinar? Yes, I’m talking to you. Have you registered for the webinar, it’s super easy, go to delight your marriage.com/webinar Here’s the deal. It is free for a limited time. So I want to make sure that you get it free. So come on live. If you’re can’t make it on June 30. At 8pm Eastern Standard Time, it’s still going to be available for two weeks for free. That’s it. And then it turns into a you know a sizable investment to view it. But it’s how to make him wild for you the five secrets to love and passion in God’s plan. I really hope that you get a chance to be there. Do it now delight your marriage.com/webinar you can do it while you’re listening to the rest of this. But please, I would love to see you there. Be there. Okay, so Wanda is actually Wanda Collins, she’s got a story that you know, I think that’s the thing God does is He uses our hardest, most difficult challenging experiences as our life to help us help others. So when you find someone that’s really gone through it in a certain area, oh man, they can support someone else like no other. So Wanda is not not unlike this. You’re going to hear her story that it was not all roses for she and her husband. You’re going to see that they went through some really challenging things and God has brought them through and made her stronger. You can hear her faith is really amazing goddess stuns. Okay, well welcome back to let your marriage listener I am really thrilled because today I have Miss Wanda on Wanda, how are you today? I

2:30
am wonderful. Thanks for having me.

2:34
Absolutely. Well. I’m so excited to have you on and I would love for you to go ahead and introduce yourself a little bit about your family and what your day to day life looks like.

2:44
Oh, boy. Okay. My name is Wanda Collins and I am the creator of Christian mares today.com. I’m married to my wonderful husband, Michael Collins. And we have two adult children. Hmm, 27 and 24. So we almost empty nesters. My oldest, my youngest son just moved out of the house. Whoo. Yeah. April. And so my oldest son who had moved out moved back in. He decided he wanted to go back to school, which is a good thing we’ve been okay him to do that. So, yeah, almost had an emptiness. But we don’t. But here so we’re looking forward to that. Yes, I’m at home every day. Michael works diligently each day outside of the home. And I’m here each day doing ministry related things. Working with Christian marriage today.com I just recently finished working on a completing a 21 day marriage counseling program. And now my days had been filled doing that I’m also you know, updating things on the website answering questions, that type of thing. And then I also do a lot of ministry things with our church. Really active there. We are both licensed and ordained ministers. There’s a lot that goes on each day. And then on top of that, oh of course have my daily wifely duties that I have to attend to like wash clothes and cooking food and that type of thing. So my day is pretty filled.

4:28
Yes No It sounds like it I think it’s always funny when we have this this mentality of stay at home extra what a you know like a stay at home mom stay at home this stay at home that no it’s more of a work from home no matter what. Like, you’re not you’re not just hanging out. Well, that’s great. Well, tell us a little bit about your and Michael’s personalities if you would.

4:53
Okay, Michael and I are as a lot of couples I believe are opposites of each other. Okay are like in many ways, but anyways, we are different. We’re alike, because we are both located individuals. And we’re easy to please, it doesn’t take much to please us. We don’t require a lot. And we’re, you know, low key. However, he’s lower key than I am.

5:20
Oh, yes. So

5:21
he’s just really always even tempered. And, you know, it takes a lot to upset him. And he’s just a real polite gentleman, very compassionate, always concerned about everybody. And, you know, wanting everybody to be happy. And just a really, really nice guy. He’s originally from Georgia. So he is a homegrown southern boy. And I on the other hand, and from the north, and so while I feel shy by nature, I can also be very loud. In my house growing up, we yelled a lot, not argued. But we just talk loud. We were just like, Oh, yeah. And so when I married Michael, and we’re just talking, he’s like, Why are you yelling at me? Oh, gosh, I’m not yelling. I’m

6:12
just. Yeah. Yeah.

6:17
So I can be really loud. And then I’m the real. I’m the one that I would say, more in your face type of person. I’m more apt to tell you what I think with Michael won’t, and perhaps sometimes I shouldn’t. So we’re kind of opposites in that regard. But it works out well.

6:40
Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s totally and you know, this whole podcast is really about inspiring and encouraging wives and wholehearted intimacy. And I’d love to hear if you had a specific scripture or a quote that has meant a lot to you in your marriage over the years. A scripture

6:56
just my favorite scripture, are you sure? Sure. Yep.

7:02
May or maybe one that you know, was relevant to your marriage at some point, or even now? Okay. Probably

7:10
two of them. Second Corinthians 12. Nine, that talks about his grace being sufficient, and his strength to be made perfect in our weakness. Because, yeah, oftentimes, because of my personality that I just described to you sometimes being this, I’m often very independent. And sometimes I feel as though I have to be the strong one. And I have to put on a strong face. And I have to handle everything and take care of everything. And that scripture just reminds me that, hey, it’s only in your weakness that he can show Himself strong. So yeah, if you’re going to be independent, and you think you can handle everything, then there’s no reason for him to show up.

7:54
Right? Right. Isn’t that right? You’ve got to

7:57
show yourself weak in order for him to show yourself strong. So that scripture has really been pivotal for me, and also Romans 828. And we know that all things work together for the good of those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose. Because sometimes I think, as a wife, and as wives, we get stressed out, concerned that things aren’t going to work out exactly the way that we want them to. And our husbands are making bad decisions. And you know, what’s going on with the kids and basically, this image that we have in our minds, it’s not playing out. And so that Scripture is a reminder to me that whatever decision my husband makes, if it’s a bad one, whatever my kids are doing, whatever’s going on in my life, good, bad, ugly or indifferent. God use that for my good. He can turn anything around and work it out for my good. So there’s no need to stress about it. Just chill, relax. Yeah, got you and he can work it out for your

8:58
good. And this is brilliant one. I just love the both of these verses. I wanted to go piggyback on what you said, in the first one, Second Corinthians 12, nine, this will all be linked up in the show notes just for the listener. But I wanted to mention what you specifically said, his strength being made perfect in our weakness, and how you said, but if we act like we’ve got it all together, then God doesn’t have that opportunity to move and be the one that saves the day in a sense, is that exactly. Is that kind of how you how you see that? Oh, yeah, Scripture.

9:30
Exactly. Exactly. And oftentimes, we we do that because we forget that we’ve got help in the form of Jesus. And we feel like we’ve got to do all of this on our own. And as long as we have our hands on it, there’s no room for him to do what only He can do.

9:49
Amen. Yeah, I really, really love that. So yeah, these are really good memory verses for anyone listening because both of those are wonderful. Well, and I Yeah, I love that. Okay, so let’s go ahead. And this might even have something to do with the story that you are going to share. But basically, we like, testimonies are very important stories of what God has done in our lives stories of where even we were refined in the fire. Give us hope, when we start to hear someone else’s story, and then are like, we start to realize that, wow, this is what the colons have gone through, and they were able to make it, you know, this, we can apply to our own life. So I’d love for you to share a story of a difficult season or struggle that you had in your marriage. Oh, sure.

10:35
No, I think the funny thing, Bella, is that I think if you’ve got all of the marry with married people together, yeah. And they all told a story, everyone would have the same or similar story. videos I do, because I think all of us experienced similar things that the Bible says there’s nothing new under the sun. So yeah, I think all the stories are similar. They just have different characters in them. Oh, sure. For me, for a very long time, in my marriage, I felt as though I’ve married the wrong person. And I hear that a lot from other women. I hear it on Facebook, I hear it in email. So I know that a lot of other women and men feel the same way that he married the wrong person. So for a long time, that was a struggle for me, you know, I felt like I made a mistake. And the crazy thing about it is prior to us getting married, the Lord had shown me if anybody’s been on our website and read the story of how we met, the Lord woke me up in the middle of the night and told me what month I was going to meet my husband. And even though I met Michael in the month that God said I was going to meet when things started to go, you know, crazy, and they weren’t, things weren’t looking the way I thought they should look, I thought I married the wrong person, I made a mistake. And that tormented me for years. And it made me so discontent in my marriage and dissatisfied with him. And it caused me to change the way I treated him. And for a long time, he felt like I didn’t like him. And guess what? I didn’t. I didn’t like my husband. You know, I’m like, Who is this that I’m married, I’ve made a mistake. And so that, I think, was the biggest struggle for me in my marriage for many years is thinking that I married the wrong person. Because number one, we were, like I explained to the beginning, complete opposites very different from each other. Yeah. And then there’s a age difference between us that you may not know, I’m a lot older. Well, I won’t say a lot cuz I’m still young. But you all are seven, seven years older than I Okay. So, and I’ve been married before, and he’s not been married before. So there are a lot of things that I’ve experienced, that he hasn’t, you know, going into the marriage, I had expectations of him that were simply unreasonable for somebody of his age and never been married before. But I had these expectations. And when he didn’t meet those expectations, I was like, Okay, I made a mistake. I married the wrong person. This is not gonna work. And I was miserable.

13:28
Wow. And when you say Yeah, before you even get to the next thing, because I obviously this turns around, guys, do we know the end of the story, but I love that you share that because I think a lot of people are honestly just too scared to even admit that to them out loud. You know, they don’t want I think a lot of times it tell me if I’m wrong, Wanda, but a lot of times Christians, did you feel like you like this was a secret that you were carrying in your marriage? Or did you were you open with it? Did you tell people I marry the wrong person? This was a secret. It seems

14:01
no. Nobody knew that. Yeah. Nobody knew that. In fact, we were the model cup. Wow, no other couples were coming to us for advice. And you know, we’re counseling and that was even before we had the website. So that was early on in the marriage. Nobody knew that. Nobody.

14:22
And so when you say that you had expectations that he didn’t live up to or didn’t, he just wasn’t the person that you expected of him? I mean, what, what was going on inside of you about that? Like, what expectations were you feeling like you were missing?

14:37
Um, I think because of the type of person that I am. Well, maybe not even the type of person that I am. It may just be a female thing a girl thing could be I expected him to know everything. Oh, yeah. Get him to have all the answers. Yeah, well, my husband and when I come to you about this, you’re supposed to have the answers and you’re supposed to be able to lead this family You’re supposed to this, this and this. And you don’t know this?

15:05
Yeah. So yeah, I think that’s a very common I think you’re absolutely right. Because it’s, that’s a very common like secret fear for women that well, my husband’s disappointing me and my, or my husband’s not like my dad. And my dad was, you know this and that. And then I expected a husband, a man is supposed to be this way. In that way. Do you think your father had some peace in this? Like, who you expected him to be? Or was it something else? No,

15:32
it wasn’t my dad. It was. It was just my, my ideas, I would say I idealistic ideas of what marriage was, yeah, that’s good. When we all when we come into marriage, the majority of us have our own ethics, expectations. Yeah. And unfortunately, most of us, those expectations are built on an unreal realistic idea of what marriage is. Because even though we say we know what we’re doing, and we know what marriage is about, we don’t. And so until we actually get into it, and so I think it just came out of a sense of not really understanding what marriage is.

16:16
Yeah, I love that. Well, and I agree, I think you’re, you’re totally on, on target with this unrealistic expectations thing. And almost our society makes it that way. Because, you know, you see chick flicks all the time. And those are so romantic and so funny, and so cute. And the man does all these wonderful things shows up with roses every other scene, and we assume that’s how our marriage is gonna look like. And that’s we spend, you know, 10 grand on our wedding. And then after everyone leaves, and we’ve got to marry this person, like, so how did? How did you kind of get through this area? Well,

16:56
for me, not just for me, for all of us, there’s a scripture in the Bible that talks about taking every thought captive, yeah, bringing every thought into the obedience of Christ. And I had to learn how to take control of my thoughts. And it wasn’t until I took control of my thoughts, and begin to pull down those thoughts. And replace them with the Word of God, that my attitude towards my husband began to change. Because it’s, the Bible says that out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks, you know, and to guard our hearts, whatever is in our hearts, that’s going to control how we behave. And so in order to deal with what’s in your heart, you got to start by changing the way you think the Bible says to be transformed by the renewing of your mind. So I had to renew my mind. And I had to stop thinking, I married the wrong person. And when those thoughts began to come into my head, I would immediately shut them down and say, No, I’m not going to think that anymore. I, I did not marry the wrong person. I love my husband, he is a gift from God. He is the one that you know, I love and I want to be with. And I just began to talk to myself, and talk to those thoughts that the enemy was sending my way and kept them down. And as soon as I began to do that repeatedly, and control the way I thought, my feelings towards him and my marriage started to change.

18:27
Yeah. Oh, good. That’s cool. That’s very cool. Well, I want to ask you about this idea of the right person and the wrong person in terms of who we marry. So you know, how a lot of times when you grow up when you’re growing up as little girls, it’s like that one, he’s the one for me, that one mentality? Is that something that you think had a part to play in, in your, in your ideas? Like, there’s only one for you that God picks out just that one person?

19:01
My eye is on what can you explain just a little more?

19:05
Yeah. So, me growing up, I always thought that God had a special person picked out for me that I was going to marry and once I found him, then we were all set. And it sounds like you actually have a kind of a cool story of God told you the month and then you met you happen to meet your husband the month that I was married before my current marriage as well. And I think that idea of marrying the one is actually a cultural idea, not a scriptural idea. It’s, um, honestly, it just doesn’t work. Because what if, if you did have one person that you were supposed to marry? You know, then they I guess this is the way I see it, and I would love your ideas. You know what you think? Um, I think that God does sometimes decide, you know, these two people have gone To get together because there are some things that they’re definitely God wants to do specifically through this couple. And that’s I’ve heard people having, you know, the audible voice of God telling him to marry a certain person or it sounds like you had a similar situation to something very, very divine. But for me, I assumed that there’s only one person. So when I married my first husband, I was devastated when, when the marriage turned, horrific, and I got out of it as a divorce. I was so mad at God, because I was like, God, you gave me that one person, why didn’t it work out? And so now I have a different philosophy on I’d love to hear what you think. And what do you think about the the quote unquote, the one for you?

20:44
And I actually agree with what you’re saying. And yeah, I feel the same way. I don’t feel as though there is a one soulmate for everybody. Yeah, if that were the case, then the widowers don’t have a chance of getting married. Because their one and only no longer here, right. I don’t believe that. And the Bible does show us mainly an Old Testament that there were situations where God specifically directed or lead a person to their wife or their husband. No, we see that in Scripture. Yeah. I don’t think that there’s anything in the Word of God that supports the idea that there is one person on the earth for us. Yeah, God gave us free will. That was one of the gifts that He gave us. Yeah, freedom to choose. Yeah, right. Exactly. So I think where relationships are concerned, it’s our choice. And even though the Lord told me what month I was going to meet my husband, it was my choice to say yes to Him. To marry. Yeah, yeah. No, no, I don’t think that there is one person.

22:04
Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s good. Okay. Cuz I think that even like, I know, some singles, even though this is a podcast for married, but some, some also, there’s some mothers that need to be teaching their daughters some of this stuff, because it’s just important to not, you know, it just puts so much pressure on this person who is just as flawed and sinful as you are. You just can’t put that pressure on them that they’re going to be the person that completes your life, quote, unquote, because the truth is, they can’t, Jesus can a person cannot. So Jesus is the one for you. And then deciding if you are going to be married is is a, I think, a journey of wisdom, honestly. And, you know, and then, like I said, there are a handful of exceptions that God definitely needs certain people to get married for certain purposes that he has, and he he shares that with them when they are but for me, I was so scared to get married to my second husband. It’s sad to say that but you know, but I, I really had to learn how to do marriage wrong in order to do marriage. Right. That’s, that’s part of the mission of this whole thing. But anyway, thanks for sharing all that one time. What Any other thoughts you wanted to share about how things turned around? Like I’d love even specifics? Like what was something that happened before with this realization? Like, what are some things that you maybe story of something you would have done before? And then after this realization, what is the way that you do it now?

23:36
Something that I would have done before? And something that I would do now? Well, I think that prior to making the troll of the way that I was thinking about marrying the wrong person, and after I share this, I want to share something else too about Oh, sure. Right or wrong person?

24:01
Oh, one?

24:02
Yeah. Okay. Um, prior to me changing the way that I thought it caused me to withdraw from my husband. Because I was thinking, okay, he’s the wrong one. And I’m back for him. And so I just say what I wanted to say to him, whether it hurt his feelings or not, I was not pleased with him. So whatever, you know, I didn’t care yeah. And sexually, I withdrew from him. I wasn’t trying anymore. I didn’t want to touch me and, you know, laying in the bed like strangers. Yeah. And so of course, and right that created more problems with us and it led to infidelity within our marriage on on my husband, Park. When I changed my thinking, and began to you know, cast down those thoughts and begin to think on the Word of God and read place His Word with my thoughts. My whole attitude towards him began to change and I became more loving. And I began to learn how to love through Christ, and love unconditionally. And realize that both of us, like you said, are flawed. He’s not perfect, but hey, neither are you. And Christ loves you still defame and withdrawing from you, and treating you, you know, with this respect, so how dare you withdraw from your husband is respectful to him. So when I took that turn, it changed the way I spoke to him, you know, I changed how I saw him, I began to respect him more. It changed our level of intimacy, because now I’m attracted to him again, and not withdrawing from him. Oh, those are some specific before and afters.

26:00
Yeah, thanks for the age. Well, and I think that what you shared was so important, for a couple of reasons. I think one thing that I know is just so rampant in our world today is, is Yeah, infidelity in marriage, I guess, outside of a marriage? And, um, how were you able to learning that? And then, I mean, what was the process that you learned of the infidelity for you to actually decide to continue on with a marriage? I mean, that seems incredibly difficult.

26:31
Um, you know, what, I can only say that it was God’s grace was, it wasn’t as difficult for me as it could have been. And the only reason why I think it wasn’t as difficult for me as it could have been, was because at the time it it happened, I was withdrawn from him. And I had already shut down emotionally. You know, and so I wasn’t like, head over heels about my husband at that. I told you, I didn’t even like him. Yeah. So I think that that was, if you want to say the saving grace was I had already detached myself emotionally from him. So when he told me that it didn’t destroy me like it could have. Yeah, it didn’t. It didn’t. It was a wake up call that hey, something’s wrong here. And we need to fix it. totally destroyed me. But at the same time, Bella, strange cat, I, I don’t respond to things, the way that other people would normally respond. I’ve always been that way. I don’t know what to, you know, save the reason for that. Except to say that that’s the way that God created me. And so, you know, I was hurt by it. But I wasn’t like, the marriage is over. We got to force. You know, I hate you type of thing. Oh, okay. We knew that we needed to work some things out. And I think also, because I’ve been married before, unsuccessfully and divorce, that I was determined in this second marriage that this was going to work. And what happened? We’re gonna work this out.

28:20
Yeah. Mm hmm. So when he told you he, I guess was scared to tell you? It’s not that you found out he told you. Yeah, he told me. Wow. And so then, how did you? I mean, what were some steps? I’m just thinking of women that maybe just found out themselves like, what? Maybe a, b, c, and d? Should they do? Or what did you do to get things to a healthier spot? The first

28:50
thing that I had to that I did, and I wouldn’t even say that this was a conscious, a conscious thing that I that I did. But I think the first thing was I realized that what he did was his choice. And that it was not a reflection of who I was as a person. And wasn’t a reflection of me as a wife. Although a lot of times, spouses who cheat, want to blame the other spouse and say, well, it’s your fault. If you hadn’t done this, this and this, then I wouldn’t have, you know, cheated on you. But the truth of the matter is, regardless of what the other person does, you have freewill. And it’s your choice, to cheat to cheat just because somebody does whatever, gives you no right to to go and lay in the bed with somebody else. So it’s not it was your spouse’s choice is that they made? Yeah. The second thing that I had to realize is that if I left my husband Divorce seen him was not going to get rid of the pain that I was feeling. And so divorce itself is painful. And I know that because I’ve been there. Yeah, and especially when you have kids divorce, oh, my goodness, I wouldn’t wish that on anybody. Yeah, this was like the worst experience of my life, because it wasn’t something that you just deal with for a month, especially when you have kids, you deal with this for years. And so the impact of it went on for years. And it was painful for me and for my kids. And so just because the person cheats on you, you don’t have to get a divorce. And divorcing is only going to add more pain to the pain that you’re already feeling. So

30:46
and I want to just interject and underline something that you said which is so powerful. Is that just reiterating your you’re in pain? Because you find out about infidelity? Yes, that is incredibly painful. Your next choice is really your own, whether you’re going to get a divorce, yes, you could. But as Wanda just said, the intense amount of pain that comes with a divorce, and my I myself has been through it myself, is so much an additional to what you’ve already felt it’s not gonna, it’s not going to fix your broken heart just by getting a divorce one, I think that was brilliant. And could you continue on maybe to the third one, if you’re if you’re ready

31:28
for the third thing is knowing that you can survive, it won’t survive it, you can survive it, you hear so many women say going into marriage, that you know, I love my husband. But if he ever cheats on me that is done right through. And so that you have to understand that in marriage, there is no contingency clause, it’s not a contract. It’s a covenant, just like the covenant that we have, with Christ with God. And so in his covenant, there’s no contingency, the covenant is what it is. And if until death do us part and there’s nothing that we can do, that would separate us from the love of God. And therefore there should be nothing that our spouses can do, that would separate us from them, or cause us to reject them. So we have to understand that with God, not in our own strength. Remember, the scripture that I said before His strength is made perfect in our weakness, not in our own strength, but when we rely on Him, then we can begin to understand and know and have confidence that, Hey, God can see us through this and he can heal if we can’t heal ourselves. People say that time heals. No, God heals. God is the healer and the lover of our souls. And if we would just depend on him, he can get us through even infidelity.

32:57
Wow. And it’s Yeah, again, and this is one just saying it from experience, which is incredible. So when so I’m wondering, we do talk a lot about sex on this podcast, because that’s a huge part of, you know, having a fulfilling marriage a lot about sex. I mean, did you say that, you know, certain things needed to be in place before you’re willing to go that way, again, with your husband? Or if you’re willing to share any of that information, but or could you even maybe just guide someone else that may have learned their husband’s infidelity? Like, if you you mentioned that you felt like strangers in your own bedroom? And then he went outside of the marriage? So what, what I mean, what kind of shift happened in that way? And how did it happen? Or how do you think someone else should do it? I guess.

33:52
Um, again, it all points back to God. And really understanding the relationship that Christ has with the church, and all that he puts up with concerning us. Yeah. And even when you think back to go go to the Old Testament, and look at look at the children of Israel, and how unfaithful they are, yes, you know, yeah. And, and again, and again, we read that and we’re like, Oh, my God, just kill them. And, you know, we’re, we get fed up with them just reading the story, but think about Hotshots. So, they continually were unfaithful to him, but continually he went after them continually. He, you know, continued to love them, and wanted them to be his own. And so number one, you have to keep in mind that love is not a feeling. It’s something that we fall in and out of. It’s an action word. It’s something that we do. And so it really doesn’t have have anything to do with how I feel? And I’m not saying that me as a person that I’m insignificant, insignificant, or that what I’m feeling is insignificant. What I’m saying is how I feel cannot be a deciding factor in how I treat my husband. Yeah. So just because I feel like what he did was wrong, and it was doesn’t mean that I have the right to withhold my body from him. And I stand in opposition with God, I’m his word when I do that. So now I’m wrong. So you can’t, yeah, you can’t fix one wrong by, you know, doing another wrong. Yeah. So I think the big thing is that you really have to understand the love of God, what love is, how He loves us unconditionally, and really be committed to not even committed to your husband, because it’s not about that. It’s a god, and committed to doing your marriage God’s way. committed to following his word. Yeah, pleasing God. You have to look past your husband and see God. And your commitment has to be to God even when your husband’s not doing what he’s supposed to do.

36:24
Wow, that’s awesome. That’s, that’s hard. I mean, it’s hard. I mean, yeah. Like, I think we’ve got the theory down, like you’ve given us such good, like rich theology here. But then yeah, to do it. In, in a day to day. Did you have to take like some kind of separation from your husband to get yourself feeling more heels? Or were you willing to just kind of go forward, you know, day by day and try to continue to work together? How did you kind of do that?

36:57
No, we didn’t separate. A big thing for me. And I think a big thing for a lot of us Christian wise, and I think it’s lacking is prayer. We seek prayer for granted. You know, we pray when things are bad, or when you know, we want something. But we really got to get in the habit of going to the Father and just, you know, laying out before him and being naked before him and giving him our hearts and saying, Daddy, this is how I feel if you know what he did you know what he did? You know how I feel God helped me. You helped me to be loving towards him, help me to be the wife that you’ve created me to be? Help me to respond to him the way that I need to respond. Heal my heart, Lord. Prayer is what got me through, you know, that particular season in our life. I didn’t go and talk to anybody. I didn’t have anybody to talk to. Nobody knew that this had happened in our marriage. In fact, most people, including family members didn’t even know anything about this until they went to our website and read it. tell anybody about it. I talked to God about it. And it was God that healed my heart. And it was a daily thing. It wasn’t a every now and then when I think about it. I prayed about it. No, I was on my face every day, praying to God about the situation and not, you know, just talking to God like I’m talking to you right now. Yeah,

38:28
yeah. Yeah. Wow, that’s really good. One day. Yeah. I think that gives people a good sense of even just Yeah, prayer doesn’t have to be this grandiose on your knees, head on the floor, even though I like to pray like that. Sometimes. I mean, it also can be Yeah, just a constant, a conversation. They just start up with the Father, and realize you are talking to the holiest of holies, the most powerful being that made you and loves you and made everything that you’ve ever seen. So I appreciate that encouragement for prayer. Absolutely. And the last thing I want to just kind of pull out of what you talked about how God sees us and the unfaithfulness of our hearts. I love the book of a Hosea. I don’t know of anyone. Yeah. You know, if anyone had not read that book, a basically, God tells Hosea to go and marry a prostitute. Yes. Because he wants Hosea to understand how it feels to be cheated on again and again and again, by Israel. Like basically, that’s what it is. So I love that you brought that out, because that’s exactly right. I mean, how many times have we been unfaithful to God? And, and honestly, ever since this is my second marriage, and we’re gonna move to the next part of the interview in just a second, but since this is my second marriage, I’ve told my husband similar to what Wanda said is that I’ve I’ve told him, Whatever sin whatever you Don’t fall into this kind of thing. Listen, we the point is be honest, just let let we need to talk about it. I don’t, I don’t think you’re above sin. I’m not above sin, you’re not above sin. We’re not above what the enemy might trick us into or whatever. So if you kind of position yourself at a place of, we are a team, we’re gonna fight through it. And my husband has told me literally that that perspective has helped him even in tempting situation, because he’s like, no matter what, I’m going to be open with my wife, and I love her so much. I don’t want to hurt her. It’s not that What am I going to get away with? Or how am I going to hide this from her? She’s going to hear about it because I’ve, I want to share this with her because I don’t want to be carrying this alone. And so I just encourage wives or husbands like realize your spouse is imperfect on on like, they’re, they’re imperfect. They are sitting in areas you might know about whether or not whether it’s gossip, whether it’s judgment, whether it’s actual infidelity or any other thing if you think and put them on this pedestal it might be a it might make it harder to bring out the truth later. Powerful stuff you can tell that you know, just like it says in the Bible, when we’re in our the trials, that’s when the fires go in and the dross goes to the top and gets burned off. I mean, gold is purified in the fire. So if you’re in the fire right now, let one does story just help you to realize that it’s gonna it’s gonna help you I know it doesn’t feel like that. But it’s going to be something that maybe God needed you to understand so that you could help someone else in that exact same spot. I love you. God bless you, and I’ll talk to you on Thursday. Bye.

41:57
Thanks for joining. If you’ve been inspired by this show, would you help spread the word? If you take a moment to review and subscribe others can find us more easily. Find out how to delight your marriage.com forward slash iTunes. Until next time, live with love, wisdom and passion

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Hi there! Belah here. Today, I have with me Luke Gilkerson of covenanteyes.com. First off, Luke talks about how he “fights the evils of pornography” every day for a living. He talks about how this massive industry has alarmingly invaded our homes and polluted the minds of our spouses, friends, and even our children. Luke also discusses about masturbation in children and whether or not this is an okay thing to happen. Listen in as he explains why masturbation happens and what our children are thinking when performing this act. Do they do it willfully or not? Is masturbation an act of immorality? He also shares some tips on how to react to the situation, how to manage your children so that they may be free from this act, and what the scripture says about masturbation.

Scripture/Quote:

• “I have the right to do anything,” you say–but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”–but I will not be mastered by anything. 1 Corinthians 6:12
• “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
• Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. 1 Corinthians 6:8-20
• The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 1 Corinthians 7:4

You’ll Discover:

• Alarming statistics of the scope of the pornography industry today
• Why sex education should not be something that is thought of as dirty, and why it should be taught early in a child’s developmental years
• How to effectively educate your children about their sexuality (what words and approach to use, and the like)
• How to distinguish between exploratory fondling and masturbation
• Tips on what to do when you realize your child has become curious of his sexuality

Books & Resources Mentioned:

• The Talk: 7 Lessons to Introduce Your Child to Biblical Sexuality by Luke Gilkerson
• Intoxicated on Life, Luke and his wife’s blog
• The Josh McDowell Ministry

Tweetables:

• We should never think of sex education as something that is dirty and is limited only to adolescence.
• Kids are naturally curious.
• Parents need to enjoy each other in the home, and kids need to know that their parents are in love with each other.
• Tell your kids: They are private areas of your body, they should not be made public, so you shouldn’t be drawing attention to them by how you touch them; you shouldn’t be exposing them.
• God owns our body; our future spouse has authority over our body.
• It is good for us to get into a mindset of not treating our bodies as if we own them because it’s not truly ours.

Thanks for listening! I hope you are encouraged to live in wholehearted intimacy!

Love,

Belah

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